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Thread: Inconsistencies

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ames View Post
    This is actually the time that I was referring to...when I said that this is the time that he COULD have been referring to, in the first interview that was posted in blue.. Maybe both times he was talking about before the Party, though. All I was saying is that he wasn't specific.
    Ames,
    Sure, but they knew that the size-12's were out of place so wanted specifically to know if JonBenet had changed her underwear e.g. size-12's. In the other interview they are locking her into a version of events that exclude John from being in a position to deposit his shirt fibers onto JonBenet's genitals.

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by maya.morgen View Post
    i still can't be sure though WHO did it.....
    but,imo # 1.Burke
    # 2.Patsy
    #3.John(but i doubt that he actually killed her)

    this case is unbelievable...i never changed my mind so often while following a case before!lol

    same here!

    ...i've flip flopped betw Burke & Patsy, i don't know how many times....i don't think John actually killed JBR either...

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by close_enough View Post
    same here!

    ...i've flip flopped betw Burke & Patsy, i don't know how many times....i don't think John actually killed JBR either...
    It couldn't have been Burke. He asked..."What did you find?", after overhearing Patsy on the 911 call about finding the ransom note. John then said..."we are not speaking to you". I don't think that Burke is involved at all.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Ames View Post
    It couldn't have been Burke. He asked..."What did you find?", after overhearing Patsy on the 911 call about finding the ransom note. John then said..."we are not speaking to you". I don't think that Burke is involved at all.
    i never knew what to believe about that conversation,maybe b/c i didn't hear anything while listening to the 911 call.but if so many people say it's there,then probably it is.

    i always thought that maybe Patsy is lying about the pineapple b/c Burke's fingerprints were on the bowl and that wasn't good.

  5. #30
    JOHN RAMSEY: Except for when I was there
    18 the suitcase was flat up against the wall.
    19 MIKE KANE: When you say flat up against the
    20 wall, how do you mean?
    21 JOHN RAMSEY: It was standing up like this,
    22 only it the light surface was against the wall.
    23 LOU SMIT: You said you moved it? Did you
    24 mention that?
    25 JOHN RAMSEY: I moved it a bit just to see
    0240
    1 if there was glass. It's funny how you remember
    2 things. I swear that window opened from the other
    3 side. I guess other than that, I can't see
    4 anything.


    LOU SMIT: Now you said that you picked up
    15 pieces of glass.
    16 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
    17 LOU SMIT: A few little pieces.
    18 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
    19 LOU SMIT: And did you say you put them on
    20 the window well or on the suitcase or do you
    21 remember?
    22 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember for sure.

    ~~~

    PMPT,page 44
    "On the floor under the window,he(Fleet) found small pieces of glass.He placed some of them on the windowsill.Then he moved the suitcase a few feet to get a closer look at the window."


    so 2 persons already moved the suitcase before the police could take a look at it....
    and then lou smit comes and tells us that it was placed there by an intruder....yeah right


    and don't you find it interesting,both John and Fleet telling the same story about the pieces of glass?

  6. #31
    i think it's fair to say that any intruder would have worn gloves,right?

    okay,then no need to wipe clean the broken stick of the garotte.

    how come they didn't find PATSY'S prints on it then?it was her paint brush,right?


  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by maya.morgen View Post
    i never knew what to believe about that conversation,maybe b/c i didn't hear anything while listening to the 911 call.but if so many people say it's there,then probably it is.

    i always thought that maybe Patsy is lying about the pineapple b/c Burke's fingerprints were on the bowl and that wasn't good.
    I actually heard the enhanced version of the 911 call on tv. I can't remember what show it was, because it was so long ago. You can clearly hear a boy's voice (which I assume to be Burke) say.."What did you find?" And then an adult male's voice (which I assume to be John) say, "We are not speaking to you". It may have been on "Geraldo" that I heard it...I wished that I could remember.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by maya.morgen View Post
    JOHN RAMSEY: Except for when I was there
    18 the suitcase was flat up against the wall.
    19 MIKE KANE: When you say flat up against the
    20 wall, how do you mean?
    21 JOHN RAMSEY: It was standing up like this,
    22 only it the light surface was against the wall.
    23 LOU SMIT: You said you moved it? Did you
    24 mention that?
    25 JOHN RAMSEY: I moved it a bit just to see
    0240
    1 if there was glass. It's funny how you remember
    2 things. I swear that window opened from the other
    3 side. I guess other than that, I can't see
    4 anything.


