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Thread: Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #2

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  1. #1
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    Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #2

    Carry on.

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    It is probably for the reason of transporting children across state lines for the purposes of sex. Esp since many of them were residents of other states until the recent move to Texas.

    But there could also be a couple of other reasons, and at some point I do look for the feds to use them.

    The church claims tax exempt status, and if they have come across any info that indicates that they have violated the tax laws in that, there could be federal involvement.

    There may also be attention because of misuse of social security numbers. Right now they are trying to identify them, one way would be to get their social security numbers. All of them would have to have social security numbers if they were drawing welfare. Those ss records should have info about the parents because they have to submit a birth certificate to get them. If they are giving false socials or using someone else's socials, then that is a federal violation.

    Another thing might be wefare fraud across state lines. Most moved to Texas recently, if as we suspect many were drawing welfare benefits in the other state, who knows whether they closed their cases or not when they moved. By drawing in one state and residing in another state, that might bring in the feds.

    And somehow I believe that eventually they will go after the FLDS financial records. I don't know why I believe that, I just do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mysteriew View Post

    And somehow I believe that eventually they will go after the FLDS financial records. I don't know why I believe that, I just do.
    Myst, Utah is in charge of the churches financial assets which are way over $100 million dollars.

    http://www.religionnewsblog.com/1638...rms-flds-trust
    A judge in Salt Lake City’s 3rd District Court signed an order late Wednesday, reforming the $110 million dollar trust.
    ......
    The UEP Trust controls homes, businesses and land within the towns. It was part of a “united order” that the FLDS Church created. In 2005, Judge Denise Lindberg took control of the UEP Trust amid allegations that FLDS prophet Warren Jeffs and other top church leaders were fleecing it. She appointed certified public accountant Bruce Wisan to act as the court-appointed special fiduciary, managing the trust.

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    There's a lot of information in this article, but what I thought interesting is the difficult task the CPS workers are having with this group.

    http://www.sltrib.com/ci_8872379

    The affidavit also describes conversations between two Child Protective Services workers and a half dozen young mothers and girls who knew young mothers within the group. One CPS worker said she asked one girl her age; the girl looked at her husband, who responded, "You are 18."
    The girl parroted the answer, according to the document. The girl also said she is the man's fourth wife and has an infant.
    Another girl told a CPS worker she did not know her own age but acknowledged having a two-year-old and being pregnant. The CPS worker said an 8-year-old later told her the girl is under 16 and has four children.

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    I really hope this is true!

    http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...1.46ab4b7.html

    SAN ANGELO, Texas – Child welfare officials said Wednesday that they're nearly certain the teenage girl whose complaint triggered the removal of 416 children from a West Texas polygamist compound is in their care but is too afraid to identify herself.

    "We are confident that she was at the ranch. We know she exists," said Child Protective Services spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner

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    Judge's humor over the status of Barlow

    Chief Friend Walker of the Mohave County, Ariz., Probation Department, is claiming that Barlow has been checking in with his probation officer regularly and hasn't received travel permits to leave the state. He's claiming he hasn't seen a warrant to arrest Barlow. Obviously a warrant was issued since sheriff's officials CONFIRM they located him in AZ the day the search warrant was issued. How exactly did they know they had to locate him, if they hadn't received paperwork to locate him?

    Here's the Judge's response to that situation:

    http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695269124,00.html
    ...
    Walker said he has not seen a warrant for Barlow's arrest, but Judge Barbara Walther indicated in court that she believes she issued one. In court Wednesday, the church's attorney Gerald Goldstein said sheriff's officials in Arizona located Barlow in their state the day the search warrant was issued.

    "I don't think anyone's going to argue that was the guy they're looking for," Goldstein said.

    "So my authority is not valid in Arizona?" the judge replied. "That may be another thing we look into."

    When a comparison was later made to an hypothetical raid on the Vatican, Walther joked that she knows she has no jurisdiction in Italy.

