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  1. #151
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    Roy, it’s a theory that makes about as much sense as anything else does. More sense, in fact, than some I’ve heard.
    Of course, it doesn’t necessarily exclude the possibility, however remote, that JG might have been alive for months or years after his disappearance. I found a Feb. 29, 1984 article when I googled “Johnny gosch” in the news archives. I believe it talked of the 1983 Oklahoma incident, but I can’t say for sure because the text was garbled and incomplete when I actually went to the link. We were not amused.
    But anyway, thus far my search has not uncovered anything that might have suggested that Bonacci might have glommed onto some personal info about JG. I’m seriously thinking of making this case even more of an avocation/obsession than I’ve managed to make it already and do some old-fashioned research in the Minneapolis library. What I’m after, assuming its existence, is anything having to do with what JG was like. I.e., what was his personality like? What were his quirks? Tell me more about the stutter, the yoga, the favorite Mexican restaurant. And, BTW, when was this info, by dint of research, public knowledge? If bonacci started making rumblings of his involvement with JG in ’89, as I’m pretty sure he did, logic dictates that he, or anyone else, for that matter, could have uncovered the more personal stuff about the boy if it could have been found in news articles, documentaries, film clippings, etc. Library’s closed right now, so maybe making it into a Saturday affair next weekend should do it. I’m wondering whether the library might also be able to get me some actual news footage or whatever. I believe JG’s case was even featured on the Donahue show back in the Dark Ages. And I know I saw it on that show Hour Magazine with Gary Collins. In fact, they did a whole show devoted to missing kids back at the height of the festivities. This is why I’m wondering if anyone has ever seen JG’s parents together on some of these old footages. What with the focus at times on the father, one might be able to interpret his body language, facial tics, whatever. Like I said, I remember them being very together on wanting to find their boy, so you could’ve knocked me over with a feather when I found out they’d divorced and that she suspected her ex of having something to do with the disappearance.
    So I just have to wonder: Did someone have a breakdown? I’m assuming the worst of all possible cases where the mental health of a parent of a missing child is concerned. I mean, whatever happened to JG, it was probably tragic enough to have sent NG over the edge. In that vein, if, for instance, the ’97 visit, which is uncorroborated by independent sources, didn’t happen, maybe she somehow dreamed the whole thing and really, really believes that it happened. And maybe Gosch Sr. really didn’t get another woman to impersonate his wife when they met with Bonacci. Maybe she was actually there, but she doesn’t remember because she finally broke. Just something I’ve wondered on and off over the past several weeks.
    And something else just occurred to me out of the blue. Again it goes back to the allegation that JG’s father was involved with the disappearance — specifically alerting the abductors that his son was going to be alone. Again, not having read the book, I have to ask where’s the motive? Was it monetary? It’s a thought, but would there be any way to ascertain whether or not he suddenly came into a large chunk of change shortly after JG vanished? Of course, that’s probably something a police detective should have looked into long ago, but nobody probably did, and now it’s a bit late in the game.
    And so the beat goes on. Nobody wins. Nothing is resolved. JG is still gone, and there are no definitive answers. I just wonder what NG might do if presented with incontrovertible DNA evidence from the corpse of her son, assuming it’s ever discovered, and assuming that JG is in fact dead. I personally don’t think she’d accept it, but I dunno what I’m talkin’ ‘bout.

  2. #152
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    Dorca - you said:
    "What I’m after, assuming its existence, is anything having to do with what JG was like. I.e., what was his personality like? What were his quirks? Tell me more about the stutter, the yoga, the favorite Mexican restaurant. And, BTW, when was this info, by dint of research, public knowledge? If bonacci started making rumblings of his involvement with JG in ’89, as I’m pretty sure he did, logic dictates that he, or anyone else, for that matter, could have uncovered the more personal stuff about the boy if it could have been found in news articles, documentaries, film clippings, etc."

    I certainly encourage your search, nevertheless I don't think there's as much "ooo-eee-ooo" to the personal information about Johnny that many people have claimed to possess and I'll tell you why.

