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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    1,393
    Hats off and a bow to you, Carl, for a job well done!! Another lost soul now has now been identified because of you. You rock!

  2. #17
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    Nov 2009
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    I just got a call from Lt. Tony Cuevas to thank me for the tip. He says that right after getting my voicemail, he received a call from Steven Kurtz (to whom I sent an e-mail last night). He is forwarding the dental records to Dallas, and hopefully they should get a positive ID promptly. Troy didn't have an arrest record, so they had no fingerprints to compare.

    He had put all of the info in NCIC, but did not get a hit. He said that he didn't know about NamUs, but was very complementary of how the system is put together. I suggested that if he had any other MP's, he should list them in NamUs.

    He said that the decedent died of a heroin overdose. He also mentioned that Troy's mother reported him missing after he moved to Dallas from Michigan. He apparently was an intelligent responsible person before going to Dallas, but he got involved with drugs and his life spiraled out of control.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-20-2011 at 03:36 PM.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Northeast USA
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    interesting. Troy's Namus page said fingerprints were available. does not mean an arrest though. might have been done for professional clearance for a job.

    in any event, I'm pretty sure this is a match if for no other reasons the Chinese character tat, the general similarity of appearance and the time frame.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    941
    Great Match, awesome job Carl! Hopefully his family can find some closure if this does turn out to be him, which I'm thinking is the case.
    Unwritten--I'm undefined... I'm just beginning, the pen's in my hand, ending unplanned..."

  5. #20
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    Nov 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrocket View Post
    interesting. Troy's Namus page said fingerprints were available. does not mean an arrest though. might have been done for professional clearance for a job.

    in any event, I'm pretty sure this is a match if for no other reasons the Chinese character tat, the general similarity of appearance and the time frame.
    Not just the Chinese character tatt, but the other tatts as well.

    From Troy's NamUs MP page:

    Left calf -a American flag flying backwards
    Right thigh - red Cuda car with flames coming out back and a person screaming out the driver's window
    From christine2448's post (#4 above) - Photos of the UID's tattoos:

    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-06-2012 at 09:46 PM.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Coastal California
    Posts
    684
    Great job, Carl! I'm confident that this UID is Troy.

    (I think it was you who said in another thread that the height can be plus or minus 3 inches - so I always keep that in mind when trying to match UIDs.)

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Northeast USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayqueen View Post
    Great job, Carl! I'm confident that this UID is Troy.

    (I think it was you who said in another thread that the height can be plus or minus 3 inches - so I always keep that in mind when trying to match UIDs.)
    I think the record for a match from WS height discrepancy was a full 4". that was snuf, right?

  8. #23
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    Nov 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayqueen View Post
    Great job, Carl! I'm confident that this UID is Troy.

    (I think it was you who said in another thread that the height can be plus or minus 3 inches - so I always keep that in mind when trying to match UIDs.)
    I don't think you can make a set rule based on this situation. It was an intact body, so they should have gotten the UID's height right. For skeletal remains, I would think a 3 inch margin on both sides should be sufficient.

    In this case, I think someone just screwed up (either on the MP side or the UID side). You can't set a rule to use in future situations based on the possibility that someone screwed up. A screw-up can be by any amount.

    But It's not unusual for a family member not to know exactly how tall the MP is. I've seen plenty of height discrepancies that I prefer not to even set a height parameter on my screen. I end up with more possibles to review, but I'm less likely to miss an obvious match like this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by webrocket View Post
    I think the record for a match from WS height discrepancy was a full 4". that was snuf, right?
    With Snufamonboball's match of Robert Donlick to the NYC Ferryboat jumper, there was a 4-inch height discrepancy.


    ETA: Here's a perfect example of what I was talking about. Just this morning, I saw a new MP casefile in NamUs:

    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/12707/25

    He is listed as 55-60 inches (which computes to 4'7" to 5'0"). That is clearly incorrect. In his photo he is standing in front of a guardrail, the top of which is below his waistline. They probably meant 5'5" to 6'0" (which would compute to 65-72 inches). I kicked off an e-mail to the NamUs case manager suggesting that she double-check the info.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-20-2011 at 09:13 PM.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    9,241
    Wow, Carl, incredible work. That is amazing.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Chicago burbs
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    74,781
    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    I just got a call from Lt. Tony Cuevas to thank me for the tip. He says that right after getting my voicemail, he received a call from Steven Kurtz (to whom I sent an e-mail last night). He is forwarding the dental records to Dallas, and hopefully they should get a positive ID promptly. Troy didn't have an arrest record, so they had no fingerprints to compare.

    He had put all of the info in NCIC, but did not get a hit. He said that he didn't know about NamUs, but was very complementary of how the system is put together. I suggested that if he had any other MP's, he should list them in NamUs.

    He said that the decedent died of a heroin overdose. He also mentioned that Troy's mother reported him missing after he moved to Dallas from Michigan. He apparently was an intelligent responsible person before going to Dallas, but he got involved with drugs and his life spiraled out of control.

    BBM. Excellent, Carl! I'm not only excited about the match (and I have no doubts this is a match), I'm really happy to hear Lt. Cuevas' complimentary words on NamUs. Fantastic that you were able to educate another LEO on the benefits of NamUs!

    I'm also sorry to hear about the victims troubles with drugs.

    Prayers for the family as they await identification.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

    You can now purchase Mr. Harrod's Disappeared episode through Amazon, iTunes or YouTube.


  11. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chicago burbs
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    Any news on this match yet Carl? I wonder if the dentals were sent electronically, overnight or snail mail.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

    You can now purchase Mr. Harrod's Disappeared episode through Amazon, iTunes or YouTube.

  12. #27
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    Nov 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post


    Any news on this match yet Carl? I wonder if the dentals were sent electronically, overnight or snail mail.
    Nothing yet. But I've been watching. Both the MP and the UID cases are still active in NamUs.

    Many of these offices don't have a Forensic Odontologist on their full-time staff sitting around waiting for something to do. Many FO's are full-time dentists who have to be called for forensic work in when it is needed. So I am speculating that there might be a few days of delay to set an appointment with a FO.

  13. #28
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    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chicago burbs
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    MP and UID links are still showing active at NamUs.

    I wonder what the hold up is, it will be two weeks tomorrow.
    Hoping to get some updated news on this match soon.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

    You can now purchase Mr. Harrod's Disappeared episode through Amazon, iTunes or YouTube.

  14. #29
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    Nov 2009
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    El Segundo, California
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post


    MP and UID links are still showing active at NamUs.

    I wonder what the hold up is, it will be two weeks tomorrow.
    Hoping to get some updated news on this match soon.
    I'll give it another week, and call them back if I don't hear anything by then. I don't want to start badgering them too soon for fear that I might sound like the little kid in the back seat on a long road-trip whining "are we there yet?".

  15. #30
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    Jun 2007
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio
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    714
    Great job, Carl. Just goes to prove that even with both cases in there, we can leave no stone unturned, as even obvious matches can be sitting side by side in the database unnoticed. Hopefully official word comes down soon!
    I can't complain but sometimes I still do. Life's been good to me so far. - Joe Walsh

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