    "I can't even get an arrest warrant issued in Arizona," she said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golfmom View Post
    I really hope this is true!

    http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...1.46ab4b7.html

    SAN ANGELO, Texas – Child welfare officials said Wednesday that they're nearly certain the teenage girl whose complaint triggered the removal of 416 children from a West Texas polygamist compound is in their care but is too afraid to identify herself.

    "We are confident that she was at the ranch. We know she exists," said Child Protective Services spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner
    On page one of this thread, I posted a link to the video of the press conference with Marleigh Meisner in which she states they're pretty confident they have the girl. She also said that all the adult women are free to go at any time, but none have chosen to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golfmom View Post
    Another girl told a CPS worker she did not know her own age but acknowledged having a two-year-old and being pregnant. The CPS worker said an 8-year-old later told her the girl is under 16 and has four children.
    I changed your bolding to emphasize a different sentence.....the bolded about the 8 year old gives me GREAT hope that these victims still have enough of themselves left, despite the brainwashing and threats, to speak up and help save themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golfmom View Post
    Another girl told a CPS worker she did not know her own age but acknowledged having a two-year-old and being pregnant. The CPS worker said an 8-year-old later told her the girl is under 16 and has four children.
    This breaks my heart

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    Thanks Fairy, it was a very traumatic and weird. What happened to me was a real fluke and could have had serious consequences. Ok, enough about me.


    ***
    The below linked article really has me upset. I've always liked Utah's AG. However, his attempt to excuse the non-action of the State of Utah towards polygamy is just flat out unacceptable. No wonder Texas doesn't want his help. Utah's non action resulted in the FLDS causing Texas the headache they have today. And what would Mark teach them? How to make lame excuses maybe?

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3049050


    Attorney General Mark Shurtleff says, "Whether you think we should or not, it can't be done." He says he's facing new criticism, alongside Arizona's Attorney General, that they haven't done enough to prosecute polygamists. He cites a lack of infrastructure -- things like room in prisons and foster care homes -- as one of the reasons Utah will not be following in Texas' footsteps.
    "It's impossible; it's not practical; 416 is a lot, even for a big organization like Texas, but we have thousands here," Shurtleff said.
    Shurtleff's office had planned to serve 80 warrants to members of the Kingston clan more than a year ago but backed off due, in part, to promises from Kingston attorneys that their clients would cooperate. Those promises fell through and many of the 80 fled.
    Despite that instance, Shurtleff says allegations are handled individually. "We'll take them one case at a time, one victim at a time, one house, if you will, at a time." Shurtleff says he's offered to help authorities in Texas by sharing information and experiences but has not been taken up on that offer, a fact that surprises him.

    ETA: I guess it's cheaper to pay out welfare than to address the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuziQ View Post
    Thanks Fairy, it was a very traumatic and weird. What happened to me was a real fluke and could have had serious consequences. Ok, enough about me.


    ***
    The below linked article really has me upset. I've always liked Utah's AG. However, his attempt to excuse the non-action of the State of Utah towards polygamy is just flat out unacceptable. No wonder Texas doesn't want his help. Utah's non action resulted in the FLDS causing Texas the headache they have today. And what would Mark teach them? How to make lame excuses maybe?

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3049050


    Attorney General Mark Shurtleff says, "Whether you think we should or not, it can't be done." He says he's facing new criticism, alongside Arizona's Attorney General, that they haven't done enough to prosecute polygamists. He cites a lack of infrastructure -- things like room in prisons and foster care homes -- as one of the reasons Utah will not be following in Texas' footsteps.
    "It's impossible; it's not practical; 416 is a lot, even for a big organization like Texas, but we have thousands here," Shurtleff said.
    Shurtleff's office had planned to serve 80 warrants to members of the Kingston clan more than a year ago but backed off due, in part, to promises from Kingston attorneys that their clients would cooperate. Those promises fell through and many of the 80 fled.
    Despite that instance, Shurtleff says allegations are handled individually. "We'll take them one case at a time, one victim at a time, one house, if you will, at a time." Shurtleff says he's offered to help authorities in Texas by sharing information and experiences but has not been taken up on that offer, a fact that surprises him.

