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Thread: CNN Breaking News- Marine Cpl. Cesar Laurean caught!! *merged*

  1. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlover77 View Post
    Dear SS, Yes, I have smelt hair burn before..I have smelled burned dead bodies quite a few times in my life also. I was a firefighter for 12 years. But in this case...I think because there was so much stuff piled on top of the fire opit that u could disquise the odor with various accelerants and him being a Marine, he would I am sure have some knowledge about that type of stuff. The weather would also help because it was in December...a cold time of the year.
    I don't think there was a large pile of stuff on top of her when she burned because there was dirt underneath the pile of fencing etc. at the bon fires, IIRC. She was buried underneath the ground by then in a shallow grave. I don't think they said anything about finding a lot of debris when they dug down and around to remove her body either.

    I respect that you were a firefighter, but I don't know that accelerants could disguise the stench so readily. (Why would Cesar know how to burn bodies with no smell? Are they teaching this in the Marines?! ACK!)
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    I
    I respect that you were a firefighter, but I don't know that accelerants could disguise the stench so readily. (Why would Cesar know how to burn bodies with no smell? Are they teaching this in the Marines?! ACK!)
    I don't think they're teaching that to personnel clerks, anyway!

  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    I don't think there was a large pile of stuff on top of her when she burned because there was dirt underneath the pile of fencing etc. at the bon fires, IIRC. She was buried underneath the ground by then in a shallow grave. I don't think they said anything about finding a lot of debris when they dug down and around to remove her body either.

    I respect that you were a firefighter, but I don't know that accelerants could disguise the stench so readily. (Why would Cesar know how to burn bodies with no smell? Are they teaching this in the Marines?! ACK!)
    I read somewhere that there is a type of "cooking" he could've learned in Mexico but I can't remember the specific name of it, that this firepit resembled. I don't think he used any accelerant and I also remember he'd lit the fire more than once.
    Rest in Peace
    Joey, Summer, Gianni & Joseph Mateo


  4. #379
    I think you are thinking of the term: barbacoa. This is refered to as the dish and not the pit it is cooked in. Most things I read refer to it simply as pit cooking.

    I don't think the pit was filled with coals underneath her body which would be required. Also, I don't know that her body would have burned like it did with only coals. I think oxygen and an open flame were evident there.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  5. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    I think you are thinking of the term: barbacoa. This is refered to as the dish and not the pit it is cooked in. Most things I read refer to it simply as pit cooking.

    I don't think the pit was filled with coals underneath her body which would be required. Also, I don't know that her body would have burned like it did with only coals. I think oxygen and an open flame were evident there.
    Yes, that is the word I'd seen, but I didn't realize it didn't apply to the type of cooking or that coal was part of it. Thanks!
    Rest in Peace
    Joey, Summer, Gianni & Joseph Mateo


  6. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crime-Dreamer View Post
    Good points. And she does not have to testify against her husband so they must be very careful with her. They could also turn on each other and each say the other did it leaving it hard to convict either one. The bottom line is did he stray or was it rape?
    I noticed how casually Hudson put that out there.

    He said it was obvious to him that Christina was torn by her love she has for her husband and angry with him for cheating on her. Hmmmmmmm was this a misspeak on Hudson's part or does he know that CAL did indeed have a willing affair with Maria. It sounds to me like he knows they did.

    imoo

  7. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes View Post
    I noticed how casually Hudson put that out there.

    He said it was obvious to him that Christina was torn by her love she has for her husband and angry with him for cheating on her. Hmmmmmmm was this a misspeak on Hudson's part or does he know that CAL did indeed have a willing affair with Maria. It sounds to me like he knows they did.

    imoo
    I caught that, too.

    And think the same as you.

  8. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    I think you are thinking of the term: barbacoa. This is referred to as the dish and not the pit it is cooked in. Most things I read refer to it simply as pit cooking.

    I don't think the pit was filled with coals underneath her body which would be required. Also, I don't know that her body would have burned like it did with only coals. I think oxygen and an open flame were evident there.
    I think all of that was salacious spin. Charcoal has never been mentioned, in fact I don't think they found any accelerates on the body or clothing. The body was buried in a shallow grave of about three feet and it was covered with dirt. As the embers from the bonfire died down he added more dirt on top so imo there absolutely was no odor at all. She was entombed in the cavity of the grave.