    The Eugene Martin case makes a good contrast to the Gosch case. When a child goes missing, and law enforcement persuades the parents to allow them to control the flow of information about the case - as appears to be the case with Eugene Martin - what information do we the public get access to? Essentially diddly-squat, right? No more details about the case or the victim than police deem necessary for immediate public intervention in the form of tips.

    Its the parent's choice, though. In the case of Noreen Gosch, she felt frustrated by police procedure (and perhaps, lack of interest) and took matters into her own hands early on. She deliberately broadcast information about the case, and her son, to anyone who would listen. Who knows how many people she discussed all that personal info about Johnny and his life with, over the years? On top of that, we have Johnny's siblings and friends - if Noreen isn't keeping Johnny's personal info under wraps why should they feel obliged to? Potentially, hundreds of people could have possessed the kind of information that Bonacci or "Jimmy Gibson" claimed to have, within a few years of unrestricted gossip networking, all over the midwest, even without the help of mass media.

    And then there's Paul Bishop again. He seems a very likely person for Noreen Gosch to have confided every last detail about Johnny to, and we have no idea what he was doing after he dropped out of her life in 1984 or '85. Perhaps he ended up in prison in neighboring Nebraska and met Paul Bonacci there? We just don't/can't know at this time.

    But the fact that a person Noreen has never met before would possess personal details about Johnny and his life doesn't awe me in any way, It's clear that she didn't guard that info the way police would have had they been in charge of controlling the flow of info about the case.
    Last edited by Roy Harrold; 04-12-2008 at 09:55 PM. Reason: spelling

  3. #153
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    While I'm at it, I might as well confront this also: uncorroborated inferences by Noreen Gosch that her ex-husband was acting suspiciously and therefore might have had something to do with the abduction of Johnny.

    I've never called Noreen a nut (and I'm not saying anyone else has). Anyone is welcome to search the threads here, they won't find such a statement authored by me. What I have said, several times, is that she is a genuine hero of the early missing child recovery movement.

    But heroes sometimes make mistakes and lose such standing in the eyes of the public. It's tragic, but it happens.

    In the case of Noreen Gosch, it is clear that she has turned people who hurt her or failed her in some way into potential suspects in the pedophile ring conspiracy she alleges took her son away. This has gone on right up to the present - when she began receiving photos that might have been of her son, she asked police to help. When the police didn't end up supporting her version of reality in regard to the photos she accused the local police of incompetence and Investigator Zalva of being "part of the conspiracy"!

    This is witch-hunting behaviour, and I can't respect it nor people who engage in it. The whole "Franklin cover-up" is itself a witch-hunting exercise. It started out, as the Franklin Grand Jury stated, with the perpetrating of a "carefully constructed hoax" in which John DeCamp was accused by the Jury of inserting himself for "personal political gain and revenge" against his personal enemies in the community. Long after the case lost it's potential to make him wealthy through $110 million dollar lawsuits, DeCamp has pursued it as a witch-hunting vehicle.

    And it continues even now. If you are an outspoken critic of the conspiracy theories surrounding the case you risk being turned into a character in that conspiracy by vengeful True Believers, in forums all over the net that allow such open slander of innocents (of which this site is not one, thankfully).

    It's twisted, juvenile behaviour and I'm deeply disappointed that Noreen Gosch has apparently engaged in it.
    Last edited by Roy Harrold; 04-12-2008 at 10:38 PM. Reason: spelling

  4. #154
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    Pleeeeze.....the fact is, the Franklin Scandal began with a couple foster children who were molested and reported it (and of course, the disaster of the Credit Union, which coincided). From there, the case grew. You can call it whatever you wish, but many important individuals truly believe that these kids (and others) were abused and the perps were able to use their power to cover it up.

    Maybe John DeCamp stood something to gain? Well, he hasn't gained, has he? He sold a few books and speaks from time to time about this case but its not known as a big money-making business.

    Most of the people who believe what you call a "conspiracy," believe there was a cover-up and it happened because the victims were portrayed as you have said "thieves and prostitutes" who would call their grandmother "Adolf Hitler" for a gram of cocaine....sound familiar? Thats because you said something like that about one of these victims....(and yes, he was a victim, who is dead now and can't defend himself or his grandmother).

    Just because I, or others, believe this happened does not make us "juvenile," or ignorant....