    ETA: I guess it's cheaper to pay out welfare than to address the problem.
    I sincerely hope you're ok SuziQ. You're absoutely right about it being cheaper to pay out welfare than to take care of the women and children of FLDS. But I hope this case brings to light what has been happening there. It is so difficult for mainstream society to grasp what is happening in these sects. It goes agains the very fabric of the American way of life. I worry that most people will feel that these people are there voluntarily. But these people (mostly women and children) need help and we should all step up to the plate. I hope the timing is right and that Texas LE and the FBI have enough evidence to put an end to the FLDS. It is an overwhelming undertaking and must be handled properly, but it can and SHOULD be done. Once and for all.

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    CNN has a video clip of an update on the adults and children that were removed from the compound. Child Protective Services spokeswoman, Marleigh Meisner states that they believe they have the 16-year-old (Sarah) who made the phone calls for help, but cannot yet confirm that. It was explained that she might be too frightened to come forward.

    I would think that by now they've probably completed some sort of assessment of those who were removed from the compound, and have probably been able to narrow it down to just a few girls that fit the profile of the girl. How may 16-year-olds with an 8-month old daughter, who is pregnant could there be among the children?

    One of the reporters asked about the adult women. Ms. Meisner said that all of the adult women were free to leave at any time, but none have chosen to do so.


    http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/cri...t.children.cnn

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    SusiQ, I refer to your post on the last thread about the church denouncing polygamy. Yes they denounce, but say it is not wrong. IOW they talk out both sides of their mouths. They do not give a clear view on this because it would taint all the forbears who not only were polygamist, they encouraged the practice.

    This religion, (and yes, I have trouble equating this with a religion because I've read the history and know the practice) is isolationist, based on secret teachings that few, if any have seen. The Moonies have bought their way into respectability, and they followed the example of the LDS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lola View Post
    SusiQ, I refer to your post on the last thread about the church denouncing polygamy. Yes they denounce, but say it is not wrong. IOW they talk out both sides of their mouths. They do not give a clear view on this because it would taint all the forbears who not only were polygamist, they encouraged the practice.

    This religion, (and yes, I have trouble equating this with a religion because I've read the history and know the practice) is isolationist, based on secret teachings that few, if any have seen. The Moonies have bought their way into respectability, and they followed the example of the LDS.
    FLDS cannot be condemned by mainstream LDS as by doing so it would condemn mormon founder Joseph Smith, which would by dint condemn the entire Latter Day Saint spectrum, whichever colour were being flown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lola View Post
    SusiQ, I refer to your post on the last thread about the church denouncing polygamy. Yes they denounce, but say it is not wrong. IOW they talk out both sides of their mouths. They do not give a clear view on this because it would taint all the forbears who not only were polygamist, they encouraged the practice.

    This religion, (and yes, I have trouble equating this with a religion because I've read the history and know the practice) is isolationist, based on secret teachings that few, if any have seen. The Moonies have bought their way into respectability, and they followed the example of the LDS.
    The past tense is key here. Good God, this is 2008.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuziQ View Post
    The below linked article really has me upset. I've always liked Utah's AG. However, his attempt to excuse the non-action of the State of Utah towards polygamy is just flat out unacceptable. No wonder Texas doesn't want his help. Utah's non action resulted in the FLDS causing Texas the headache they have today. And what would Mark teach them? How to make lame excuses maybe?

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3049050

    Attorney General Mark Shurtleff says, "Whether you think we should or not, it can't be done." He says he's facing new criticism, alongside Arizona's Attorney General, that they haven't done enough to prosecute polygamists. He cites a lack of infrastructure -- things like room in prisons and foster care homes -- as one of the reasons Utah will not be following in Texas' footsteps.
    "It's impossible; it's not practical; 416 is a lot, even for a big organization like Texas, but we have thousands here," Shurtleff said.
    Shurtleff's office had planned to serve 80 warrants to members of the Kingston clan more than a year ago but backed off due, in part, to promises from Kingston attorneys that their clients would cooperate. Those promises fell through and many of the 80 fled.
    Despite that instance, Shurtleff says allegations are handled individually. "We'll take them one case at a time, one victim at a time, one house, if you will, at a time." Shurtleff says he's offered to help authorities in Texas by sharing information and experiences but has not been taken up on that offer, a fact that surprises him.

