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  1. #1
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    Bad News or Overdramatization?

    As children from the Fundamentalist LDS Church settled into new foster homes this weekend, the whereabouts of two young boys remains uncertain.
    Child welfare workers in Texas say they're not worried. But the mother of the boys and attorneys representing the mothers are not sure whether they should be or not.

    "We just don't know where they are," Cynthia Martinez told the Deseret News Saturday.
    http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695274226,00.html

    On this one, I am thinking the alleged mothers forgot what name they told CPS.

    At least three children taken from a polygamous sect's ranch are in the hospital and attorneys for their mothers say they have received little or no information about their conditions.
    Attorneys for Texas RioGrande Legal Aid (TRLA) are working to identify the children, the hospitals, and to arrange for their mothers to visit the children.
    http://www.sltrib.com/faith/ci_9075298

    On this one I am wondering if there isn't some overdramatization. Allegedly the parents aren't being given any info- but they seem to have a lot of info. And according to the doctors who examined the children early on, the children were healthy. But CPS has announced that the kids had chicken pox, and I am thinking that using an abundance of caution that the CPS is taking extra precautions on the sick kids and taking kids to the hospital if there is any problems at all. It will take time for the chicken pox to run it's course.

  2. #2
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    I believe the FLDS propaganda machine is coming out in full force. I think they're purposely trying to gain public sympathy and distorting the real situation.

    In regards to the two boys who are allegedly missing, I think it's likely the mother lied about their names, as so many have done, and is now using their real names and reporting that those two (real names) are missing. They are probably among the children who've been placed in homes, under the false names the mother originally gave.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leila View Post
    I believe the FLDS propaganda machine is coming out in full force. I think they're purposely trying to gain public sympathy and distorting the real situation.

    In regards to the two boys who are allegedly missing, I think it's likely the mother lied about their names, as so many have done, and is now using their real names and reporting that those two (real names) are missing. They are probably among the children who've been placed in homes, under the false names the mother originally gave.
    I have a few questions for Mom
    ....WHERE ARE THE BIRTH CERTIFICATES?
    What are the boy's LEGAL NAMES?
    Their Social Security #?
    DOB?
    Did you do DNA??
    Who is their BIO father?
    What NAMES did you use when CPS took custody of your children?
    Did the boys CALL you Mother - or did they come in with some other woman that they ID'd as their mother?

    I'm sorry - I can prove my DOGS and CATS are mine and this Mother can't seem to provide any tangible PROOF to verify for CPS which boys are her sons??? NO WONDER CPS isn't giving her any information about these children - she may not even be able to prove she IS THEIR MOTHER!!!

    We don't have any PROOF (right now) that she has ANY children in the custody of CPS. It's just HER WORD that CPS has her sons and they are now "missing". This Mother SAYS CPS has her sons (proof?) - but knows somehow now that they are "lost" (if CPS isn't giving her any info, how does she know they are "lost"?).

    Again - NORMAL RULES don't apply - and it isn't the fault of CPS either. How is CPS supposed to verify the welfare of 2 "random" boys among 462 kids when we KNOW that the children have lied about EVERYTHING - including their name, age and who their parents are? Which LIE do you believe? And if CPS produced her sons today, how would their mother PROVE they were, (or were not), her sons. How would CPS KNOW that the Mother was being truthful - ya know with NO DOCUMENTATION or DNA CPS could trot out 100 boys - only to have the Mother say "nope, they aren't here".

    I am sure that IF she has two sons and CPS took custody of them, that CPS still has custody of them and they are safe. I am sure that once she can PROVE which boys are hers (without a doubt) - CPS will be happy to keep her informed of their welfare.

    This Mom is just stirring up a dust-storm in hopes that while we're all running around focused on the dust in the air, we'll forget that NORMAL families would experience NONE of these issues.I am SURE the FLDS Leaders did a bit of research and saw that CPS has had issues in the past with kids in the system being "lost" and CPS not knowing where they are FOR SURE...and yes..bad things sometimes happened. It's just a way to get the public on their side - and wanna bet once these kids are verified OK, this will drop away like in never existed - only to be replaced with another "urban myth" story - maybe the one with the "bloody hook" hanging from the car door??

    This is NOT a story, it's a piece of propaganda - it's a diversion by the FLDS to make us forget that the REAL story is almost 50 underage girls pregnant or with children. This won't stand up to even the most vague of investigations by the REAL media (or even amateur sleuths) because it's a work of fiction....but it doesn't have to - because the FLDS knows from experience that MOST people won't look past the surface - the FLDS is COUNTING ON the support of other strongly religious people who also fear persecution and the stripping of their religious freedoms. THIS is genius - feed the fear and hysteria and you'll get a much bigger group of people to stand around YOU and protect you, while you do nothing but rouse the rabble every so often. And one day the crowd will finally turn inward and find that the thing/person/ideal they were so focused on protecting...slipped away in the night while they weren't looking and is now nowhere to be found......

    My Opinion

  4. #4
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    I think that this is the first of a lot of tactics we'll see to just stir stuff up and try to turn public opinion against the state of Texas.

