Justice for Madeleine.....
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53156&highlight=FENCESITTERS
Fencesitters & Not Guilty Post Here - THREAD NO. 3
- Thread starter colomom
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Justice for Madeleine.....
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53156&highlight=FENCESITTERS
christine2448
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Seeker
Former Member
so here it is again. I'm so glad I copied it first!
That's why I try to remember to put "I believe" or "IMO" when I can remember to...
I try to do it this way as often as possible. LOL! It keeps me from getting confused as to what I was responding to! I'm glad to know it was something you wanted as well.
I trust you I was just curious about what was on the links. One seemed to go to another opinion board but said it couldn't find the topic? An accurate timeline is essential in cases like this isn't it.
But did you notice they (PJ) leaked things they thought would be incriminating to the McCanns? I guess I'm a bit suspicious by nature when it comes to stuff like that...they can leak they found it and claim it's Maddies, but no substantiation of those claims...I agree it's frustrating.
I think I'll have to pass on that one...I'm already cheating today by being online when I should be working...shhhh! Don't type too loud...lol
Yes, I totally agree and until there is something tangible one way or the other I'm willing to give the McCanns the benefit of the doubt and think they're innocent. It's not like they found their baby murdered in the basement with a bogus 2 1/2 page ransom note now is it?
That's why I try to remember to put "I believe" or "IMO" when I can remember to...
seeker
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
your post on the last thread should be made a sticky - you put into words many of the things that i have been trying ( badly ) to articulate for a while . I might have to get it pasted up here just so people dont miss it .
it was an excellent post - you know your stuff
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
your post on the last thread should be made a sticky - you put into words many of the things that i have been trying ( badly ) to articulate for a while . I might have to get it pasted up here just so people dont miss it .
it was an excellent post - you know your stuff
seekers post from the last fencesitters thread incase you missed it
Hi yourself there colomom.
Now remember that all this comes from the PD there...
You know how quickly a child can vanish. It only takes about 5 minutes to be 50+ miles away...a theory isn't proof though, it's just an idea, a supposition. It's a stone cold fact that it only takes about 5 minutes to be 50+ miles away from someplace.
The apt and surrounding area was searched thouroughly...you think they would stash Maddie's body someplace that it wouldn't have been found only to dispose of it later? You really think these people are that heartless towards their children?
Quote:
One reason to stay in PDL would be to keep close tabs on the Police and their investigation. Plus, the McCanns said on a number of occasions that they would not return to England without Madeleine. They would look even worse if they then returned without her. They would also look pretty suspicious if they refused to be interviewed by the PJ.
Yeah, and it's also possible that they did stay and look and be cooperative for months because they are innocent too. I think once the PD labeled them and the press started really hounding them they felt it was not safe for them or their children to stay there. I know I wouldn't have been able to tolerate it either.
IMO people who are guilty do not stick around for any length of time. They could have easily returned home right away and just hired private investigators and lawyers to search and speak for them, but they stayed for 4 months...
Quote:
"Then poof about 2 months later the police label them suspects because they don't have anything and can't find anything. IMO it's a way for the police to take the focus off of their inability to crack the case and shift the negative attention to the parents."
What about:
1. In the Ocean Club Apartment
a) cadaver odour was detected by the English dogs behind a couch in the living room, close to a window that leads to the apartments back area
an odor that could have been there for some time before the McCanns were ever even in that room.
Quote:
b) blood (a very small amount) on that windows curtains; the curtains and the wall were washed
well so the resort says it was, however did the blood check out to be Maddies? A simple swab of her parents could prove if it belonged to her or not...
Quote:
c) collected fingerprints belong only to the couple and their friends; there are no fingerprints from Robert Murat, the cases first arguido
big deal, they never found Westerfield's or Couey's prints, or those of that nutjob who took Elizabeth Smart either.
Quote:
d) searches with dogs in the other apartments of the same block at the resort did not yield these results, only the McCanns
yes and how long after the McCanns had already left were those things found?
Quote:
The cadaver odour that was detected by the dogs indicates that the parents were with Madeleine after her death, and therefore must know what happened.
In your opinion right?
Quote:
This because, as they say, they were in the apartment until dinner time, at 8.30 p.m. It takes at least two hours for a corpse to release odours that can be detected by the dogs
I'm not sure where that info came from but according to this site it's usually about 2.5-3 hours. 1/2 hour can make a big differnce. Plus another site says dogs need to be able to be acclimated to the area and temps first. Doesn't say how long that is though.
Quote:
2. In the Renault Scenic car (rented by the McCanns on May 27)
Yeah, weeks after their child vanished....and they were being watched every minute by the press, the PD (in case the kidnapper called or contacted them with a ransom demand) and by locals who would have noticed anything they did. Unless the scent came from the jeans or toy the either the dog was mistaken, or it came from a prior renter.
