1129 users online (198 members and 931 guests)  


Websleuths News


Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 70
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    3,053

    Names

    During the 1998 interviews Patsy was asked if she knew any of the people whose names were about to be read to her, and if so what did she know about them. Here's the list of names. If there's no comment following the name it means there was no response by Patsy. I have paraphrased most of the responses for the sake of brevity. In some cases the names are phonetically pronounced:

    ADULTS

    Manfred Thornton

    Dale Flint -- "That rings a bell."

    Daniel Melifit

    Chris Wolf -- "I have heard his name."

    Rob Clemens

    Brian Gilmore

    Edwin Danover

    Jack Logan

    Otto Riggata

    Richard Lichtenhill

    Michael Rightson

    Ron Bloom

    Gary Oliva

    Rodney Wilson

    Frank Harrell

    Isaac Webster

    Jeffrey Simpson

    Keith Brown

    Thomas Silvie

    Ray Fitzgerald -- "He is the master at the Cancer Institute at Bethesda."

    Michael Helgoth

    Donald Bartlett

    Gilberto Rubio -- "He made the gingerbread house. He's been in our house."

    Bob Wallace -- "He did floral decorations for the house in 1994."

    Brian Perry -- "He's the church sexton and custodian. He didn't keep the place clean so I complained about his work. He lived free on church property and had an art studio under the church."

    NEIGHBORHOOD CHILDREN

    Luke Vermeil -- "We called him Big Luke (we called Luke Fernie Little Luke). He was goodlooking and soft-spoken. JonBenet had a crush on him and would get flushed when he was around. Luke played with Burke and JonBenet, but he was older so I sort of kept an eyeball there."

    Wes Gibbons -- "He was about 2 years older than Burke and he and some other boys would congregate in the house after school to play video games and such."

    Evan Colby -- "He was about one year older than Burke. He spent a lot of time and made himself at home in our house, and helped himself to things in the refrigerator."

    Kai Colby -- "He was about three years older than Burke. The Colby boys spent a lot of time at our house."

    EDITED: Joey Stanton -- "He was about Burke's age. He used to come over and play."

    EDITED: Fleet White -- "He was about Burke's age and they lived two doors up the street. They moved out prior to December of 1996."

    Several of the names, of course (like Wolf, Oliva, and Helgoth), we now know a lot about, but most of them are obscure to us. Why the cops listed these names to inquire about isn't publicly known, but if anyone has any additional tidbits of info about any of them it might make an interesting discussion.

    JMO

    EDITED to add Joey Stanton and Fleet White to the list.
    Last edited by BlueCrab; 04-03-2004 at 04:51 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    US
    Posts
    1,599
    Interesting thread, BC.

    Is Toth's "Flippy Esso" alias one of the names you listed?

    IMO

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    3,053
    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah
    Interesting thread, BC.

    Is Toth's "Flippy Esso" alias one of the names you listed?

    IMO
    Nehemiah,

    I've never heard of Toth's "Flippy Esso". I guess I missed it, if you're joking. Can you give us a little more info? I'm slow.

    JMO

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    maryland
    Posts
    1,832
    When Mike Mcelroy was interviewed he was asked if he knew
    Kim Mckloskey
    Jason Mueller
    Robin Hale
    and another that I will remember ..
    His comment was..they show no interest in following up on these people ..but this is your heads up..in his "heads up " letter.
    Just what was the purpose of the BPD to "throw" around names ?
    IMO

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    2,199
    BC, "Flippy Esso" is the nickname Toth gave a man who once did some painting in the Ramseys' basement. Toth thinks he might be the "intruder."

    Post 85 on page 4 of the "Question re Ransom Note" thread by poco.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ivy
    The painter... Spoofy Popo? Snarky Bimbam? Darn, what was his WS nickname? Toth, what did you name him to protect his identity? Anyway, twilight, I don't know if the painter's palm print was checked, but apparently it doesn't matter if Melinda's was a match to the basement door palm print.

    Toth's response: I named him "Flippy Esso" which is a moniker I hung on him because a psychiatric social worker described him as having "flipped out" soon after the murder and he was known as a Sex Offender, which is where the SO (esso) came from. Everyone knows his initials, many know his first name, everyone knows how many letters are in his surname but he is to be referred to as Flippy Esso. Even suspected creeps may have turned their lives around in the interim and do not deserve to be dragged through the mud needlessly.

    by the way, the palm print has not been matched to ANY person: male, female, young, old, tall, short, fat or thin.


    IMO (The IMO is Ivy's, not Toth's, but I guess that goes without saying.)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    maryland
    Posts
    1,832
    Toth is right about the palm print,there were several and one has not been matched to anyone,but a little known swipe with odd placement was one reason behind the late tracing of Jonbenet's hand.
    We have,to my knowledge no other information concerning this swipe,only conjecture that it would be at a level indicating she was alive ,alert and being carried ,if indeed it was her hand.
    The hair ,the print and the shoe print have NOT been matched to a Ramsey.
    The list of people is disturbing,not the lists above ,but the list of "whacos" involved in the life of Jonbenet. I hope all of you have read Singular's book,not that he has it right,but within all of the books there is likely a hint of what really happened.
    Beckner said "this isn't how it looks",Simon says,"I know what happened but have no insider knowledge"?,Priscilla tells Patsy," I know more"...
    What was going on in Boulder?
    Gaffer's tape ! maybe this is the clue?
    IMO

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,058
    Quote Originally Posted by sissi
    Toth is right about the palm print,there were several and one has not been matched to anyone
    Toth right???...NEVER!