    I don't use my fire pit to cook. It is used for bonfires where wood is placed on top of the ground. We start ours using dead limbs and put newspaper under them and they ignite quickly.

    If he wanted to burn her body he certainly could have done so and there would have been nothing left but ashes. They found clothing and even a plastic bag with baby clothes in it where they could even read the size. This shows she was not burned in an open pit with no dirt covering her.

    She became charred due to the heat directly above ground and most likely as she began to decompose her body shrank from 140 to 95 pounds causing the grave to collapse some causing him to add more dirt. That would mean the dirt around her body would shift and cause tiny crevices and tiny cracks in the soil where the small staples that had come from the old fencing would fall through onto her body. The fire may have been more on the end where her bottom portion was and less in the upper portion. With the ME being able to measure the size and depth of the superficial wound on her neck it again shows she was not placed in an open pit and burned imo. He even could see it did not go through her neck muscle from what IIRC.

    Even CS believes CAL did not purposefully intend to burn her body up but used the bonfire fire pit to disguise where he had placed the grave. That is why he has not been charged with desecrating the body. They have to have evidence of intent and if he intended to do it he would have burned all of her body not just parts.

    JMO

  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by panthera View Post
    So good to see you again, Ocean! I too think there's a lot we don't know and I have issues with the DA's comments. How can he be SO sure? Or is he trying to make her look like a saint for the potential jurors so they'll believe that CL acted alone in killing Maria? This last part you posted is something I think will be a key part of his defense. Despite his note that said Maria killed herself, I wonder if his defense is going to be that his wife had as much motive to kill Maria as the state believes he did?
    Well LTNS, my friend!

    You know what it reminded me of? The way Gloria Alred built up Amber Frey's image and credibility before the trial.

    Sure was a strange thing to witness though coming from a DA. Now her hired defense attorney said what we would expect him to say.

    imoo

  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlover77 View Post
    Dear SS, Yes, I have smelt hair burn before..I have smelled burned dead bodies quite a few times in my life also. I was a firefighter for 12 years. But in this case...I think because there was so much stuff piled on top of the fire opit that u could disquise the odor with various accelerants and him being a Marine, he would I am sure have some knowledge about that type of stuff. Thwe weather would also help because it was in December...a cold time of the year.
    Didn't LE state the 'bodies' were way down and possibly dirt was over them so it was more like the 'bodies' were baked and not burned? I am still concerned about Maria's car being for sale, did anyone ever get a handwriting analysis on this? How did Xtina miss him driving the car for a week? What is her MOS? Is she really that vulnerable? WOW.

  11. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by close_enough View Post
    i guess we're in the minority here, but i've been 'there' before, so it doesn't matter....i too believe that Cesar acted alone, in killing Maria, & that Christina is not involved...even in trying to cover it up, knowingly.....
    Put me in that minority, too.

    Although I think Christina probably helped afterwards, I think it possible for her not to have. I'd have to vote not guilty (of not doing more than what LE said she did) based on the evidence made public.

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes View Post
    Well LTNS, my friend!

    You know what it reminded me of? The way Gloria Alred built up Amber Frey's image and credibility before the trial.

    Sure was a strange thing to witness though coming from a DA. Now her hired defense attorney said what we would expect him to say.

    imoo
    That is a good comparison! Yes, it was very unusual to me also, and I think it was to bolster her credibility for the trial since it's basically going to be her word against whatever his defense puts up. So many in the area as well as on the boards think she was involved so the DA is trying to clear her name, imo.
    Rest in Peace
    Joey, Summer, Gianni & Joseph Mateo


  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes View Post
    I noticed how casually Hudson put that out there.

    He said it was obvious to him that Christina was torn by her love she has for her husband and angry with him for cheating on her. Hmmmmmmm was this a misspeak on Hudson's part or does he know that CAL did indeed have a willing affair with Maria. It sounds to me like he knows they did.

    imoo
    And that's another point of agreement. That phrase ("cheating") isn't usually used when talking about someone who allegedly raped another woman. And there was one time that we know of where it was termed consensual, so the "rape" was probably more of a "date rape" (if even that) than what we normally think of as a rapist. I still think it's possible the "rape" became that when Maria found out he was married and thought she might be pregnant.
    Rest in Peace
    Joey, Summer, Gianni & Joseph Mateo


  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMRUSMC View Post
    Didn't LE state the 'bodies' were way down and possibly dirt was over them so it was more like the 'bodies' were baked and not burned? I am still concerned about Maria's car being for sale, did anyone ever get a handwriting analysis on this? How did Xtina miss him driving the car for a week? What is her MOS? Is she really that vulnerable? WOW.
    I hate to quote myself but my son and I were just talking and 'Pig roast' are real big in North Carolina. I remember now, this is basically what the POS did!