Quote:
a) cadaver odour was detected by the dogs
b) a very reduced sample of human fluid, in the car boot. After being analysed in Birmingham, this fluid registered, according to the PJs director, Alipio Ribeiro, results that do not allow a 100% correspondence with Maddies genetic profile
c) hair that is compatible with Maddies genetic profile; there is doubt about whether they landed there by transference
Oh please! Not that! That is total propaganda. Her own little siblings hair would be compatible with her genetic profile as would her mothers. That is NOT evidence of any kind since there are too many others it could have belonged to. Human fluid in the boot, could have come from a dirty diaper...or even a little saliva from a bottle or a even a drop of sweat.
Quote:
3. In the Vista Mar villa (rented by the McCanns)
a) cadaver odour, detected by the dogs on clothes that belong to Kate, and on the pink soft toy
b) an English book, normally used by police, that focuses on the different types of crimes, as well as on what clues should be looked for to identify its perpetrators
c) a bible, on Kates bedside table, open at the Old Testament, at the passage that tells the death of King Davids son (God punished David with the death of his son, in order to force him away from sin and to return onto the path of good)
d) Kates diary, in which she writes about daily difficulties, in dealing with her children
I've never seen anything that says a cadaver odor was found there. OMG you mean they can read and write! Quick lock them up!! What mother hasn't had daily difficulties in dealing with 3 small children? An open bible? Gee that's incriminating isn't it? Sorry but when I open a book and leave it sometimes I'll come back and it is not on the same page I opened it to.
Quote:
The cadaver odor especially. The McCanns themselves acknowledged that the dogs alerted as noted. They tried to explain the dogs alerts as "used nappies, rotting meat, etc." They also acknowledged the DNA found and explained that by saying that Amelie used Maddie's sandals and they were sweaty and the sweat (or urine from the "used nappies) explained the DNA found. Kate explained the cadaver odor on cuddle cat and her jeans by saying that she had attended to 6 dead patients prior to her trip. Because the McCanns acknowledged the findings I do not think it can be referred to as propaganda.
You don't think it would be strange for them NOT to get rid of the stuffed doll or jeans if they knew she had them when deceased? You really think these people are that stupid that they wouldn't know that cadaver dogs would be brought in? Didn't the hits in the apt come long after they had left?
It was total propaganda that the PJ stated that they found Maddie's DNA/blood/fluid in the boot of the car BEFORE it was ever even tested if I remember correctly.
Quote:
The Portuguese Police have forensics labs in Lisbon that are very sophisticated. The tests could have been carried out there. However, because the PJ was working so closely with British LE they agreed to have the tests performed at the FSS, one of the finest labs in the world. The British have been directly involved in all aspects of the case and the subsequent investigations. The dogs were provided by the British. It appears to me that the PJ have done everything possible to avoid any kind of improprieties.
Finally, while it is true that Maddie could have been abducted even if her parents had been present, by leaving her alone, in an unlocked apartment, on the ground floor, next to a street, in a foreign country they certainly made it much easier for an "abductor", and by the way, there is absolutely no evidence of an abductor in Apartment 5A on May 3rd.
There was no evidence of an intruder in the case of Daniel vanDam or Jessica Lunsford either but we know for a fact that they were taken by strangers.
I don't know all there is to know about this case, but it's not hard for me to believe that the parents didn't kill and cold heartedly dispose of their beautiful daughter.
BTW your links didn't work for me...and I think you're on the wrong thread there darlin. I don't think they're guilty and nobody is going to change my mind unless they find that baby's body and can prove that one of the parents killed her.
Hi yourself there colomom.
Now remember that all this comes from the PD there...
You know how quickly a child can vanish. It only takes about 5 minutes to be 50+ miles away...a theory isn't proof though, it's just an idea, a supposition. It's a stone cold fact that it only takes about 5 minutes to be 50+ miles away from someplace.
The apt and surrounding area was searched thouroughly...you think they would stash Maddie's body someplace that it wouldn't have been found only to dispose of it later? You really think these people are that heartless towards their children?
Quote:
One reason to stay in PDL would be to keep close tabs on the Police and their investigation. Plus, the McCanns said on a number of occasions that they would not return to England without Madeleine. They would look even worse if they then returned without her. They would also look pretty suspicious if they refused to be interviewed by the PJ.
Yeah, and it's also possible that they did stay and look and be cooperative for months because they are innocent too. I think once the PD labeled them and the press started really hounding them they felt it was not safe for them or their children to stay there. I know I wouldn't have been able to tolerate it either.
IMO people who are guilty do not stick around for any length of time. They could have easily returned home right away and just hired private investigators and lawyers to search and speak for them, but they stayed for 4 months...
Quote:
"Then poof about 2 months later the police label them suspects because they don't have anything and can't find anything. IMO it's a way for the police to take the focus off of their inability to crack the case and shift the negative attention to the parents."
What about:
1. In the Ocean Club Apartment
a) cadaver odour was detected by the English dogs behind a couch in the living room, close to a window that leads to the apartments back area
an odor that could have been there for some time before the McCanns were ever even in that room.
Quote:
b) blood (a very small amount) on that windows curtains; the curtains and the wall were washed
well so the resort says it was, however did the blood check out to be Maddies? A simple swab of her parents could prove if it belonged to her or not...
