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  1. #1

    CA - Lawrence 'Larry' King, 15, fatally shot at Oxnard school, 12 Feb 2008

    Didn't see this on here yet. Sorry if I missed it. This case has been receiving unbeliveably little coverage.


    14-year-old is charged in shooting of Oxnard classmate

    Ventura County prosecutors charged a 14-year-old boy with the shooting death of a classmate Thursday and said the killing in an Oxnard classroom was a premeditated hate crime.

    [snip]

    But classmates of the slain boy, Lawrence King, said he recently had started to wear makeup and jewelry and had proclaimed himself gay. Several students said King and a group of boys, including the defendant, had a verbal confrontation concerning King's sexual orientation a day before the killing.

    Much more at link: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,7663055.story

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho4Groenes View Post
    Didn't see this on here yet. Sorry if I missed it. This case has been receiving unbeliveably little coverage.


    14-year-old is charged in shooting of Oxnard classmate

    Ventura County prosecutors charged a 14-year-old boy with the shooting death of a classmate Thursday and said the killing in an Oxnard classroom was a premeditated hate crime.

    [snip]

    But classmates of the slain boy, Lawrence King, said he recently had started to wear makeup and jewelry and had proclaimed himself gay. Several students said King and a group of boys, including the defendant, had a verbal confrontation concerning King's sexual orientation a day before the killing.

    Much more at link: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,7663055.story


    It's got tons of coverage locally in Southern California (It also happened the same week of a SWAT team member's death)

    Here's the thing - and I'll don my flame retardant vest - in January SB777 went into effect here - it makes it pretty difficult in the schools to even say "homosexuality is wrong" even if that's your belief. (http://dailywhackjob.com/index.php/2...ifornia-sb777/)

    My understanding by watching some of the kids being interviewed on the local news is that the kid who did the killing was bullied by these other kids. Who were pretty expressive in their sexual orientation.

    I'm NOT excusing the kid that shot the other one. I don't think 14 year old boys are necessarily equipped or taught how to overcome bullying by protected classes. It's bad enough when girls tease boys - but a boy in makeup, nailpolish, dresses, etc teasing and mocking another boy??

    It's a bad deal all around. One family is mourning a very tragic loss, another child has ruined his life. (And I don't know if I'm thinking of another story, but the kid who shot the other one, may be a foster kid). Where does a kid go in that situation?

  3. #3
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    The boy who was killed, King, was the one who was a foster kid and living at Casa Pacifica, a shelter for abused and troubled children. My guess is his family kicked him out for being gay as it says his father had "no comment".

    "King was a foster child living at Casa Pacifica, a shelter for abused and troubled children in Camarillo.

    Steven Elson, executive director at Casa Pacifica, said he could not discuss how long King had lived there or the circumstances involving his removal from his family.

    But Elson said King had made many friends on the sprawling residential campus and that many of the children were grieving his loss.

    "It's been a sad couple of days here," Elson said.

    King's father, who lives in Oxnard, declined to comment."
    Link:
    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...5.story?page=1
    Laskey said King was happy at Casa Pacifica, although he had to take a long bus ride to and from school every day. He said he grew up in a troubled home, she said.

    "He never felt like he had a family, but he told me when he got to Casa Pacifica that he had one there," Laskey said."
    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...5.story?page=2

    This poor boy did not deserve to die, no matter what sexual orientation he was.
    I am wondering if the boy who shot him, was friends with him before King started dressing femme; maybe out of homophobia he shot him, fearing that others would think he was gay if he associated with King in the past.
    I just feel bad for this poor boy, he came from a troubled home to begin with, never felt like he had a family until he got to Casa Pacifica. Then his real father declines to comment, as if he doesn't even care his son is dead. =(

  4. #4
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    This has been covered here because it is considered *local*. I had no idea it wasn't getting national coverage. terrible story.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by justche View Post
    It's got tons of coverage locally in Southern California (It also happened the same week of a SWAT team member's death)

    Here's the thing - and I'll don my flame retardant vest - in January SB777 went into effect here - it makes it pretty difficult in the schools to even say "homosexuality is wrong" even if that's your belief. (http://dailywhackjob.com/index.php/2...ifornia-sb777/)

    My understanding by watching some of the kids being interviewed on the local news is that the kid who did the killing was bullied by these other kids. Who were pretty expressive in their sexual orientation.

    I'm NOT excusing the kid that shot the other one. I don't think 14 year old boys are necessarily equipped or taught how to overcome bullying by protected classes. It's bad enough when girls tease boys - but a boy in makeup, nailpolish, dresses, etc teasing and mocking another boy??

    It's a bad deal all around. One family is mourning a very tragic loss, another child has ruined his life. (And I don't know if I'm thinking of another story, but the kid who shot the other one, may be a foster kid). Where does a kid go in that situation?
    You don't need a flame-retardant vest, but it is customary to provide some sort of source for affirmative claims such as yours that the shooter had been overwhelmed by "bullying by a protected class".