  15. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by panthera View Post
    That is a good comparison! Yes, it was very unusual to me also, and I think it was to bolster her credibility for the trial since it's basically going to be her word against whatever his defense puts up. So many in the area as well as on the boards think she was involved so the DA is trying to clear her name, imo.

    From the polls I have seen coming out of that county DA Hudson is fighting an uphill battle. Every poll I have seen the majority think she is involved in the crime itself. I saw one today and about 3% thought Cesar did this on his own.

    imoo

  16. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by panthera View Post
    And that's another point of agreement. That phrase ("cheating") isn't usually used when talking about someone who allegedly raped another woman. And there was one time that we know of where it was termed consensual, so the "rape" was probably more of a "date rape" (if even that) than what we normally think of as a rapist. I still think it's possible the "rape" became that when Maria found out he was married and thought she might be pregnant.
    Marines talk and she worked in admin also so she had access to records that stated his maritial status. It's like working in an HR department. Being a women, IMO she went to his records ASAP to verify this.

  17. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes View Post
    From the polls I have seen coming out of that county DA Hudson is fighting an uphill battle. Every poll I have seen the majority think she is involved in the crime itself. I saw one today and about 3% thought Cesar did this on his own.

    imoo
    I saw that one too! His defense attorneys should be happy.
    Rest in Peace
    Joey, Summer, Gianni & Joseph Mateo


  18. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes View Post
    From the polls I have seen coming out of that county DA Hudson is fighting an uphill battle. Every poll I have seen the majority think she is involved in the crime itself. I saw one today and about 3% thought Cesar did this on his own.

    imoo
    thanks obe's. she helped paint the 'accent wall' the color of 'Dried Blood'. My wife picks out yellows, pale blues or if in a bold manner shades of bright maroon but not 'Dried Blood Red'. Marines could have painted Scarlet and Gold to be 'Ooh-Rah' but not that, IMO.

  19. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMRUSMC View Post
    Marines talk and she worked in admin also so she had access to records that stated his maritial status. It's like working in an HR department. Being a women, IMO she went to his records ASAP to verify this.
    I forgot she'd have access to his records. I guess that she must have known all along then.
    Rest in Peace
    Joey, Summer, Gianni & Joseph Mateo


  20. #395
    Ocean, I don't see how a fire on top of a grave can cause such damage to a body. The baby's hand was burned completely off which meant the fire had to burn through Maria's abdomen, muscles, uterus, and the placenta to reach that baby. I don't see how heat from a bonfire can do that much damage. I think there had to be an open flame directly on her body. (Sorry for the graphics.)
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  21. #396
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    My God SS... what happened to Maria and the baby was horrific to say the least. To think Christine is STILL concerned over the fact that Cesar cheated on her makes me sick and even more on the side that she is indeed guilty of this crime in some way herself. My husband cheating on me would be the least of my worries if I were in her situation. Your gonna tell me that your husband murdered, buried and cooked another women & her baby (most likely HIS baby) in your back yard and your still fuming over an affair? Christine is guilty as hell, she is still after all this a women scorned! I don't know if maybe she is a little bit retarded or completely psycho?






    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    Ocean, I don't see how a fire on top of a grave can cause such damage to a body. The baby's hand was burned completely off which meant the fire had to burn through Maria's abdomen, muscles, uterus, and the placenta to reach that baby. I don't see how heat from a bonfire can do that much damage. I think there had to be an open flame directly on her body. (Sorry for the graphics.)
    Last edited by Mygirlsadie; 04-14-2008 at 03:18 PM.

  22. #397
    You do raise a valid point. How can she be so selfish to be concerned with him cheating on her in light of what she claims he has done? You would think that it would be the furthest thing from her mind.

    She isn't writing about what a monster she is married to, about how she never knew that side of him capable of this horrific murder, or about how the father of her child is now going to spend the rest of his life in jail. She is writing about how Cesar and Maria were lovers and trying to come to terms with THAT!

    I would say it is totally inappropriate behavior to the nth degree. No woman in her shoes would be dwelling on that part of this story, imo. A woman and baby murdered inside her home with her skull bashed in, throat slashed, burned, then baked should have become her main focus and anger against the man she says that did this crime! Not still be angry he cheated.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  23. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    Ocean, I don't see how a fire on top of a grave can cause such damage to a body. The baby's hand was burned completely off which meant the fire had to burn through Maria's abdomen, muscles, uterus, and the placenta to reach that baby. I don't see how heat from a bonfire can do that much damage. I think there had to be an open flame directly on her body. (Sorry for the graphics.)

    I understand that SS but I don't want to be too graphic either but that really doesn't have to happen.

    I think as Gabriel decomposed and was charred by the trapped heat.... the little hand came loose at the wrist and fell away from the arm. If there were open flames then poor Gabriel's very soft and plyable hand would have burned up quickly since it is so tender. For that little hand to survive there was no open flames in that pit only on top of the ground imo.

    If one builds a raging bonfire above ground it heats the ground below and any cavity where the heat becomes trapped. Now the earth wasn't packed like originally and it is very hard to get dirt back in as solid as it was before the hole was dug even if it is put back in and packed down. I dig holes all the time for my plants and think I have enough dirt but as the dirt settles I have to go back and add more because no matter what unless packed by some type of equipment it will have air pockets of some kind and is never as packed tight as the original undisturbed earth.

    If there had been a flame on top of an open grave there is absolutely no way that any recognizable clothing could be unidentified. Yet the plastic bag which we all know burns quickly and will instantly go poof without any effort even if close to a flame, was found along with being able to identify the shirt color, a bra etc. and the size of the baby outfit was still identifiable. They even took a sample of Maria's hair and hair is the first to burn up quickly if it comes in contact with an open flame. With Maria being placed on her side it brought her body up closer to the above heat from the fire than if she was placed in a totally prone position laying flat.

    Heat of any kind can cause this even when the heat is not directly placed. For example if we cut our ovens down to a low 250 degrees but left it on for hours and hours when cooking .........well you know what I am saying..and like I said I dont want to be too graphic either. Now a bonfire has a much higher temperture than 200 degrees.

    The ME has seen these bodies and so have LE yet LE still maintains that they believe that he did not have intent to burn the bodies and he continued to add dirt as the grave settled. CS said it is their belief that he meant to camouflage where he had buried Maria. If they thought he had intended to do that they would have had no qualms in charging him with desecrating their bodies. If they can tack on a misdemeanor charge for the attempted use of her card they certainly would attach this charge as that offense would be more severe.

    Don't get me wrong....it is a sad and horrible thing what happened to them to start with and to their bodies but I truly feel it was not done as some plan to burn them in an open flame pit...... if that were the case there would be nothing but ashes and maybe bone fragments left. The ME said that Maria's body when recovered was 95 pounds. She had shrunk for her original weight of 140 pounds due to the vast decomposition and charring.

    imoo

  24. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    You do raise a valid point. How can she be so selfish to be concerned with him cheating on her in light of what she claims he has done? You would think that it would be the furthest thing from her mind.

    She isn't writing about what a monster she is married to, about how she never knew that side of him capable of this horrific murder, or about how the father of her child is now going to spend the rest of his life in jail. She is writing about how Cesar and Maria were lovers and trying to come to terms with THAT!

    I would say it is totally inappropriate behavior to the nth degree. No woman in her shoes would be dwelling on that part of this story, imo. A woman and baby murdered inside her home with her skull bashed in, throat slashed, burned, then baked should have become her main focus and anger against the man she says that did this crime! Not still be angry he cheated.
    All of this points to me that she wanted Maria dead, wanted her competition out of the way, and had some sort of hand in it, if she didn't kill her or help him kill her, she at least had knowledge of it and helped with the cover-up. If she was truly innocent, she'd be mad at him for the murder.
    Please help locate Mark Dribin http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=Mark+Dribin and Ilene Misheloff http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...lene+Misheloff and bring them home.



  25. #400
    OK Ocean, I will take your word for it. I guess I really didn't want to consider that all those people were standing around while she smoldered. Which raises another question for me: How did those Marines and others not smell her and the baby "baking and charring"? They were not cooking over that fire. It should have had a stench.

    (I am going back to review reports on the fire. I don't recall specifically what Brown said now.)
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

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