Quote:
c) collected fingerprints belong only to the couple and their friends; there are no fingerprints from Robert Murat, the cases first arguido
big deal, they never found Westerfield's or Couey's prints, or those of that nutjob who took Elizabeth Smart either.
Quote:
d) searches with dogs in the other apartments of the same block at the resort did not yield these results, only the McCanns
yes and how long after the McCanns had already left were those things found?
Quote:
The cadaver odour that was detected by the dogs indicates that the parents were with Madeleine after her death, and therefore must know what happened.
In your opinion right?
Quote:
This because, as they say, they were in the apartment until dinner time, at 8.30 p.m. It takes at least two hours for a corpse to release odours that can be detected by the dogs
I'm not sure where that info came from but according to this site it's usually about 2.5-3 hours. 1/2 hour can make a big differnce. Plus another site says dogs need to be able to be acclimated to the area and temps first. Doesn't say how long that is though.
Quote:
2. In the Renault Scenic car (rented by the McCanns on May 27)
Yeah, weeks after their child vanished....and they were being watched every minute by the press, the PD (in case the kidnapper called or contacted them with a ransom demand) and by locals who would have noticed anything they did. Unless the scent came from the jeans or toy the either the dog was mistaken, or it came from a prior renter.
Quote:
a) cadaver odour was detected by the dogs
b) a very reduced sample of human fluid, in the car boot. After being analysed in Birmingham, this fluid registered, according to the PJs director, Alipio Ribeiro, results that do not allow a 100% correspondence with Maddies genetic profile
c) hair that is compatible with Maddies genetic profile; there is doubt about whether they landed there by transference
Oh please! Not that! That is total propaganda. Her own little siblings hair would be compatible with her genetic profile as would her mothers. That is NOT evidence of any kind since there are too many others it could have belonged to. Human fluid in the boot, could have come from a dirty diaper...or even a little saliva from a bottle or a even a drop of sweat.
Quote:
3. In the Vista Mar villa (rented by the McCanns)
a) cadaver odour, detected by the dogs on clothes that belong to Kate, and on the pink soft toy
b) an English book, normally used by police, that focuses on the different types of crimes, as well as on what clues should be looked for to identify its perpetrators
c) a bible, on Kates bedside table, open at the Old Testament, at the passage that tells the death of King Davids son (God punished David with the death of his son, in order to force him away from sin and to return onto the path of good)
d) Kates diary, in which she writes about daily difficulties, in dealing with her children
I've never seen anything that says a cadaver odor was found there. OMG you mean they can read and write! Quick lock them up!! What mother hasn't had daily difficulties in dealing with 3 small children? An open bible? Gee that's incriminating isn't it?
Sorry but when I open a book and leave it sometimes I'll come back and it is not on the same page I opened it to. Quote:
The cadaver odor especially. The McCanns themselves acknowledged that the dogs alerted as noted. They tried to explain the dogs alerts as "used nappies, rotting meat, etc." They also acknowledged the DNA found and explained that by saying that Amelie used Maddie's sandals and they were sweaty and the sweat (or urine from the "used nappies) explained the DNA found. Kate explained the cadaver odor on cuddle cat and her jeans by saying that she had attended to 6 dead patients prior to her trip. Because the McCanns acknowledged the findings I do not think it can be referred to as propaganda.
You don't think it would be strange for them NOT to get rid of the stuffed doll or jeans if they knew she had them when deceased? You really think these people are that stupid that they wouldn't know that cadaver dogs would be brought in? Didn't the hits in the apt come long after they had left?
It was total propaganda that the PJ stated that they found Maddie's DNA/blood/fluid in the boot of the car BEFORE it was ever even tested if I remember correctly.
Quote:
The Portuguese Police have forensics labs in Lisbon that are very sophisticated. The tests could have been carried out there. However, because the PJ was working so closely with British LE they agreed to have the tests performed at the FSS, one of the finest labs in the world. The British have been directly involved in all aspects of the case and the subsequent investigations. The dogs were provided by the British. It appears to me that the PJ have done everything possible to avoid any kind of improprieties.
Finally, while it is true that Maddie could have been abducted even if her parents had been present, by leaving her alone, in an unlocked apartment, on the ground floor, next to a street, in a foreign country they certainly made it much easier for an "abductor", and by the way, there is absolutely no evidence of an abductor in Apartment 5A on May 3rd.
There was no evidence of an intruder in the case of Daniel vanDam or Jessica Lunsford either but we know for a fact that they were taken by strangers.
I don't know all there is to know about this case, but it's not hard for me to believe that the parents didn't kill and cold heartedly dispose of their beautiful daughter.
BTW your links didn't work for me...and I think you're on the wrong thread there darlin.
I don't think they're guilty and nobody is going to change my mind unless they find that baby's body and can prove that one of the parents killed her.
april4sky
It is not who is right, but what is right, that is
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I completely agree great posts seeker. I wish I could have said it half as well. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Pinkhammer
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Someone has got a new job...working for Clarence!
who do you mean ? be more specific please
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