Government Report: Who Lives And Who Dies

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Government Report Answers Who Lives, Who Dies in Flu Pandemic

Now, an influential group of physicians has drafted a grimly specific list of recommendations for which patients wouldn't be treated. They include the very elderly, seriously hurt trauma victims, severely burned patients and those with severe dementia.

~snip~

To prepare, hospitals should designate a triage team with the Godlike task of deciding who will and who won't get lifesaving care, the task force wrote. Those out of luck are the people at high risk of death and a slim chance of long-term survival. But the recommendations get much more specific, and include:

_People older than 85.

_Those with severe trauma, which could include critical injuries from car crashes and shootings.

_Severely burned patients older than 60.

_Those with severe mental impairment, which could include advanced Alzheimer's disease.

_Those with a severe chronic disease, such as advanced heart failure, lung disease or poorly controlled diabetes.

~snip~

If followed to a tee, such rules could exclude care for the poorest, most disadvantaged citizens who suffer disproportionately from chronic disease and disability, he said. While health care rationing will be necessary in a mass disaster, "there are some real ethical concerns here."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354135,00.html
 
It really doesn't surprise me one bit except it has been written down now for all to see.
 
Yes, it sure is hard to see in print. While it sounds logical in the case of a mass critical care event...it's hard to take in thinking that one of these cases might be your loved one. :(

"If a mass casualty critical care event were to occur tomorrow, many people with clinical conditions that are survivable under usual health care system conditions may have to forgo life-sustaining interventions owing to deficiencies in supply or staffing," the report states.
 
Sad but it is only common sense.
Also people need to start packing away certain meds and water for the "just in case".
 
pixies said:
Sad but it is only common sense.
Also people need to start packing away certain meds and water for the "just in case".
Click to expand...
No, I am not going to live my life that way. I refuse to squirrel meds and food/water in a cellar or room somewhere and worry about the "what if" factor. I think it is a sad way to live and not my style at all. I don't think it is healthy either.
 
deanws said:
No, I am not going to live my life that way. I refuse to squirrel meds and food/water in a cellar or room somewhere and worry about the "what if" factor. I think it is a sad way to live and not my style at all. I don't think it is healthy either.
Click to expand...

I see what you're saying, but in my experience it doesn't seem that way. I have food and water for a little while for my family, and it makes me feel free and helps me to NOT worry about the future. We've even had to dip into it a few times, during times when our paycheck didn't make it far enough, or bad weather.

I just didn't want you to think that everyone who has food in storage is paranoid or unhealthy :)
 
hipmamajen said:
I see what you're saying, but in my experience it doesn't seem that way. I have food and water for a little while for my family, and it makes me feel free and helps me to NOT worry about the future. We've even had to dip into it a few times, during times when our paycheck didn't make it far enough, or bad weather.

I just didn't want you to think that everyone who has food in storage is paranoid or unhealthy :)
Click to expand...


Exactly!
I just love when people think it will never happen to them. I remember watching Hurricane Katrina victims begging for help, stuck in their homes without food or water or meds!

The safety of my family comes first. We have enough can goods and water for the "just in case" of life. If that makes me paranoid :woohoo::woohoo:
Call me crazy!
 
So a lot of the politicians are |in advanced age and who knows how their health is, so in the event of an emergency, in all due process, they would be on the list.

But me thinks that exceptions would be made for the rich and powerful while the poor and vulnerable are deemed to be `disposable`HUMANS.
 
Are we expecting some sort of flu pandemic? After reading this thread I feel like I've been living under a rock! :confused:

I did all the water, batteries, canned food and extra OTC meds when the end of "life as we know it" was predicted for the year 2000. Boy, did the kids and hubby make fun of me. Now I just kinda keep us well stocked so it doesn't look like I'm paranoid.

As far the health care rationing, oh my, I hope it never gets to that point.
 
This is along the same lines of how things are handled in the battle field. It makes sense, even though it seems cruel. Resources have to be managed well for those that can make it and not wasted on those that have little to no chance.

I read ERNursey at blogspot every once in a while and it's helped me to gain perspective in the event this situation were to arise.
 
Well, my husband will be dead and so will my 94 year old still wonderful and sweet uncle with nothing wrong with him except for Alzheimers.
 
CyberLaw said:
So a lot of the politicians are |in advanced age and who knows how their health is, so in the event of an emergency, in all due process, they would be on the list.