    LOU SMIT: Now you said that you picked up
    15 pieces of glass.
    16 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
    17 LOU SMIT: A few little pieces.
    18 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
    19 LOU SMIT: And did you say you put them on
    20 the window well or on the suitcase or do you
    21 remember?
    22 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember for sure.

    ~~~

    PMPT,page 44
    "On the floor under the window,he(Fleet) found small pieces of glass.He placed some of them on the windowsill.Then he moved the suitcase a few feet to get a closer look at the window."


    so 2 persons already moved the suitcase before the police could take a look at it....
    and then lou smit comes and tells us that it was placed there by an intruder....yeah right


    and don't you find it interesting,both John and Fleet telling the same story about the pieces of glass?

    Yes, and IMO..somebody is lying about that...and THAT somebody is JOHN. Why would two different people move the suitcase, to look for glass and to get a better look at the window. Once the suitcase has been moved, to be able to check out the window...it shouldn't have to be moved again. It had to have been moved out of the way...when it was moved the first time. So, somebody is lying....

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by maya.morgen View Post
    i think it's fair to say that any intruder would have worn gloves,right?

    okay,then no need to wipe clean the broken stick of the garotte.

    how come they didn't find PATSY'S prints on it then?it was her paint brush,right?

    Interesting that we've never seen anything about whether there were prints on the brush, either the part on the garrote or the part still in the tote. Of course, IDIs could argue (and not incorrectly) that PR's prints would be expected to be on her paintbrush and that the lack of intruder prints simply indicate gloves were worn. Of course, of gloves were worn, why wipe the flashlight and batteries?

    BTW, that is a VERY compelling reason for PR to deny owning the bowl and pineapple- if her son BR's prints were found on it too.
    The glass and tea bag with his prints can't be really linked to the crime just because it was on the same table as the pineapple bowl. They may have been left there at different times. But the pineapple and bowl are part of the case because she ate the pineapple from that bowl- within 2 hours of her death.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    Interesting that we've never seen anything about whether there were prints on the brush, either the part on the garrote or the part still in the tote. Of course, IDIs could argue (and not incorrectly) that PR's prints would be expected to be on her paintbrush and that the lack of intruder prints simply indicate gloves were worn. Of course, of gloves were worn, why wipe the flashlight and batteries?
    ...good reason,IMO,to think she may have been struck w. the flashlight,as there would have been no need to wear gloves if an altercation started while someone was holding the flashlight,and wasn't planning on hurting her with it, to begin with.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ames View Post
    Yes, and IMO..somebody is lying about that...and THAT somebody is JOHN. Why would two different people move the suitcase, to look for glass and to get a better look at the window. Once the suitcase has been moved, to be able to check out the window...it shouldn't have to be moved again. It had to have been moved out of the way...when it was moved the first time. So, somebody is lying....
    I vote for JR being the liar,too.FW was extremely honest;he knew it could incriminate him to admit he was in the basement,esp. so early on,but he was honest anyway.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ames View Post
    It couldn't have been Burke. He asked..."What did you find?", after overhearing Patsy on the 911 call about finding the ransom note. John then said..."we are not speaking to you". I don't think that Burke is involved at all.
    ..I don't either.It sounds like he was truly in the dark about what was going on.
    But the R's no doubt were unsure about what he'd overheard that night,so better to let LE SEE that he was 'asleep',and then send him quickly out the door and off to the White's.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    Ames,
    Sure, but they knew that the size-12's were out of place so wanted specifically to know if JonBenet had changed her underwear e.g. size-12's. In the other interview they are locking her into a version of events that exclude John from being in a position to deposit his shirt fibers onto JonBenet's genitals.
    ..it appears they only consented to the next interview anyway,in order to 'get some things straight' with their answers;one of those things appears to be JR's fiber evidence on JB.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778 View Post
    ...good reason,IMO,to think she may have been struck w. the flashlight,as there would have been no need to wear gloves if an altercation started while someone was holding the flashlight,and wasn't planning on hurting her with it, to begin with.
    Maybe Patsy, went in to check on JB..and to wake her up for her to go potty (Patsy was up during this time packing for the trip, so it wouldn't have been a big deal for her to go and make sure that JB went potty, especially after eating the pineapple, because she didn't want to deal with wet sheets the next morning, when they had to leave so early for the trip). She could have used the flashlight, instead of turning on the lights...and then she saw that JB had wet the bed....and THAT started the rage attack. SO, maybe she was hit with the flashlight, afterall.

