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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    32,579
    IMO, one thing that would really make you want to make an exit unobserved is if you felt your were going to be sick to your stomach.

    Another case I studied that they feel is connected is that several people were offering rides home. Just the RIGHT ONE would be the trick. ALSO, I've noticed a few where there were cabs involved.

    It COULD be a 'team,' where one is behind the bar or with access to drinks, another outside the bar, or a RIDE. Of course we've also seen a few where the bouncer scooted them out without coat, cell phone, or wallet.

    THREE people, behind the bar, door, car,...........enough to do it!

    Just thinkin',
    fran

    PS.........motive.........they're jeolous of the students. (accomplishments and opportunities offered) Maybe?

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    freedom
    Posts
    680

    the smiley face connection

    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    Armchairsleuth posted this about the smiley face: http://www.ecstasydata.org/viewtablet.php?ID=472

    I am a little slow reading all the posts and catching up but that picture is stunning.

    So the victims are being drugged with ghb/rophy or similar that is branded with the smiley face and this is the reason for the smiley face graffiti. I have been wondering why in the world the smiley face graffiti as it seemd like a strange tag to use - now we know.
    Scaaaaaarey

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ArizonaGiGi View Post
    I got this off of a website called doctordeluca.com ;


    "11
    UI - 13
    AU - Kalasinsky KS
    AU - Dixon MM
    AU - Schmunk GA
    AU - Kish SJ
    AD - Office of the Armed Forces Medical Examiner, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, Rockville, MD 20850, USA. kalasink@afip.osd.mil
    TI - Blood, brain, and hair GHB concentrations following fatal ingestion
    AB - Despite the increasing incidence of illicit use of gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB), little information is available documenting levels of the drug in GHB fatalities. We measured GHB levels in postmortem blood, brain and hair specimens from a suspected overdose case by gas chromatography/mass spectrometry (GC/MS) following solid phase extraction (SPE) and derivatization with bis(trimethyl-silyl) trifluoroacetamide (BSTFA). Examination found 330 microg/mL GHB in femoral blood and 221 ng/mg GHB in frontal cortex brain tissue, values higher than those typically reported in the literature. The hair shaft was negative for GHB whereas the plucked root bulbs with outer root sheath attached (2,221 ng/mg) and root bulbs after washing and removal of the outer root sheath (47 ng/mg) contained the drug.Our results are consistent with an acute single dose of GHB and, as the toxicology screen was negative for other drugs of abuse, emphasize the significant danger of this drug
    UR - PM:11373018
    SO - J Forensic Sci 2001 May ;46(3):728-730"

    *********
    The above test was done on a GHB fatal overdose subject so perhaps that's why the GHB showed up in the first place (that non-fatal doses do not show up).

    -Makes me think that the victims might have died from an overdose of GHB and that is why there is so little water in their lungs.
    -Wonder if ME tested victims hair ROOT for GHB?


    Great work, Arizona!
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,761
    They should also be testing the victims for any Ambien/Zolpidem in their systems; it would have a similiar effect as GHB/Roofies especially when combined with alcohol and could be potentially fatal depending on how many mgs were used and how much alcohol was drank. The symptoms these men exhibited; especially the one who walked into an elderly woman's house; being disoriented sound more like effects of ambien, as opposed to being drunk.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1

    Ambien

    Agree - I have done stupid things while taking Ambien (silly emails and calls, web posts, etc). I can;lt imagine the trouble I could get in if I was slipped an Ambien while out drinking. I might easily walk into someones home and not know it.

    PS - I don;t take Ambien anymore!

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    59
    a stunner would steal those split seconds you would need to defend yourself.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    59
    and then what about the points in time from when the victims are last seen outside on a street somewhere until they are found in water.
    are they put in a car?van?both?then what?are they so drugged that they just sit in the car?or sleep in the back seat?
    or do they place them in the trunk?when a vehicle is involved?

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,725
    So, I've been trying to read everything on this thread.....wow! Its alot. Great work. I didn't notice Visine listed here. Everyone believes it will give you diarrhea, but according to Wikipedia that is not so....
    **************************************************
    ~snipped & BBM~
    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visine[/ame]


    Visine Prank
    A common urban legend is that a few drops of Visine in an unsuspecting victim's drink will cause a harmless bout of diarrhea. This will not produce diarrhea, but oral administration of Visine can induce dangerous side effects related to Visine's ingredient tetrahydrozoline hydrochloride such as:

    Dangerously low body temperature (hypothermia)
    Blurred vision
    Nausea and vomiting
    Difficulty in breathing or even a complete halt in breathing
    Elevating (hypertension) then dropping (hypotension) blood pressure
    Possible coma
    Seizures and tremors


    Pfizer recommends that anyone ingesting Visine get medical attention or contact a poison control center immediately.
    ************************************************** *

    I didn't check anywhere, but it would seem to me that tetrahydrozoline hydrochloride wouldn't be a usual and customary thing to check on autopsy, especially if you don't routinely check for GHB. The hyper/hypotension would definitely make someone loopy and easier to control......what if Visine were being slipped into drinks, the guy gets sick, and some "good samaritan" offers to "help", guides them out, into car........rest is history. Just speculation.
    My posts and their content are MY OPINION unless I have provided a link
    and are not to be copied and pasted to other sites or pages without my permission.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Alma, Québec, Canada
    Posts
    7
    Unfortunately, many of the potent drugs that can incapacitate someone very easily are also quick to pass through the system and are intracable in a matter of a couple of hours maybe a day... I am wondering if it was ever stated if there were any marks found on the bodies that could indicate an injection site... Ketamine, opiods or Heroin could also be a way to incapacitate an athletic young man. I think I recall reading somewhere that the symptoms of drunkness some of the presumed victims exhibited were over the top considering the amount of alcohol that was allegealy consumed...

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