    ETA: I guess it's cheaper to pay out welfare than to address the problem.
    It's not only cheaper, but it assumes he doesn't care about victims of abuse and these young girls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuziQ View Post
    Thanks Fairy, it was a very traumatic and weird. What happened to me was a real fluke and could have had serious consequences. Ok, enough about me.


    ***
    The below linked article really has me upset. I've always liked Utah's AG. However, his attempt to excuse the non-action of the State of Utah towards polygamy is just flat out unacceptable. No wonder Texas doesn't want his help. Utah's non action resulted in the FLDS causing Texas the headache they have today. And what would Mark teach them? How to make lame excuses maybe?

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3049050


    Attorney General Mark Shurtleff says, "Whether you think we should or not, it can't be done." He says he's facing new criticism, alongside Arizona's Attorney General, that they haven't done enough to prosecute polygamists. He cites a lack of infrastructure -- things like room in prisons and foster care homes -- as one of the reasons Utah will not be following in Texas' footsteps.
    "It's impossible; it's not practical; 416 is a lot, even for a big organization like Texas, but we have thousands here," Shurtleff said.
    Shurtleff's office had planned to serve 80 warrants to members of the Kingston clan more than a year ago but backed off due, in part, to promises from Kingston attorneys that their clients would cooperate. Those promises fell through and many of the 80 fled.
    Despite that instance, Shurtleff says allegations are handled individually. "We'll take them one case at a time, one victim at a time, one house, if you will, at a time." Shurtleff says he's offered to help authorities in Texas by sharing information and experiences but has not been taken up on that offer, a fact that surprises him.

    ETA: I guess it's cheaper to pay out welfare than to address the problem.

    So, in other words, there's too many abused children out there for us to take care of, so we're just going to ignore them, and let that group continue to grow and grow and grow?

    NOW IF THAT'S NOT WUSSIN' OUT ON OUR RESPONSIBILITIES AS A SOCIETY TO TAKE CARE OF OUR CHILDREN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS !!! THAT IS A DISGUSTING COMMENT FOR HIM TO HAVE MADE !!!

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    Since the state has control of over $100 Million in church funds to BENEFIT the members. His excuses sound very lame.

    I had to laugh out loud over his comment that he's surprised Texas hasn't called him. Like he's been doing such a good job that Texas needs or wants his advise.

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    http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695269033,00.html

    With 80 search warrants in hand for DNA samples and other evidence, Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff said he was set to conduct a sweeping raid on a secretive polygamous clan in 2006.

    Instead, Shurtleff changed his mind and clan leaders quickly made themselves scarce. He made the disclosure in an interview with KTVX-TV in Salt Lake City.
    .....
    In Utah, Shurtleff said that instead of conducting a sweep of the Kingston clan, he decided to work with the family's attorneys.

    But "nothing took place and those warrants expired," Murphy said Wednesday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golfmom View Post
    Since the state has control of over $100 Million in church funds to BENEFIT the members. His excuses sound very lame.

    I had to laugh out loud over his comment that he's surprised Texas hasn't called him. Like he's been doing such a good job that Texas needs or wants his advise.
    I know! Either Mark is behaving very oddly or his true colors have just come out. He has done more to stand against polygamy than any other Utah AG. He was the first to bring the plight of the Lost Boys to the forefront and has consistently fought for their rights. So his recent comments have thrown me for a loop.

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    These old perverts do know that women who are older than in their teens can have lots of babies too, right?

    What a great arrangement for them. Free to be pedophiles and then get the government to foot the bill. They never legally marry any of the children they rape and claim as a "wife", and so all of these women can apply for welfare assistance. The rapists earn money on the side and give it all to their leaders, and in exchange the leaders provide lawyers that try their best to keep them from being prosecuted for these crimes.

