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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeannaT View Post
    jeffries, I've always thought a woman was involved, or a man who looks like a woman. Many of these men look very strong, fit, and would have fought hard against an assault.

    I think there is someone(s) who for some reason hate this class of people - young handsome college students who are alone at night after drinking - and they lure them into a car and then somehow cause them to drown without any visible marks. I don't know what kind of drugs could be administered to render these men helpless, so when tossed in a body of water they would drown and there would be no evidence of drugs on the autopsy.

    But that's what I think happened. A woman like person lured the men into the car, they were then rendered incapacitated, and then tossed into water to drown.
    But aren't these men usually highly intoxicated? I am not sure how hard someone is going to fight in that condition. So if somebody has killed at least some of these men, then it doesn't necessarily has to be another man doing it.
    Just my opinion


  2. #92
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    I feel like there are both women and men involved here..The Josh S video is really important to this case and I think if there is other videos out there,we need to look at them all and see if there is a connection on any of them..I can not find a thread just for the videos,I know there is at least 3 of them from 3 different young men's disappearances.I saw the Josh and Brain Shaffer ones.Does anyone know where anymore are?


  3. #93
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    A friend mentioned yesterday that she is just now noticing a lot of young men have been dying by "accidental drowning after night clubbing". I told her it has been going on a while, we know here in the U.S. and in Canada and I think all these may be web based, sort of like flash mobs are. I have nothing to base that idea on, just a thought that came to me, there are some messed up people out there, as flash mobs would show although not as bad as these murders are.

    I have to wonder if this is happening in every other Country and we are just not aware.

    Unless I have included a link, it is my opinion and only my opinion that I am expressing.


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  5. #94
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    And now there is another one....near the University of Wisconsin Oshkosh......son of a Green Bay Packers coach.....also fits perfectly into the same type of profile of many of the others


    http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/stor...6pLid%3D126198


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  7. #95
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    I do believe that many of these deaths are accidental.

    I just don't believe they ALL are.
    [/I]


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  9. #96
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    Who could do these awful crimes?
    Who hates the U.S. and vows to destroy it and the Western cultures?
    Who is organized and skilled in grab and kill techniques?
    Who can operate and go undetected?
    Who is interested in engineering students and the information they may have about nuclear power?
    Who could carry out these crimes for so long and not be caught?


    Gee, I couldn't possibly guess...


  10. #97
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    Smiley face killers may be stalking college men
    http://articles.cnn.com/2008-05-21/j...er?_s=PM:CRIME

    "It's so widespread. We have so many different victims in so many different areas," Duarte said. "It would, in my view, be impossible to be one person."

    Looks like the work of more than one person, likely multiple people in the respected areas where they occurred.

    "The type of person that would be the opposite, not smart, someone not good in school, maybe doesn't have a job, not popular," Duarte said.

    Gannon and Duarte believe that the young men were drugged to weaken them and given a substance that couldn't be detected by an autopsy.


    Probably a person who is angry at the world. Likely a person who did not get to go to college, but wanted to.

    Profile Of The Killer(s)
    Male in his 20s to 30s
    Smart, but does not have college education
    Has issues of anger and jealousy
    May work in a team
    Driven by revenge

    Smiley Face Patterns
    http://surfdete.ipower.com/patterns.html


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  12. #98
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    This story came out yesterday. Elkhart is not from Notre dame in Indiana. As I read it, it made me think of the wisconsin deaths.

    http://www.wsbt.com/news/wsbt-elkhar...,6677712.story


  13. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffries View Post
    Interesting thoughts, all.

    Could women be involved in luring the victims to their deaths? Very possibly. It would explain how seamlessly and easily the victims seem to disappear; they would, of course, be more willing to come with an attractive female stranger than some possibly threatening-looking male.

    I think if one wants to take these cases head-on, one has to realize the weight of it all. How impossible it would be for this to be the work of merely one, or two, or even five or ten people.

    It's mind-boggling.