    And your point is what, that if only homophobic children were allowed rant to their hatred openly, then poor, picked-on heterosexuals wouldn't have to resort to shooting?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    You don't need a flame-retardant vest, but it is customary to provide some sort of source for affirmative claims such as yours that the shooter had been overwhelmed by "bullying by a protected class".

    And your point is what, that if only homophobic children were allowed rant to their hatred openly, then poor, picked-on heterosexuals wouldn't have to resort to shooting?
    Well it was on the LA news last night - can't tell you which one - it was either ABC or NBC -

    If that's what you read into my post, then you're projecting -
    I despise that people call objection to homosexuality as homophobic. I reject that entirely. It's propaganda and used to put people on the defensive.

    I clearly said there was no excuse for one boy shooting another.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by justche View Post
    Well it was on the LA news last night - can't tell you which one - it was either ABC or NBC -
    Well, here's the problem: it's pretty extreme to blame a murder victim, but we have no way of evalutating that report, since we don't know where it came from or what it said. (For the record, I'm sure you heard something. I never meant to suggest you were making it up.)

    If that's what you read into my post, then you're projecting -
    I did you the courtesy of actually reading what you wrote and responding to it. If you feel I drew the wrong conclusion, please feel free to point out where I erred. But I'd suggest you avoid the psychological concept of "projection," or at least look it up, because you don't seem to know what it means.

    You wrote the following:

    "Here's the thing ... in January SB777 went into effect here - it makes it pretty difficult in the schools to even say "homosexuality is wrong" even if that's your belief."

    Since you assert that passage of SB777 is "the thing" in the aftermath of this tragedy, it's quite reasonable for one to wonder whether you are saying that the stifling of homophobic speech somehow must end in the eruption of homicidal violence against gays. I agree it seems a ridiculous assertion, but if you had some other point, I don't see it.

    I despise that people call objection to homosexuality as homophobic. I reject that entirely. It's propaganda and used to put people on the defensive.
    You don't specify what you mean by "homosexuality." If you mean sexual orientation, then objection is akin to objecting to some people's tendency to choose vanilla ice cream.

    If you mean same-sex sexual behavior, then I really don't see how it is any of your business. (Unless we're speaking of rape, in which case we all object.)

    It wasn't a gay person who first suggested that heterosexual "objection" to same-sex orientation and behavior was based on a deep and irrational fear. But until I hear a rational reason for such an objection, I'll have to assume it's based on some sort of fear, just as all irrational hatred and prejudice.

    I clearly said there was no excuse for one boy shooting another.
    You did indeed. But you also bemoan the loss of a climate of hatred in which impressionable young people have all too often concluded that killing gay people is socially acceptable. Unfortunately, people--especially teenagers--get confused when we give them mixed messages.

  8. #8
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    This poor boy lost his life, it doesn't make a difference what sexuality he was. We need to teach tolerance to our youth, not hatred.
    Nova, thank you for the needed corrections on this thread.
    Homosexual youth have the highest suicide rate, and it's no wonder why, with the way some kids tease one another, bully, and are unaccepting in general.
    People tend to fear what they do not understand whether it be race, then we have racists, or homophobic people, who fear homosexuals. Then we have people who hate those who are different due to an experience they hate regarding an individual (example a rich person, a latino, a gay person, the list goes on). Some people will take one bad experience and link it to a whole entire group. That is where the "phobias" come in.
    I don't want to take away from this case. I'm surprised it's not getting more attention, as the ages of the boys involved are both young; 14, and 15.
    Where did the boy who shot the other get access to a gun? What is his home life like? What compelled him to shoot another child? We need to be teaching tolerance and acceptance rather than hatred.

  9. #9
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    "Prosecutors have charged 14-year-old Brandon McInerney with murder and a hate crime against King, who told friends he was teased because he was gay. McInerney, who is being tried as an adult, has not yet entered a plea and remains in custody in lieu of $770,000 bail."

    http://www.venturacountystar.com/new...-15-year-olds/

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    This whole story is confusing to me and then with people correcting each other which took up most of the thread makes it is even worse and un-necessary.

    I think every school should have rules about bullying other kids whether it is over the way they dress, look, or talk, etc. There is no room for bullys in any school. I would like to know what happened up to the point that this boy was shot. It was the boy that was painting his nails, etc, that was shot? You would think that the boy who was painting his nails would have been the one that shot the other kid for bullying him. So one kid shot the other because he didn't like the fact that the boy was painting his nails and dressing differently?