    I used to think that the flashlight was used for writing the RN...while Patsy sat at the kitchen table. But, my guess is...that she wore gloves during this...and if this is the only time she used the flashlight, then she wouldn't have had to wipe it clean.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778 View Post
    ..I don't either.It sounds like he was truly in the dark about what was going on.
    But the R's no doubt were unsure about what he'd overheard that night,so better to let LE SEE that he was 'asleep',and then send him quickly out the door and off to the White's.
    I actually heard the enhanced 911 audio tape...I believe that it was on "Geraldo"..but I am not sure. Anyway...there is no doubt in my mind that Burke was up at this time, and that it was his voice on the tape...along with Johns. SO, you are right, this means that they sent him BACK to bed.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778 View Post
    ...good reason,IMO,to think she may have been struck w. the flashlight,as there would have been no need to wear gloves if an altercation started while someone was holding the flashlight,and wasn't planning on hurting her with it, to begin with.
    That's absolutely right! Most RDI's do feel it was an accident to begin with, though it is possible that the flashlight was used without gloves in the staging, and because gloves were later used, the flashlight needed to be wiped.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    That's absolutely right! Most RDI's do feel it was an accident to begin with, though it is possible that the flashlight was used without gloves in the staging, and because gloves were later used, the flashlight needed to be wiped.
    Okay, now I have changed my mind again...I believe that Patsy used the flashlight during the writing of the RN, and this is the lights that the neighbors saw coming from the Ramsey's kitchen. There wasn't a window in the WC, so they probably just turned on the lights down there, for the staging, because nobody could have seen it.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ames View Post
    Okay, now I have changed my mind again...I believe that Patsy used the flashlight during the writing of the RN, and this is the lights that the neighbors saw coming from the Ramsey's kitchen. There wasn't a window in the WC, so they probably just turned on the lights down there, for the staging, because nobody could have seen it.
    Yes, that's right. The neighbor reported seeing "strange moving lights" in the R kitchen; obviously that was someone walking with the flashlight. It was closer to the 12 midnight-1am window for her death, too, if I recall. The wineceller had no widows, but actually, neither did the hallway right outside the WC either. The windows were in the train room, but there was a chair pulled in front of a closed door, so nothing would be seen there anyway, and I think that it would be hard to see moving lights through those high windows near the ceiling anyway.
    But because the RN was likely written shortly after she was killed, with possibly PR doing the writing while JR was beginning the staging, and lets face it, there are people still awake at that hour (midnight-1am) who could have seen into the kitchen and seen her writing something.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    Yes, that's right. The neighbor reported seeing "strange moving lights" in the R kitchen; obviously that was someone walking with the flashlight. It was closer to the 12 midnight-1am window for her death, too, if I recall. The wineceller had no widows, but actually, neither did the hallway right outside the WC either. The windows were in the train room, but there was a chair pulled in front of a closed door, so nothing would be seen there anyway, and I think that it would be hard to see moving lights through those high windows near the ceiling anyway.
    But because the RN was likely written shortly after she was killed, with possibly PR doing the writing while JR was beginning the staging, and lets face it, there are people still awake at that hour (midnight-1am) who could have seen into the kitchen and seen her writing something.
    Yep, I believe thats exactly why she didn't turn on the kitchen light to write the note...she used the flashlight. My guess, is that she probably had to replace the batteries in it, before she could use it...and that is why they were wiped clean too. I think that she got a bit carried away with that though, because....the flashlight belonged to them..so of COURSE their prints would be on the batteries. She had no reason to wipe them clean...I think that she was just running on adrenaline, and was being overly cautious.