    Honestly, I don't know what to make of all these cases, when all is said and done. I have little doubt that many (perhaps the majority) of them are murders, but if so then this is truly the most bizarre instance of serial murder I've heard of. It's unprecedented. One cannot look for commonalities with previous serial murders, because this seems to be so far beyond anything else.

    How do you commit serial murder on such a scale - across the country, dozens of victims, all very closely linked by cause of death and last circumstance seen, etc. - and not arouse any suspicion by LE? No FBI investigation. Nada.

    Why are the coroners in virtually every single one of these cases so absurdly quick to rule them accidental drownings?

    Why are the the only cops who are actively investgating these cases retired? What does that say about LE generally and why or why not they would want to uncover the "truth," if anything?

    Why is the media, by and large, so silent about this? Sure, there was an outburst of attention in the spring of 2008 or so, but it died down after not too long. Now this is all seen as conspiracy, nonsense. Not credible.

    Where are all the still-missing young college men who disappeared from a bar or party after being separated from friends, i.e. who seem to fit into the "smiley face" killer M.O.? I propose that they are not necessarily long-deceased, their body/remains still undiscovered. More likely is that these particular individuals put up a fight in the process of being adbucted/attacked; the perps then decided it was too much of a risk to dump the body in the water as with all the others, as there would be clear signs of struggle pointing to foul play. Not what these guys want. They've been uncannily good at "hiding" evidence of foul play thus far.

    How many of the victims had traces of GHB in their blood? Dan Zamlen was one. I know there are others, but can't recall at the moment. This, in itself, is reason enough to be suspicious. GHB is not a common recreational drug. Frankly, it's far more often used as a weapon than a drug ("date rape drug", etc. as everyone knows). I highly doubt your average college kid considers getting drunk and taking GHB a fun night out on the town.

    As always, more questions than answers.


    Great post. But when it came to the Dan Zamlen case,I always thought his "friends" were covering something up. There was vomit on the backseat of one of Dan's female friends that he was last with that night and she just came of like she was covering something up.


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  15. #100
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    Hello All,

    I'm not sure what's going on either, but it's clear to me it is something that goes beyond young men being intoxicated and inexplicably going into a body of water. It seems these cases are primarily in the midwest, northerly states (PA/NY) and Canada. There are obviously plenty of bodies of water in other areas adjacent to plenty of colleges and bars and yet one does not see such a frequency of "accidental drownings" -- certainly there are plenty of colleges in FL, TX and other coastal states where this does not occur on a regular basis.

    How this can be missed by even the most ardent "it's the alcohol stupid" theorists is strange to me. I have no stake in any particular theory, I just know something is amiss when I see it.

    After all, how does one explain what happened to Chris Jenkins. In my mind his case illustrates that alcohol alone cannot be the culprit in all of these cases. There are extremes in thought on both sides of the spectrum and in between lies the truth.

    I'm glad this forum is here so that we can express our thoughts without risking unnecessary sarcasm and unbridled anger. The quote that comes to mind is:
    The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer.
    ( Edward R. Murrow)

    Though I know there are some who believe the "obvious" is simply college kids drinking and then somehow stumbling into a river, there are just as many who sense something nefarious is happening. I never depend on the police to unravel these kinds of complex cases. They are too busy just handling their day to day work. Only a tiny fraction of detectives possess the energy, intellect, diligence, intuition, education, training, resolve and drive to tackle that which is so out of the ordinary.

    Meanwhile, I'm deeply troubled that these "accidental drownings" continue to occur at such an alarming rate, in spite of police and community efforts to prevent them. Kudos to all who have devoted themselves to looking for patterns and missing pieces to these incidences. My own two cents is that some sort of sedating drug may have been put into some of the drinks by predators. I never knew how many perpetrators there are who enjoy sexually assaulting and murdering young men.


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  17. #101
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    Hello All,

    I'm not sure what's going on either, but it's clear to me it is something that goes beyond young men being intoxicated and inexplicably going into a body of water. It seems these cases are primarily in the midwest, northerly states (PA/NY) and Canada. There are obviously plenty of bodies of water in other areas adjacent to plenty of colleges and bars and yet one does not see such a frequency of "accidental drownings" -- certainly there are plenty of colleges in FL, TX and other coastal states where this does not occur on a regular basis.