But me thinks that exceptions would be made for the rich and powerful while the poor and vulnerable are deemed to be `disposable`HUMANS.
Click to expand...
Yes, this is what bothers me, too. The people in power will save themselves and their relatives above others. The hospital staffers could do the same and the list goes on...
 
I imagine if a real pandemic ever hits there are going to be a lot of people dying with no real medical care and it won't just be the sickest or oldest.
 
It is not a matter of if a major health crisis will hit, it is ia matter of when.

If a vaccine is worked on almost immediately, then it could be between 3 and 6 months before a vaccine would be developed, let alone tested.

This is one of the major reason why vaccines have been developed to treat preventable illness that cannot be treated successfully.

If there is a vaccine and it is available for the public, I am sure it would be rationed, the rich buying the medicine on the black market, while the poor scramble for the "very scarce" available vaccines and resources.

Think of Katrina, but on a much wider scale.
 
CyberLaw said:
It is not a matter of if a major health crisis will hit, it is ia matter of when.

If a vaccine is worked on almost immediately, then it could be between 3 and 6 months before a vaccine would be developed, let alone tested.

This is one of the major reason why vaccines have been developed to treat preventable illness that cannot be treated successfully.

If there is a vaccine and it is available for the public, I am sure it would be rationed, the rich buying the medicine on the black market, while the poor scramble for the "very scarce" available vaccines and resources.

Think of Katrina, but on a much wider scale.
Click to expand...


Exactly!
Lord help us all if we think the government will protect and help us in times of major disasters. They will save themselves and we (normal people) should not count on the government to take care of us. We have to fend for ourselves and make provisions to do so.

It scares me how much people like the idea of a welfare government. The people of Katrina yelling at how little was done to protect them when all along they should have protected themselves. Well bodied people sitting on their butts waiting for someone to bail them out is stupid. Take care of your own family and those who cannot help themselves due to age, disabilities...not because they are lazy and ignorant.

Those of us with small kids especially need to have items on hand that would help them survive an emergency.
 
curiositycat said:
How sad is this. Doctors playing God.
Click to expand...

They're not doing this to be mean. This is how emergency medicine is handled, and the bigger the emergency, the nitpickier they have to be about who gets treatment.

In a triage situation (like a battlefield or pandemic) they have to divide the patients into 3 groups. 1. The people who will likely get better with or without treatment. 2. The people who will likely get better, but only if they are treated. 3. The people who are likely to die, even if they receive treatment. Depending on how many resources (time, medicine, blood, doctors) they have available, they will concentrate on the people in category 2, and if there's anything left they'll move on to others.

You can't depend on the government to help if there's a huge crisis. The US Government has a lot of resources, but it's not bottomless. If you wait for them to step in and help during a big crisis, you could be waiting a long time and still come up empty handed.
 
curiositycat said:
How sad is this. Doctors playing God.
Click to expand...

This is called triage and medical professionals do it every day. They would have to do it on a larger scale for a mass crisis, but I don't think it's sad. It's just realistic. On a very real level, we ask doctors to play God whenever we seek their assistance.
 
hipmamajen said:
They're not doing this to be mean. This is how emergency medicine is handled, and the bigger the emergency, the nitpickier they have to be about who gets treatment.

In a triage situation (like a battlefield or pandemic) they have to divide the patients into 3 groups. 1. The people who will likely get better with or without treatment. 2. The people who will likely get better, but only if they are treated. 3. The people who are likely to die, even if they receive treatment. Depending on how many resources (time, medicine, blood, doctors) they have available, they will concentrate on the people in category 2, and if there's anything left they'll move on to others.

You can't depend on the government to help if there's a huge crisis. The US Government has a lot of resources, but it's not bottomless. If you wait for them to step in and help during a big crisis, you could be waiting a long time and still come up empty handed.
Click to expand...

Right on all counts. As to playing God, my answer is that God has allowed some to be more likely to survive than others and has given us the knowledge that in certain extreme circumstances attempts to save everyone will lead to more loss of life than triaged care.

However the spiritual side says that I don't ever want to find myself in the position of having to make those decisions because of my distaste for "greatest good for the greatest number" ethos and my tendency to root for the underdog who can challenge our "wisdom" and come out on top. I just don't want others making ethical decisions that should be made by those I take care, with me assisting by explaining how I see the outcomes of various avenues of treatment.

C6
 
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