So EVERY church needs to be doing something about it, not just the Mormons.
Please help locate Mark Dribin http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=Mark+Dribin and Ilene Misheloff http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...lene+Misheloff and bring them home.
So EVERY church needs to be doing something about it, not just the Mormons.
If any church, especially a big mainstream one, got involved with chastising another churches practice, it could backfire bigtime. And I would bet there would be a public outcry that the "big bully church" is picking on the small church and trying to tell them what to do. I think in this instance the LDS church can accomplish more by doing what they've always done. By helping anyone, including polygamists, that asks for their help. Rather than grandstanding and making non binding public statements regarding the situation, and starting a war of words that won't help anyone.
When the mothers of children who had been killed by drunk drivers came together from all states to form Mothers Against Drunk Drivers, that's when we saw laws being changed and laws being made stronger, to combat the issue of drunk driving.
This is the same concept. All states who have FLDS communities must work together.
I guess a 16 year old girl with a cell phone is more powerful than one of the largest wealthiest churches on the planet because she brought it alllll down in Texas. (And Thank GOD for Texas authorities who did the right thing. Texans should be proud!) That being said, to the poster who misunderstood what I said a couple of pages back, I don't hold the Mormon church responsible for what was happening in thet compound. I hold them responsible for being as big and mighty and powerful as they are WITH people in high places who could help and affect change, and yet did nothing. And you cannot tell me they didn't know what was going on. The Warren Jeffs trial was when, last year? EVERYBODY knew what was going on there after that. No, it's not the Mormon churches fault, IMO, it's their fault they didn't see a need and see people in trouble, some of which are related to LDS members, and CHOSE to NOT STEP UP. There are many churches out there who do charitable works for anybody in need, not just their own members. Maybe the Mormons should take a cue from them. FLDS is not LDS. Does that mean the LDS doesn't have the moral obligation to help those children?
Bigamy = Bi = two
Polygamy = Poly = many (or more than two)
You can't be prosecuted for either bigamy (two spouses) or polygamy (more than two spouses) unless you obtained marriage licenses and were legally married to more than one at the same time without previously dissolving your prior marriage(s). Since most of these polygamy cases are "spiritual" and not "legal" there is no grounds for legal prosecution, and to do such would be a monumental waste of time and money.
i understand the need to blame. we have children that are hurt. hell i want someone to hate and be angry at. of course i hate the men that rape the children but they are a lost cause. i want to blame someone that can change things.
i want to blame the police in Texas. they knew children lived there and they knew this cult hurt children. they say they had to wait for a legal reason to act. screw the law kids are hurt. i understand we need laws so we do not live in fear of police knocking on my door tomorrow and taking my kids just because they feel like it. there is a disconnect between my heart and head. my head knows that police should follow the law or they are no more than a street gang. my heart screams that children suffered every day that the police waited for proof to act.
i want to blame the LDS. the 2 groups are related. they both started as the same group. my head knows that before Mormons became Mormons they can be traced back to other offshoots of the christian faith. my head knows Jews practiced polygamy at one time. my heart does not care. i want to blame them because they share a past and i have hope they can change the future.
i want to blame anyone that practices polygamy or defends it. i know there is a difference between what adults do and child brides. i still want to blame them.
this case is hard for me. i have spent years suffering abuse. what is logical and what i feel do not always match up.
should the LDS step up and combat the abuse of children? hell yes! so should every religious group. while we are at it so should those that believe in nothing at all or something not covered by the other groups. before we blame the LDS for not stopping child abuse in a community they had ties to a hundred years ago remember we can not stop abuse going on in our own neighborhoods. pull up your local map and see how many men that have raped children are living in your town under the title RSO. people in general fail our children more often than any predator in the darkest jungle.
Do you know anything about how the FLDS operates? More than likely any LDS members with FLDS family couldn't have had any CONTACT with them, these people were so shut off from the outside world and not allowed to contact anyone not in their own FLDS family. The FLDS shut themselves off from everyone! They (as a group) didn't WANT outsiders help, and Warren Jeffs and his cronies ruled with an iron fist. Outsiders in CO City, for example, are followed and questioned by the local PD (FLDS members of course) and then escorted out of town. Little hard to help people when you have these creeps preventing that! "Underneath the Banner of Heaven" might be a good place to start to learn more.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.---Patrick Moynihan
Living in the
Let me just ask...
If you were an adult female with FLDS, had lived a life under the circumstances these women lived, and had a child or several children, how would you ever achieve a normal life in the mainstream world? Most likely, these women have no education, no job skills. What will they do? God forbid that they return to this cult or to their "husbands."
(B) lives with that person in this state under
the appearance of being married.
(b) For purposes of this section, "under the appearance of
being married" means holding out that the parties are married with
cohabitation and an intent to be married by either party.
Oh Barb, I missed your previous post. Texas law has some real teeth then to be able to go after this group based on it's recognition of common law marriage.
But Pepper, that's exactly the loophole that the polygamist keep sliding through in Utah and Arizona. Texas recognizes these "spiritual marriages" and therefore can prosecute for polygamy in addition to the child abuse.
And, personally, I think that they should. This isn't freedom of religion ...
A judge has ordered all the children stay in the San Angelo area until after a hearing next week.
Child services workers say the children may be put in foster homes after that hearing, but the cultural adjustment would require intense counseling. Some former members of the FLDS Church say girls are told leaving the compound could consign them to eternal damnation, and they are sheltered to the point they don't trust their own judgment.
I guess we'll just have to disagree. I don't view it as a waste of money, enforcing the law. And, I have a big problem with Utah and Arizona's lax treatment of the polygamists.
And no, it's not unconstitutional. Where in the Constitution does it guarantee you the right to have multiple marriage partners?
Last edited by barb0301; 04-11-2008 at 09:39 PM. Reason: edited to add links
You are absolutely right, it is not freedom of religion. I am going to guess that all of the adult women were raped when they were children. I don't know what the statute of limitations is in Texas on child rape, but there should be no need to even address polygamy between adults.
Long article, but I thought this tidbit was interesting:
As for the 16-year-old girl who called a hotline to report she was being sexually and physically abused at the ranch, child welfare officials still have not identified her. "It's been an unbelievable task figuring out the identities of these victims," Meisner said.
"Their names change frequently and many have the same name."
From my understanding the group was educating children through at a minimum of 8th grade, up until Warren Jeffs took over the group. Then he dictated that all children be removed from school.