    Did the killer go to school that day planning to kill the other boy? He did carry a gun to school with him so something must have been on his mind. Is the 15 yr old dead or alive? He will probably be tried as an adult. This kid has no chance by the sound of it. He will probably spend the rest of his life in prison where there will be a lot of people that are different.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeoW333 View Post
    This poor boy lost his life, it doesn't make a difference what sexuality he was. We need to teach tolerance to our youth, not hatred.
    Nova, thank you for the needed corrections on this thread.
    Homosexual youth have the highest suicide rate, and it's no wonder why, with the way some kids tease one another, bully, and are unaccepting in general.
    People tend to fear what they do not understand whether it be race, then we have racists, or homophobic people, who fear homosexuals. Then we have people who hate those who are different due to an experience they hate regarding an individual (example a rich person, a latino, a gay person, the list goes on). Some people will take one bad experience and link it to a whole entire group. That is where the "phobias" come in.
    I don't want to take away from this case. I'm surprised it's not getting more attention, as the ages of the boys involved are both young; 14, and 15.
    Where did the boy who shot the other get access to a gun? What is his home life like? What compelled him to shoot another child? We need to be teaching tolerance and acceptance rather than hatred.
    Well put and well asked.

    For the record here, I have a problem with charging any 14-year-old as an adult, and there is nothing about the circumstances as reported so far that justify charging this particular teenager as an adult. If the killing was indeed a gay-hate crime, I am even more uncomfortable with the charge. Children don't invent prejudice without help from grown-ups.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobbisangel View Post
    This whole story is confusing to me and then with people correcting each other which took up most of the thread makes it is even worse and un-necessary.

    I think every school should have rules about bullying other kids whether it is over the way they dress, look, or talk, etc. There is no room for bullys in any school. I would like to know what happened up to the point that this boy was shot. It was the boy that was painting his nails, etc, that was shot? You would think that the boy who was painting his nails would have been the one that shot the other kid for bullying him. So one kid shot the other because he didn't like the fact that the boy was painting his nails and dressing differently?

    Did the killer go to school that day planning to kill the other boy? He did carry a gun to school with him so something must have been on his mind. Is the 15 yr old dead or alive? He will probably be tried as an adult. This kid has no chance by the sound of it. He will probably spend the rest of his life in prison where there will be a lot of people that are different.
    I'm sorry you found my "corrections" confusing and unnecessary. I think some ideas have to be challenged.

    As near as I can tell, Justche heard some kids on TV news claim that the murder victim had previously bullied the shooter.

    But none of the rest of us heard that report and the only bullying mentioned in the links we have says the victim himself had been teased (though not necessarily by the shooter). So I can't judge the credibility of the claim. I'm not suggesting Justche made it up; I just don't know whether to believe what s/he heard or whether to think it was a factor in the crime.

    I suppose it's possible the shooter brought a gun to school for some other purpose and then decided for some reason to shoot the victim. But it seems likely the gun was brought for that purpose.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobbisangel View Post
    This whole story is confusing to me and then with people correcting each other which took up most of the thread makes it is even worse and un-necessary.

    I think every school should have rules about bullying other kids whether it is over the way they dress, look, or talk, etc. There is no room for bullys in any school. I would like to know what happened up to the point that this boy was shot. It was the boy that was painting his nails, etc, that was shot? You would think that the boy who was painting his nails would have been the one that shot the other kid for bullying him. So one kid shot the other because he didn't like the fact that the boy was painting his nails and dressing differently?

    Did the killer go to school that day planning to kill the other boy? He did carry a gun to school with him so something must have been on his mind. Is the 15 yr old dead or alive? He will probably be tried as an adult. This kid has no chance by the sound of it. He will probably spend the rest of his life in prison where there will be a lot of people that are different.
    A lot of good questions. It was the boy that was painting his nails and dressing differently, Lawrence, that was shot by the other. He did not die right away, but did die later at the hospital.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    I'm sorry you found my "corrections" confusing and unnecessary. I think some ideas have to be challenged.

    As near as I can tell, Justche heard some kids on TV news claim that the murder victim had previously bullied the shooter.

    But none of the rest of us heard that report and the only bullying mentioned in the links we have says the victim himself had been teased (though not necessarily by the shooter). So I can't judge the credibility of the claim. I'm not suggesting Justche made it up; I just don't know whether to believe what s/he heard or whether to think it was a factor in the crime.

    I suppose it's possible the shooter brought a gun to school for some other purpose and then decided for some reason to shoot the victim. But it seems likely the gun was brought for that purpose.
    Nova, I found your "corrections" offensive as well. Often, I update stories with local reports that have no online source, just as Justche did in this case. That doesn't mean she/he endorsed what was reported, but just reported what she/he heard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by justche View Post
    Nothing at all like bullying and completely misstating what I've said. Shame on you for your outright dishonesty.
    I see no dishonesty in Nova's post, I see an attempt at clarity. Accusing a fellow (articulate, thoughtful and respected) poster of "outright dishonesty" is what is shameful here.

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