    How convenient that the only ancient "customs" they hold dear are the ones that allow them to have an unlimited amount of sex with young children that they choose like a trip to the candy store. U.S. taxpayers have been picking up the tab for this sexual pervert haven, and so the U.S. is demanding accountability. That's how it works. If they have a problem with our legal system or feel persecuted by evil government then perhaps they should have stepped out of the welfare line and relied instead on whoever is telling them to live this way. I am all in favor of taxes going to those who truly need assistance, that is the system we have in place. But when it is the government who is paying for your groceries and your housing and your light bill, then biting the hand that feeds you is especially egregious.

    Those poor men who are so brainwashed and don't know any better, and really they have no idea there is anything wrong going on. Ummm....why is it always the WOMEN who report it? Has an older FLDS man EVER called the police and said he was being raped or abused? Again, how convenient to claim the "brainwashed" condition. How convenient it is their "religion." How odd too that the religions who are the strictest when it comes to monitoring the "behavior" of their members are also the one's with the most sexual crimes against their membership.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scarpetta View Post
    These old perverts do know that women who are older than in their teens can have lots of babies too, right?

    What a great arrangement for them. Free to be pedophiles and then get the government to foot the bill. They never legally marry any of the children they rape and claim as a "wife", and so all of these women can apply for welfare assistance. The rapists earn money on the side and give it all to their leaders, and in exchange the leaders provide lawyers that try their best to keep them from being prosecuted for these crimes.

    How convenient that the only ancient "customs" they hold dear are the ones that allow them to have an unlimited amount of sex with young children that they choose like a trip to the candy store. U.S. taxpayers have been picking up the tab for this sexual pervert haven, and so the U.S. is demanding accountability. That's how it works. If they have a problem with our legal system or feel persecuted by evil government then perhaps they should have stepped out of the welfare line and relied instead on whoever is telling them to live this way. I am all in favor of taxes going to those who truly need assistance, that is the system we have in place. But when it is the government who is paying for your groceries and your housing and your light bill, then biting the hand that feeds you is especially egregious.

    Those poor men who are so brainwashed and don't know any better, and really they have no idea there is anything wrong going on. Ummm....why is it always the WOMEN who report it? Has an older FLDS man EVER called the police and said he was being raped or abused? Again, how convenient to claim the "brainwashed" condition. How convenient it is their "religion." How odd too that the religions who are the strictest when it comes to monitoring the "behavior" of their members are also the one's with the most sexual crimes against their membership.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scarpetta View Post

    Those poor men who are so brainwashed and don't know any better, and really they have no idea there is anything wrong going on. Ummm....why is it always the WOMEN who report it? Has an older FLDS man EVER called the police and said he was being raped or abused? Again, how convenient to claim the "brainwashed" condition. How convenient it is their "religion." How odd too that the religions who are the strictest when it comes to monitoring the "behavior" of their members are also the one's with the most sexual crimes against their membership.
    Actually, yes ... I think it was Jeffs own nephew. I'd have to search around to find a link to the story.

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Jeffs

    In July 2004, Warren Jeffs' nephew, Brent Jeffs, filed a lawsuit against him alleging that in the late 1980s his uncle sodomized him in the Salt Lake Valley compound then owned by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS). Brent Jeffs said he was five or six years old at the time, and that Warren Jeffs' brothers, also named in the lawsuit, watched and participated in the abuse. Two of Warren Jeffs' other nephews also made similar abuse claims against him. One of the alleged victims, Clayne Jeffs, committed suicide with a firearm after accusing Warren Jeffs of sexually assaulting him as a child.[23]

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    Quote Originally Posted by golfmom View Post
    Since the state has control of over $100 Million in church funds to BENEFIT the members. His excuses sound very lame.
    I would imagine that the group in TX has funds separate from the $100 Million, right? Since they aren't in Utah, they could keep their funds separate, as could other locations. Utah would have no control.

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