    I respect your opinion but it honestly infuriates me when you start name-calling. People aren't wooden pegs to be fit into neat categories.....stop trying to hammer every "True Believer" (as you say) into the same square whole.


    No one has accused YOU of being in on any conspiracies that I know of....but those who continually degrade the opinion of others risk whatever comes their way.

    You can rant about "slander" all you want....but you have done a good job of it yourself, buddy.
    Last edited by shefner; 04-12-2008 at 10:58 PM. Reason: clarification

  5. #155
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    I stand by my statements in post #153.

  6. #156
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    Just for the record,if Johnny is still alive I would be thrilled to be proven wrong.I hope He really is.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Harrold View Post
    Before this thread morphs into a discussion of "The Finders"/"Project Monarch"/MK-ultra zombies - let me attempt to cut to the chase...

    Shadow - is it your opinion that "Paul Bishop" was really working "on behalf of the CIA" when he contacted Noreen Gosch?

    I thought your previous reference to him was quite rational, but you haven't answered my question as to your opinion on what he was really "up to" at that time?
    For starters, and just to clarify, my reason for posting the finders bit was to refute your assertion that the CIA has not investigated anything to do with child pornography/sex rings prior to 1999.

    That being said, I have mixed feelings about what role GPB may (or not) have played in Johnny's disappearance. What I do find interesting are a couple of things. Here's a "budding" [ep]hebephile who a) shows up out of the blue and b) (so Noreen alleges) claims to be a "CIA asset." The problem is, Noreen's claim came out in her book, "Why Johnny Can't Come Home" which was not published until nearly a decade after the Franklin bit. Which leads me to believe she not only inferred but also embellished GPB's statement...

    "I work for a government agency which is investigating pedophile organizations."
    ...that the man worked for the CIA, when said agency could have just as easily been the United States Postal Service (who does actually play a role in child pornography investigations). Nonetheless, I personally doubt he even worked for USPS, much less the CIA. Esp since statements such as the above are designed to present an illusion of authority. Even so, this man's presence raises the question wrt whether he and his (at the time) accomplices were involved in kidnapping Johnny. As you no doubt know, serial rapists, killers, etcetera, tend to closely monitor investigatory progress, which includes but is not limited to getting close to the victim's family on false pretenses.

    Interestingly (or perhaps not so), GPB has been historically known to invite his "to be" victims to "party" at a local hotel, drug & sexually abuse them, and then pay a visit to the victim's parents after the fact—claiming to be LE, that the teen engaged in illegal behavior, and that he is letting the teen off easy by alerting the parents rather than taking the teen to juvie. Although the goal may seem transparently obvious (i.e., preempting sexual abuse allegations), GPB's wholly unnecessary post-abuse visit to the victims' parents leads me to believe it is part of his 'fetish' so to speak—that he gets off on extending the teen's victimization into their home.

    While this scenario may seem to fall flat on its face due to the lack of even the tiniest whisper of him having ever been involved in child abductions, imho, GPB's historically brazen and patternistic behavior certainly raises him as a legitimate candidate wrt Johnny's disappearance. And, even if he was not directly involved in the abduction, I would venture to guess that his visit with Noreen could have been a prepatory exercise, so to speak, by his "trainers"—a result that would lead to a life-long indellible pattern of post-abuse visits to his future victims' families.

    And finally, if it did turn out that he was involved, I'd sure be looking at unsolved cases, not only in Des Moines but the Fairfax area as well as other areas that he resided during the past 30 years. Bc, if he (and/or his accomplices) did abduct and/or murder Johnny, given the amount of time, I would expect the victim count to be rather high.
    Last edited by shadowraiths; 04-13-2008 at 01:15 PM. Reason: corrected initials



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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Harrold View Post
    And then there's Paul Bishop again. He seems a very likely person for Noreen Gosch to have confided every last detail about Johnny to, and we have no idea what he was doing after he dropped out of her life in 1984 or '85. Perhaps he ended up in prison in neighboring Nebraska and met Paul Bonacci there?
    From my understanding he went back to Fairfax and resided there (abusing boys and making child pornography) until his arrest in 2005.
    Last edited by shadowraiths; 04-13-2008 at 01:11 PM. Reason: grammar



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  9. #159
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    Thank you, Shadow!