  5. #5
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    I started thinking of the IRONY of them claiming that CPS lost taken children ...

    Seems like the group has LOST a few hundred or so of their children intentionally ... i.e., THE LOST BOYS.

  6. #6
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    Not just the boys, there are those girls who tried to run several times who were retrieved by the local LE which was FLDS, and they ended up in the river tied together with their arms around each other. How many other of the girls were "thrown away" in this manner? Were there any boys that were "thrown away" in this manner?

  7. #7
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    The way things stand right now, I'm not willing to believe anything that comes from the flds camp. Many have their heads together right now trying to come up with ideas to make Tx look bad. I'm sure more will be said and tried.
    Me thinks the days of lying and intimidating others to get your way isn't going to work, at least in Tx.

    VB

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mollymalone View Post
    Not just the boys, there are those girls who tried to run several times who were retrieved by the local LE which was FLDS, and they ended up in the river tied together with their arms around each other. How many other of the girls were "thrown away" in this manner? Were there any boys that were "thrown away" in this manner?
    Since they didn't ever have birth certificates, who's to say how many children could just be discarded. A child could be born on the compound, live there without ever leaving the gates and done away with if they became to much of a bother. Who out here would even know that child ever existed?

    VB

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas Bride View Post
    Since they didn't ever have birth certificates, who's to say how many children could just be discarded. A child could be born on the compound, live there without ever leaving the gates and done away with if they became to much of a bother. Who out here would even know that child ever existed?

    VB
    This crosses my mind. disposable children. it's a horror story.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floh View Post
    This crosses my mind. disposable children. it's a horror story.
    Yes it is, and what about that cemetery where the babies are buried, how did those babies die? Was anyone ever notified when there was a death? I'm betting no birth certificate = no death certificate.

    VB


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas Bride View Post
    Yes it is, and what about that cemetery where the babies are buried, how did those babies die? Was anyone ever notified when there was a death? I'm betting no birth certificate = no death certificate.

    VB
    I won't be betting against you.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas Bride View Post
    Yes it is, and what about that cemetery where the babies are buried, how did those babies die? Was anyone ever notified when there was a death? I'm betting no birth certificate = no death certificate.

    VB
    As it applies to the UTAH/AZ FLDS in Hilldale and Colorado City I am sure that if they NEEDED a STATE SANCTIONED Death Certificate, one of the FLDS Drs would be HAPPY to give them one - stating SIDS or some other innocuous cause of death. It may be that there IS paperwork for those deaths - but the PROBLEM is that the whole AREA belongs to the FLDS - the DRs, the Coroner, the Police...EVERYONE. The officials will do/say what they are TOLD by the leadership. THAT isn't the case everywhere, but it certainly is in Hilldale and Colorado City. The FLDS has effectively taken over the Govt and all the public services in those towns.

    In Texas I believe they also have their own Dr at the ranch...at least SOME of the time. I presume if an ADULT died, that the state would get involved but there is no guarantee - it's pretty easy to hide or disappear without a trace if you barely existed in the eyes of the Govt to begin with.

    The women do not usually give birth at hospitals so if they don't want to register the birth, there is no mechanism to FORCE them to do so. I am MOST concerned that all the births and deaths of infants are NOT BEING RECORDED at ANY of the FLDS properties. Since the women are "single mothers" and have no INCOME (pay no taxes) the Govt would not be too interested in their children's records - they are "off the grid" so to speak. The women might register 5 kids legally (to get WIC and Food Stamps) and NOT REGISTER 5 more. Who Knows???

    It's a MESS and it's just going to get WORSE - we have just scratched the surface.

    My Opinion

  13. #13
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    May I ask y'all to take a leap and imagine that CPS has lost two of the children? It is not unheard of for that to happen - and I feel sure CPS was not entirely ready for the onslaught of charges.

    If CPS had lost two children, would y'all feel any sympathy at all for the children and their mothers or would you just say its their own fault?

  14. #14
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    It sems to me that there are many young men from the FLDS who are unaccounted for. Where are all of these "lost boys" who were forced to leave? Why aren't they coming forth, now that the evils of the FLDS have been exposed?

    I suspect that while some of these young men may have escaped or been forced out, others may have been beaten to death or purposely murdered. I would also be interested to know if there are more male babies buried at the ranch than female.

    Warren Jeffs and his cohorts seem to have been making the rules as they went along; claiming to have received "word from God" whenever they needed a new rule to justify whatever behavior suited them at the time. Any human who would deliberately blaspheme God should have no problem justifying murder.

    I think there needs to be some kind of public outreach to see if we can get more male survivors to speak up, if they are out there. They may have been privy to inner workings of the cult not accessible to the women. They are needed as witnesses to reveal the truth and help protect the children from being returned to mothers incapable of protecting them from abuse.

    Susan

  15. #15
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    The thought just crossed my mind on the two "lost" boys. What if they are really lost. But it happened before the raid? What if the older boy was driven off the ranch and the child died? Wouldn't it convenient to cover that by blaming "the state and CPS"?

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