    How this can be missed by even the most ardent "it's the alcohol stupid" theorists is strange to me. I have no stake in any particular theory, I just know something is amiss when I see it.

    After all, how does one explain what happened to Chris Jenkins. In my mind his case illustrates that alcohol alone cannot be the culprit in all of these cases. There are extremes in thought on both sides of the spectrum and in between lies the truth.

    I'm glad this forum is here so that we can express our thoughts without risking unnecessary sarcasm and unbridled anger. The quote that comes to mind is:
    The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer.
    ( Edward R. Murrow)

    Though I know there are some who believe the "obvious" is simply college kids drinking and then somehow stumbling into a river, there are just as many who sense something nefarious is happening. I never depend on the police to unravel these kinds of complex cases. They are too busy just handling their day to day work. Only a tiny fraction of detectives possess the energy, intellect, diligence, intuition, education, training, resolve and drive to tackle that which is so out of the ordinary.

    Meanwhile, I'm deeply troubled that these "accidental drownings" continue to occur at such an alarming rate, in spite of police and community efforts to prevent them. Kudos to all who have devoted themselves to looking for patterns and missing pieces to these incidences. My own two cents is that some sort of sedating drug may have been put into some of the drinks by predators. I never knew how many perpetrators there are who enjoy sexually assaulting and murdering young men.


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  19. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePhantom View Post
    Hello All,

    I'm not sure what's going on either, but it's clear to me it is something that goes beyond young men being intoxicated and inexplicably going into a body of water. It seems these cases are primarily in the midwest, northerly states (PA/NY) and Canada. There are obviously plenty of bodies of water in other areas adjacent to plenty of colleges and bars and yet one does not see such a frequency of "accidental drownings" -- certainly there are plenty of colleges in FL, TX and other coastal states where this does not occur on a regular basis.

    How this can be missed by even the most ardent "it's the alcohol stupid" theorists is strange to me. I have no stake in any particular theory, I just know something is amiss when I see it
    .

    After all, how does one explain what happened to Chris Jenkins. In my mind his case illustrates that alcohol alone cannot be the culprit in all of these cases. There are extremes in thought on both sides of the spectrum and in between lies the truth.

    I'm glad this forum is here so that we can express our thoughts without risking unnecessary sarcasm and unbridled anger. The quote that comes to mind is:
    The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer.
    ( Edward R. Murrow)

    Though I know there are some who believe the "obvious" is simply college kids drinking and then somehow stumbling into a river, there are just as many who sense something nefarious is happening. I never depend on the police to unravel these kinds of complex cases. They are too busy just handling their day to day work. Only a tiny fraction of detectives possess the energy, intellect, diligence, intuition, education, training, resolve and drive to tackle that which is so out of the ordinary.

    Meanwhile, I'm deeply troubled that these "accidental drownings" continue to occur at such an alarming rate, in spite of police and community efforts to prevent them. Kudos to all who have devoted themselves to looking for patterns and missing pieces to these incidences. My own two cents is that some sort of sedating drug may have been put into some of the drinks by predators. I never knew how many perpetrators there are who enjoy sexually assaulting and murdering young men.
    This is a great post-Thank you-I really like the bolded part-I also find it very suspect that NO young women have met the same fate as all these men have.This is why I think all of this cases are connected!!!


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  21. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogrannypop View Post
    Personally I think it is just an unfortunate coincidence. I live in a town with 3 major colleges and a couple more near by. Think of how many college students there are at any given time in the USA. This is an unfortunate small portion. A lot of them drink. Just because they are athletes or scholars doesn't exclude them from partying.

    I am heartbroken about anyone losing a child. My son went to college here. I always warned, no lectured them, not to go near the river if they were drinking. Because kids do.

    I believe that there is so much in the media and online that most kids are aware of this. Some are going after the fact to draw the smilies.

    Keep in mind if you look at a map, these occur in places where there are large and/or numerous bodies of water.