    It seems that you possess some information about GPB that is not publicly available, but I won't press you to disclose it beyond what you have already stated (knowing a victim of his).

    Any insight into Noreen Gosch's references to GPB having attended a Grand Jury hearing wherein he was questioned about Eugene Martin?

  10. #160
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    Paul Bishop

    This may be old information, and i'll apologize in advance if it is, but i just ran a search on Mr. Bishop on a site called "Intelius People Search" and a Paul Bishop of Alexandria, VA is listed. It also lists his prior cities of residence as: West Des Moines, IA; Washington DC; Lincoln, NEB; and Hastings, NEB.

    I'm assuming this is the same Bishop we are talking about (though they must have his age off by a few years as they still show early 40's and i think he is mid or late 40's).

    My point is only that he must have had an actual verifiable residence in these places, as i do not think Intelius is going to pick up a motel address. Therefore it seems as though he was at least in those cities/towns long enough to establish residence.

    Quite a coinsidence that the cities he lived in seem to match up were much of the "action" regarding the study of this case take place. Perhaps he was involved in something more than simply being a "CIA asset." Especially given that he is now serving time for well-documented crimes against children in VA.


  11. #161
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    Great info Insguru. If that is indeed "our guy", we can search out other unsolveds in those cities/areas for possible connections. Thanks!

  12. #162
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    Yes, thanks, Insguru, Roy and Shadow. You all have given me a lot to mull over. BTW, I did come across an Oct. 16, 1984 news article by looking at the 1984 archives on google.com. As per, I wasn’t able to pull the complete article, but it did mention a person interesting to me who worked at the DM Register. Something to do with messing around with boys, I believe. I’m wondering how much work the PD did on him since they botched the Gosch case so handi ly, and everyone was in a panic once EM had disappeared. Just a thought.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by kline View Post
    I guess part of my problem with some of these theories is that I work in a state psychiatric hospital.
    I hear dozens of conpiracy theories.Ive read as many manifestos about wide ranging plots reaching to the highest levels.
    Most of them from people who are civily commited as delusional paranoid schizophrenics.
    Alot of the things ive read from people contributing to this topic sound as though they could have been written by the same patients I deal with every day.
    That is all well and fine however these theories did not just originate from the tin foil hat crowd. Nor did they simply pop up out of the blue. For example, then Police Chief Orval Cooney, originally investigated "cult" angle back in September of 1982. Also, there is the case of Todd Bequette. He was kidnapped in 1973, and Dennis Whelan found him after spending 18 months tracking him all over the place.


    Bequette has been in the news again. This time alleging his kidnapper also murdered another child. (click here)



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  14. #164
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    Tinfoil hat crowd.LOL,thats awesome.
    Thanks for the article,.informative read.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowraiths View Post
    That is all well and fine however these theories did not just originate from the tin foil hat crowd. Nor did they simply pop up out of the blue. For example, then Police Chief Orval Cooney, originally investigated "cult" angle back in September of 1982. Also, there is the case of Todd Bequette. He was kidnapped in 1973, and Dennis Whelan found him after spending 18 months tracking him all over the place.


    Bequette has been in the news again. This time alleging his kidnapper also murdered another child. (click here)
    Thanks for this info.

    There isn't anything in this info about Bequette, indicating that his kidnapper had accomplices, exploited Bequette for pornography, "sold" him to other pedophiles or was involved in a cult. Why, then, are his mother and PI Whelan talking about "national pornography groups" in the article you have there (18c7408e.jpg) as though they had experiential expertise on the subject, enough to make judgements about such group's involvement in the Gosch case?

    Child porn definitely has been produced, in the US, for at least 50 years - by organized crime in the 1970s, by "independent" professional pornographers, by small groups of pedophiles working together and by individual victimizers of children (often a relative, sad to say), but I don't see the Bequette case as an example of any of those things?

    Do you have links to an article for the Orval Cooney investigation? I'd be very interested in seeing it.
    Last edited by christine2448; 04-14-2008 at 11:01 AM. Reason: misplaced comma, mod removed quote of large picture

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