  20. #45
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    ..or JR's prints could have been on it,if he used it to look at his airplane earlier that day.He appears to have been overly cautious about his evidence being on anything.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    Interesting that we've never seen anything about whether there were prints on the brush, either the part on the garrote or the part still in the tote. Of course, IDIs could argue (and not incorrectly) that PR's prints would be expected to be on her paintbrush and that the lack of intruder prints simply indicate gloves were worn. Of course, of gloves were worn, why wipe the flashlight and batteries?

    BTW, that is a VERY compelling reason for PR to deny owning the bowl and pineapple- if her son BR's prints were found on it too.
    The glass and tea bag with his prints can't be really linked to the crime just because it was on the same table as the pineapple bowl. They may have been left there at different times. But the pineapple and bowl are part of the case because she ate the pineapple from that bowl- within 2 hours of her death.
    an IDI could argue also that Patsy and Burke ate pineapple days ago and it was the intruder wearing gloves who took it out to bait jbr....

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Ames View Post
    Okay, now I have changed my mind again...I believe that Patsy used the flashlight during the writing of the RN, and this is the lights that the neighbors saw coming from the Ramsey's kitchen. There wasn't a window in the WC, so they probably just turned on the lights down there, for the staging, because nobody could have seen it.
    what about that scream MS heard...they say that it was heard b/c jbr screamed while being in the basement,iirc.
    did the accident take place down there then?

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778 View Post
    ..or JR's prints could have been on it,if he used it to look at his airplane earlier that day.He appears to have been overly cautious about his evidence being on anything.
    JMO8778,
    Interesting that. Just like JonBenet's underwear, any pair of size-6's found on her would have been consistent with her lifestyle, particularly a pageant princess. Similarly any flashlight discovered with either Patsy's or John's fingerprints would have been unremarkable, since both could cite valid reasons for recent use.


    Wiping the flashlight clean, just as wiping her genital area clean and redressing her in those ludicrous size-12's tell us something does not add up here, because as per the staging neither cleaning event contributed to the staging. They actually detracted from it and set the alarm bells ringing.


    Also neither the size-12's nor the flashlight suggest an intruder was involved, intuitively the opposite is highlighted.


    The flashlight is not staging since it was removed from the staged crime-scene, that it was wiped clean suggests alike the potentially missing size-6's it held incriminating forensic evidence , not fingerprints, but say blood or hair fibers from JonBenet?

    Another thought is that it formed part of a prior staging where it was wiped clean and left at a staged crime-scene to indicate why JonBenet had died from a head blow? Subsequent staging revised this to the kidnapping scenario so the flashlight was removed and simply relocated?


    .

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by maya.morgen View Post
    what about that scream MS heard...they say that it was heard b/c jbr screamed while being in the basement,iirc.
    did the accident take place down there then?
    No, I believe that it took place in JB's bathroom.

  25. #50
    curious1 is offline So broccoli, mother says your good for me,well I'm afraid i'm not good for you!
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    Can I just state for the record that I love the title of this thread "Inconsistencies"? When I first saw it I thought are you kidding me listing the non-inconsistencies would make for a shorter thread, this one will be going on for 10 years.

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