    A palm print on the door leading to that same wine cellar, long unidentified, is that of Melinda Ramsey, JonBenet's adult half-sister. She was in Georgia at the time of the murder.
    L. Lin Wood, the attorney representing the Ramseys, who now live in Atlanta, doesn't debate the palm print findings.

    http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...342847,00.html

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    maryland
    Posts
    1,832
    IMO this story was misleading,yet not totally false. If there were four prints on that door,and one was identified as Melinda's a reporter would have the right to report it as a headline,"print on door belongs to Melinda Ramsey,however he would not have to reveal that there was at least one unidentified print that remains a mystery.

    He does have his sources..doesn't he.......His first "story" caused a nation to suspect an innocent family.

    'Snow at Ramsey House Lacked Footprints' by Charlie Brennan, Rocky Mountain News, March 11, 1997, 'Police who went to JonBenet Ramsey's home the morning she was reported missing found no footprints in the snow surrounding the house, sources said Monday.
    IMO

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,058
    Quote Originally Posted by sissi
    His first "story" caused a nation to suspect an innocent family.
    Since that "innocent" family remains the only suspects in the crime, I would say that reporter was pretty damn clairvoyant.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    3,053
    Quote Originally Posted by sissi

    'Snow at Ramsey House Lacked Footprints' by Charlie Brennan, Rocky Mountain News, March 11, 1997, 'Police who went to JonBenet Ramsey's home the morning she was reported missing found no footprints in the snow surrounding the house, sources said Monday.
    IMO
    The police report (Sgt. Reichenbach) and reporter Charlie Brennan were correct.

    There WAS snow surrounding the house, and there were NO footprints in the snow. But that's a tricky statement. It was a dusting of snow that fell early that morning and was on top of patchy crusty snow that had been on the ground for days. Even though the temperature was about 10 degrees, the dusting apparently began to melt in places even before the sun came up because of the warmth in the ground.

    By daylight the dusting was gone and only the crusty patches of melting snow remained. Depending on what time the dusting began to melt, a fifth person in the house that night could have escaped and not have left any footprints by stepping only on the melted areas and avoiding areas still covered by snow. Reichenbach's statement said "There was a very light dusting of snow and frost on the exposed grass in the yard". The wording leaves it unclear whether the dusting still covered all of the yard or whether some had already melted by 6:00 A.M. when he had arrived. In either event, Reichenbach said he saw no footprints in the snow.

    JMO


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    2,199
    BlueCrab, a while back you posted that tire tracks that might have been from a bicycle were found in snow in the Ramseys' front yard. Anything new on that, as far as you know?

    imo

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,058
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    NEIGHBORHOOD CHILDREN
    I wonder where LE would have gotten a list of kid's names that they wouldn't have known who they were. Or did they know who these kids were and just want to see how Patsy responded to them bringing their names up?

  13. #13

    Shylock and Ivy

    Shylock-The list of names came from the April 1997 BPD interviews.

    Ivy- The bicycle track reference came from John Ramsey's 1998 interview with Lou Smit. Smit showed Ramsey a picture taken by the BPD early in the morning of of 12/26/96. I have never seen any other reference to the bike tracks.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    3,053
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy
    BlueCrab, a while back you posted that tire tracks that might have been from a bicycle were found in snow in the Ramseys' front yard. Anything new on that, as far as you know?

    Nothing new that I know about. There definitely were bicycle tracks in the snow across the front lawn. Both John and Patsy attribute the tracks to the likelihood of Burke riding his bike there on Christmas Day. Patsy said JonBenet rode her new bike only on the back patio.

    PATSY (reviewing crime scene photos): "This is the yard, the front yard. I see tracks here in the snow."

    TOM HANEY: "Do you know what would have caused that?"

    PATSY: "I don't know, unless Burke rode his bicycle out there."

    In one version of my theory about a fifth person in the house that night, I theorized that the perp escaped by bicycle, leaving tracks across the front lawn. Although possible, I don't think Burke would have ridden his bike in the snow. Also, Patsy had gotten a new bike for Christmas (as had John and JonBenet, but not Burke) and it may have been stolen the night of the murder. It's hard to determine for sure, but here's how the questioning went:

    LOU SMIT: "You know, I've looked at a lot of pictures in regards to this particular case and I can't remember seeing any bikes. What happened to the bikes?"

    JOHN RAMSEY: "Well, they were in the garage, I guess. JonBenet rode her bike for a moment outside before we went to the White's; just around the patio. I'm sure that went back in the garage. Patsy's bike, I don't know, it could have gone in the garage. I don't remember."

    LOU SMIT: Have you seen it since, Patsy's bike?"

    JOHN RAMSEY: "Yeah, we have it."

    LOU SMIT: "(inaudible) took it?"

    JOHN RAMSEY: "No. We gave JonBenet's bike away. Patsy's bike we haven't (inaudible)."

    JMO

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    3,053

    Richard

    Okay, WHO is Richard? Tom Haney was showing pictures of black shirts to Patsy:

    PATSY: "And this was Rich's shirt. (inaudible) shirt. Richard's shirt."

    TOM HANEY: "Okay. And would you have known which one John would have worn that night?"

    PATSY: "No. These are, you know, (inaudible) black."

    TOM HANEY: "Sure."


    There was a Richard Lichtenhill (sp?) on the list the cops used to question Patsy to find out if she recognized any of the names and to comment on the person if she did recognize a name. When it came to Richard Lichtenhill's name Patsy said "No". So who is Richard? And why did Patsy so easily recognize a picture of a black shirt in a photograph as belonging to Richard?

    The list of names were asked of Patsy on day one of the 1998 interviews. The comment about Richard's black shirt was made by Patsy on day three of the 1998 interviews.

    Was this another slip of the tongue by Patsy? Who is Richard, and was his name intended to be kept incognito? Is he Richard Lichtenhill?

    JMO

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast