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  1. #1
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    The FEDS

    I'm just speechless here. The basic argument not to start a Federal Task force to investigate FLDS is that bigamy, polygamy, rape and incest are all state level crimes. However, that's intentionally turning a blind eye to a bunch of other areas that the Feds could certainly step in and investigate.

    http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695275674,00.html

    Federal authorities have been probing allegations of crimes involving the Fundamentalist LDS Church and its leader Warren Jeffs for years but have been unable to develop enough probable cause to launch a full-scale investigation or bring charges.
    .............
    In an extensive interview with the Deseret News on Thursday, Tolman and Tim Fuhrman, the special agent-in-charge of the Salt Lake City office of the FBI, detailed their efforts to investigate crimes within the FLDS Church. They also spoke against the need for a federal task force on polygamy-related crimes, despite a push by the U.S. Senate majority leader and the Utah and Arizona attorneys general.

    "The crimes that are being alleged or that there is suspicion, these are predominantly state crimes," Tolman said. "I think it's a rush to judgment to think that a federal task force is the answer."

  2. #2
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    I had a thought about this last night. Not only is Utah state authorities against a task force, but the Utah FBI is also against it. The FBI served a search warrant in Texas FLDS soon after the raid. Since the warrant was sealed, there is no way to determine what that is about. Could it be that Utah FBI already has something in progress? That perhaps they fear that if a federal task force is set up that it might delay whatever they are working on while they are organizing the task force?

  3. #3
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    Then again we have this:

    Spurned by Texas, a spokesman for a polygamous sect is now reaching out to the governor of Utah for help.
    FLDS member Willie Jessop this week sent Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. a letter extending an invitation to visit the YFZ Ranch in western Texas. He also asks Huntsman to intervene on behalf of Utah residents whose identities are disputed and whose children were taken during an April 3 raid at the ranch.
    Lisa Roskelley, spokeswoman for Huntsman, on Friday confirmed his office received the letter.

    snip... Jessop said at least 10 children in Texas custody are residents of Utah and were visiting the ranch with their parents.
    The letter also asks the governor for help getting Utah birth certificates and driver licenses recognized as official documents.

    snip....Utah residents, the letter said, are "currently being held hostage by the state of Texas. . . . Without your leadership and personal intervention in this matter, the parental rights of every Utah family is at risk."
    http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9140851

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysteriew View Post
    I had a thought about this last night. Not only is Utah state authorities against a task force, but the Utah FBI is also against it. The FBI served a search warrant in Texas FLDS soon after the raid. Since the warrant was sealed, there is no way to determine what that is about. Could it be that Utah FBI already has something in progress? That perhaps they fear that if a federal task force is set up that it might delay whatever they are working on while they are organizing the task force?
    How may of the Feds in the Utah office are LDS?? The LDS has historically "avoided" pushing ANY significant actions against the FLDS...out of shame I believe. They are afraid that the association and historical links between the current LDS and the more "old school" FLDS will raise questions and create negative opinion with the PUBLIC about the LDS - even tho they are a separate and different church. The two churches do share the same origins and MANY of the beliefs are the same - the FLDS just seems to take everything to the extreme edge Most people have no clue about EITHER the LDS or FLDS and what the differences are - they might indeed assume that the two share more beliefs than they do. The LDS has historically FOUGHT against ANYTHING that would bring attention to the FLDS - thinking that the negative perception of the FLDS would make people question the LDS.

    IMO the LDS MUST stop trying to hide their polygamous past and stop trying to hide the beliefs of the faith - people only fear what they don't know. Instead of HIDING and trying to deny the past and the tenets of their faith, the LDS should encourage open discussion and honesty - I think the public capable of understanding the differences if presented in a simple and open manner. And the LDS MUST OPENLY and LOUDLY DENOUNCE the FLDS and ANY belief that is ILLEGAL or ABUSIVE. They LDS CHURCH and all of it's members should publicly support ANY action by the FBI and LE to STAMP OUT the illegal and abusive FLDS as they currently exist.

    My Opinion

  5. #5
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    This whole thing has been made into such a political hot-potato.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlowerChild View Post
    How may of the Feds in the Utah office are LDS?? The LDS has historically "avoided" pushing ANY significant actions against the FLDS...out of shame I believe. They are afraid that the association and historical links between the current LDS and the more "old school" FLDS will raise questions and create negative opinion with the PUBLIC about the LDS - even tho they are a separate and different church. The two churches do share the same origins and MANY of the beliefs are the same - the FLDS just seems to take everything to the extreme edge Most people have no clue about EITHER the LDS or FLDS and what the differences are - they might indeed assume that the two share more beliefs than they do. The LDS has historically FOUGHT against ANYTHING that would bring attention to the FLDS - thinking that the negative perception of the FLDS would make people question the LDS.

    IMO the LDS MUST stop trying to hide their polygamous past and stop trying to hide the beliefs of the faith - people only fear what they don't know. Instead of HIDING and trying to deny the past and the tenets of their faith, the LDS should encourage open discussion and honesty - I think the public capable of understanding the differences if presented in a simple and open manner. And the LDS MUST OPENLY and LOUDLY DENOUNCE the FLDS and ANY belief that is ILLEGAL or ABUSIVE. They LDS CHURCH and all of it's members should publicly support ANY action by the FBI and LE to STAMP OUT the illegal and abusive FLDS as they currently exist.

    My Opinion

    I agree with all you've said here. time for the Lds to stand up and be counted and really say out loud they do not agree with the Flds!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfmom View Post
    This whole thing has been made into such a political hot-potato.
    I can only imagine what would be if Mitt Romney was still in the running for president!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfmom View Post
    This whole thing has been made into such a political hot-potato.
    It IS a political hot potato, and and election year. I think a lot is dependent on what happens in Texas. The officials in other states - Utah and Arizona in particular - are going to sit on their hands and do nothing. If the Texas LE has enough solid evidence and brings charges, I think we'll then see the other states jumping on the bandwagon. They're only going to support something they think can be won and something they think their constituents will support.

  9. #9
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    Interesting interview with Utah attorney general Shurtleff. Critical of the raid, says it isn't possible in Utah- gives explanation, what they are doing to combat problems etc, and an interesting attitude about whether the raid will hold up to constitutional challenges. (I think he may be watching that and possibly his attitude will change if it holds up.)

    Shurtleff says he and Goddard would welcome a federal task force!


    U.S. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's very public comments that he was "embarrassed" for Utah and Arizona, accusing them of doing nothing about polygamy-related crimes, infuriated the attorneys general.

    "Harry Reid is full of crap," Shurtleff fumed in a TV interview.

    The two states fired off a four-page letter. Goddard went so far as to send a foot-thick package of documents to Reid's office, detailing the polygamy-related convictions and victim-outreach efforts. Shurtleff said they buried the hatchet when Reid called, saying: "I want to kiss and make up."

    Reid said he would push for a federal task force to investigate polygamy-related crimes, something Shurtleff and Goddard support.

    "All is forgiven if he will help us get active federal involvement in cases that they can investigate," Goddard said.

    Utah U.S. Attorney Brett Tolman said he did not think a federal task force was necessary, since the majority of the crimes being investigated were state-level offenses. Tolman revealed to the Deseret News that he and the FBI have attempted to build a Mafia-type RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) case against the FLDS Church and Jeffs, but it has not been successful because of a lack of witnesses or hard evidence.

    Shurtleff said Reid pledged to the attorneys general that he would get them in contact with top-tier Justice Department officials. Shurtleff said he is still waiting for that phone call.

    http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695276307,00.html

  10. #10
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    Attempted to build Rico charges but there's a lack of evidence and witnesses? GMAB. There are former male members who were excommunicated who were involved in the day to day runnings of the sect. The former long time mayor for one, and many others. There's witnesses. Former female members who've left the group may not have witnessed every transaction but as wives they sure as hell were privy to or experienced a lot of things going on. Their testimony could yield some of those charges!!

    Looking at all of the articles in the follow the money thread, and the court hearing/conviction thread, it's obvious there's a LOT of information out there about their crimes, some of which have already been proven in courts.
    They can take that information and work with it.


  11. #11
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    If the Madame who just committed suicide could be convicted on the RICO statute, you would think convicting these guys would be a cake walk.

    http://www.ricoact.com/

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
    If the Madame who just committed suicide could be convicted on the RICO statute, you would think convicting these guys would be a cake walk.

    http://www.ricoact.com/
    Don't forget that it was the IRS who finally caught Al Capone too.

  13. #13
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    Finally a look at the FLDS under the RICO act!

    http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700243178,00.html

    Let's hope this investigation really gets underway and this cult is exposed for all its filthy secrets.

  14. #14
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    SewingDeb is offline "Sorry, I'm not qualified to land the plane."
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    Pepper,

    In the comments section, it is mentioned that HarryReid and Orrin Hatch are both Mormons. It will be interesting to see how that plays into the investigation.

    It does seem like the problems with the trust and the government contracts (where child labor may have been used) etc. will come out.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SewingDeb View Post
    Pepper,

    In the comments section, it is mentioned that HarryReid and Orrin Hatch are both Mormons. It will be interesting to see how that plays into the investigation.

    It does seem like the problems with the trust and the government contracts (where child labor may have been used) etc. will come out.
    Yes, I knew that Reid and Hatch were both LDS, and that will be interesting. Another Mormon is Mark Shutleff (sp?) the Utah AG. There might be others.

    The relationship between LDS and FLDS is strange - sort of like having a crazy embarassing relative. Everyone knows you are cousins, but you don't want everyone to think you are anything like the crazy cousin.

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