1047 users online (214 members and 833 guests)  


Websleuths News


Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 24
  1. #1

    Drugs Possibly Involved

    I found a site listing possible drugs used:

    The autopsies performed on each victim ruled that the deaths were accidental drownings, based on the fact that no other conclusion could be reached (for more information on determining death by drownings, see "The Role of Diatoms in Medio-Legal Investigations: The History and Contemporary Science and Application of the Diatom Test for Drowning" on page 10). There were no signs of any struggles, no witnesses, and no evidence left behind. Is it possible though that these men were given a drug that made them black out?

    Rohypnol (flunitrazepam) and GHB (gamma hydroxy butyrate) are two well-known central nervous system depressants that have been linked to rapes and, consequently, labeled rape drugs. If the drownings were murders, these drugs explain how there could be no struggle, a quiet disappearance, and a lack of physical evidence left behind.

    Rohypnol is an odorless and tasteless drug that can be dissolved in any drink (Office of National Drug Control Policy [ONDCP], 2003; University of Michigan Wolverine Wellness [UMWW], 2005). Until February 1999, the drug was clear, but the new version contains a blue tint to make it more detectable. However, older versions still exist and are available, and the pill can be camouflaged when mixed with a blue tropical drink or punch (ONDCP, 2003).

    Someone who has ingested Rohypnol will begin to suffer from its effects within 15-20 minutes, and the effects can last as long as 12 hours (ONDCP, 2003). The effects include slowing of psychomotor performance, muscle relaxation, sleepiness, becoming mentally and physically paralyzed, and amnesia (ONDCP, 2003). When the drug is consumed in addition to alcohol, these effects are all intensified and blackouts are common (ONDCP, 2003; UMWW, 2005).

    GHB is a powder drug that quickly dissolves into a clear odorless substance when mixed with liquids (ONDCP, 2002). It has a slightly soapy or salty taste (UMWW, 2005) but is barely detectable when mixed with a drink. Although it is a Schedule I drug, inexpensive ingredients and readily available recipes on the Internet make it easy to produce (Whitten, 2001).

    After taking GHB, an individual will start to be affected within 15-30 minutes, and the effects will last anywhere from 3-6 hours, depending on how much of the drug is consumed (ONDCP, 2002). GHB users often suffer from slowed motor coordination, inhibited balance, impaired speech, unconsciousness, and amnesia (ONDCP, 2002). As with Rohypnol, taking GHB with alcohol exacerbates the drug's effects (ONDCP, 2002).

    Information from the autopsies of the men who drowned was not available, so it is unknown whether they were tested for either of these drugs, but according to the United States Naval Criminal Investigative Service (USNCIS) (n.d.), Rohypnol is not usually tested for in autopsies and, according to numerous sources, neither is GHB (Hiller & Godlaski, n.d.; USNCIS; Whitten, 2001).

    Even if the autopsies did actually test for these drugs, they might have not shown up in the victims' systems. During the compilation of this article, several pathologists and toxicologists were asked the question, "If someone who has taken Rohypnol dies, how long will the drug be detectable in their system?" It has been determined that Rohypnol is detectable in the blood of an individual for up to 12 hours and in the urine for up to 72 hours (ONDCP, 2003; UMWW, 2005), but according to Madira Webster, an expert toxicologist, there doesn't seem to be a known answer for how long the drug will be detectable in the postmortem period (personal communication, May 5, 2006). That doesn't even take into consideration a body that has been decomposing in the water for several days, weeks, or even months. GHB is even harder to detect and remains in a user's body for an even shorter amount of time than Rohypnol (ONDCP, 2002).

    http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-150862797.html
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    29,161
    Good stuff, SS!

    Salem

  3. #3
    Armchairsleuth posted this about the smiley face: http://www.ecstasydata.org/viewtablet.php?ID=472
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    164
    SS, I have been mulling this subject in my mind for the past few days. The frustration in being an armchair detective is that we do not have access to important basic information-such as the complete toxicology reports. I think most drugs that cause delirium or severe confusion such as GHB or Rohypnol would probably not be detected anyway. These cases are confusing because of the number of them and the fact that some may really be accidental. Nonetheless, I think many are intentional and I believe they are pre-meditated and the victim is drugged. I have noticed that in many cases, the victims are described as losing things, misplacing things or having another sort of episode before disappearing. Intoxicated people behave this way, but they tend not to notice that they've lost something until the next day. These men have returned for coats, wallets etc. and their unusual behavior indicates that maybe even they are aware, at some level, that they are not simply drunk. So, I have chosen to consider that the emn were drugged and then consider the case from that point of view. I think that will help the other pieces of the puzzle to fit in easier.
    This premise indicates:
    1. It is pre-meditated
    2. The perpretrator(s) realize that they cannot control a young, strong man in his normal or even drunken state, so he is incapacitated further

    Could the muderer be a female? In that state a young man might accept help from a woman. Smiley faces tend to be a female symbol. Men are not as inclined to wear or draw them. The smiley face has a crown, a princess in a tiara?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    33,799
    Indigator, I saw your thread about tox info. I would love to get my hands on those!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    164
    Scott Radel-"Radel was supposed to meet his roommates at the Press Bar and was asking them for directions, police said.
    Radel told his roommates he had left McRudy's Bar and Pub and could see the Paramount sign and a bank from where he was standing at the time of the call.
    Roommates said Radel did not show up at the bar"


    Jared Dion-"His friend got on the bus and when he looked back, Jared was nowhere to be found. "

    Eric Blair-"The Delta College student from Bay City had been walking with the group on River Street near Water's Edge Drive when the group bumped into some other friends from Central Michigan University. After talking for a while, they noticed that Blair was gone."

    Glen Leadley-"His father, Gary Leadley, says his son allegedly told friends he wasn't feeling well and was leaving to catch a cab."

    Michael Noll-"The University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire student was last seen "highly intoxicated" by an elderly woman who said he mistakenly walked into her house near the Chippewa River, then left."

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    164
    I posted the above as examples of unusual behavior, confusion etc. At the very least, the drowning victims who displayed unusual behavior on the night of their disappearances should be investigated further. These behaviors even in an intoxicated individual are not NORMAL.

  8. #8
    I agree. The actions are not normal of someone who is under the influence of only alcohol, imo.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    32,579
    This article actually is not connected to this case except to show that the 'drug' (if there is one) could be just a 'cold medicine.' PLUS, it COULD be more than one unknown suspect. ALSO, this article is for 'women,' but it would be just as effective on a 'male.'

    JMHO
    fran


    http://www.km3news.com/Global/story.asp?S=8281662

    Bartender Angelia Hartman has seen 25-year-old Aaron Freeman in bars before. He's the man who, police say, was putting over-the-counter cold medication in women's drinks.

    ..........snip..............

    Police tell Action 3 News they are still looking for more suspects.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    33,799
    Below is a vid provide by Vermont from the Nick Garza thread. It's regarding the smiley connection between Nick and Tommy Booth. BUT...the ME says that if Tommy was drugged with GHB, it would have passed through his system before the autopsy.

    http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?se...cal&id=6131011


  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    164
    Suzie, Just saw that as well. So, I am assuming that all these men were drugged. In some ways it seems like an inside job but that doesn't make so much sense. There is something missing.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    164
    Motive for inside job? In all cases, this isn't jiving.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    33,799
    I don't know if in all cases. I think in a confusing, crowded and noisy situation drinks can be tainted by someone nearby. However, did you see the post I made about my ex- bf? Long story short, he's too old to be connected, but, he was sitting with very good friends all night, suddenly felt sick and excused himself to the bathroom. The next day he finds himself at home in bed. Comparing notes his friends said he started raising cain by the bathrooms and they all got kicked out. He wasn't falling down drunk but very angry. They all concluded someone tainted his drink. But they couldn't figure out who other than someone behind the bar, because someone was always at the table. Another poster here theorized that whoever drugged his drink tried to steer him outside creating the rucus which is why my ex-bf got combative. Good theory, IMO. Weird huh?

    ETA: why would they have tried to get him outside? Robbery is my guess.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    33,799
    Quote Originally Posted by Indigator View Post
    I posted the above as examples of unusual behavior, confusion etc. At the very least, the drowning victims who displayed unusual behavior on the night of their disappearances should be investigated further. These behaviors even in an intoxicated individual are not NORMAL.
    I just saw your post. In many cases the sudden get up and leave their friends and ride home is puzzling. And in one case waiting for a girl in the bathroom to give her a ride home. The only thing I can think of is they suddenly don't feel well and they walk away from their safety net and become vics.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    164
    Exactly what I am thinking. Feeling ill and want to get out and then possibly exiting through the BACK door which might be more convenient in a crowded bar and/or closer to the toilets.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 113
    Last Post: 09-21-2009, 08:42 PM