    College kids go to bars, get intoxicated and, being unfamiliar to the area or disoriented, stumble into the river.

    Lack of water in the lungs could be due to hypothermia before death.

    I am just so sorry this happens. I wish we could hold them close until they are grown and safe.

    Bless our children.

    I am sorry but I have to disagree with this. I have lived in Eau Claire WI my whole life and there are few facts people don't realize. For one...one of young men who went missing here was a loco. He was to was born and raised here. And I am telling you ANYONE who is from Eau Claire knows not to swim in half moon winter or summer...it is a gross little lake no one really wants to be in. Not only that but from where Water street is and Half mood it's not very possible to just wonder into the lake. I mean just one block behind Water street is a river that none of these college kids are found it. Half moon is a little bit more of a ways from water st. Half moon would be ideal to throw a body in because there are tons of woods around it to hide out at and put the body in the water. There are also a few other factors I know of just from being from Eau Claire and I can tell you that it's not common for college men to go missing and be found in the lake or rivers. This all happen in to short of a time. And it is now 2013 and has not happen sense. I find that odd.


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  23. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePhantom View Post
    Hello All,

    I'm not sure what's going on either, but it's clear to me it is something that goes beyond young men being intoxicated and inexplicably going into a body of water. It seems these cases are primarily in the midwest, northerly states (PA/NY) and Canada. There are obviously plenty of bodies of water in other areas adjacent to plenty of colleges and bars and yet one does not see such a frequency of "accidental drownings" -- certainly there are plenty of colleges in FL, TX and other coastal states where this does not occur on a regular basis.
    At least some northern cases might be explained by hypothermia setting in sooner than in the warmer climates, and in case the body of water freezes in the winter people may decide to take a shortcut over the ice and then there is a weak spot in the ice somewhere and they may fall through. That's not going to happen in FL or other warm states.


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  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyraKelly View Post
    This is a great post-Thank you-I really like the bolded part-I also find it very suspect that NO young women have met the same fate as all these men have.This is why I think all of this cases are connected!!!
    Hello all, this is my first post here.

    I agree that it is very suspect that no young women have met the same fate. However, I also think that may be a convenience factor on the part of the killer(s). As a woman myself, safety has been ingrained in me. Most young women will not leave a bar alone, late at night, to walk home. We tend to travel in groups. We are also taught to watch out for someone who may slip something into our drink. Young men, for the most part, do not think of such things. They aren't afraid of being kidnapped and raped walking home alone, and they aren't watching out for someone spiking their drink. Additionally, I think that young men may be targeted because the persons responsible for these killings are aware of the fact that if young women were ending up in rivers and lakes, there would be a large scale investigation.

    I read earlier in this thread of the possibility that the men in the northern states may have headed towards the water to walk across the ice as a shortcut. I live in Minnesota. This may be true of lakes, but I can guarantee that no young man will try to cross a river (especially the Mississippi). Where there is moving water, there is thin ice, and the Mississippi only freezes sporadically. Even in the coldest of weather there may be a few patches of thin ice, but generally it s mostly open water.

    The case of Dan Zamlen is what really piqued my interest in this case. I regularly drive past the spot where he disappeared, and I find it absurd that he would have accidentally ended up in the river. To get to the river from that location he would have had to walk down an extremely steep hill, which is very wooded. It's a big hill, even if he fell down it a little bit, there's no way he could have fallen down the entire hill and into the water. He would have hit a tree within ten feet (at the most) of falling, most likely sooner. The only way he would have ended up at the bottom of the hill at the rivers edge is if he was taken down there, or if he was being chased and ran down in the hopes of alluding the person(s) chasing him. I can take a picture of this hill and post it here if anyone is interested in seeing what I'm talking about. You can't even see the river from the top of the hill because it's so wooded, and it's in a spot where there is no path down to the river.

    Dan was on the phone with a friend shortly before he disappeared. The police have never released exactly what was said in that phone call. I read something that said he was talking to a female friend and was possibly questioning his sexuality. Forgive me, but for the life of me I cannot remember where I read this. Regardless, I don't believe for one second that he decided to jump into a freezing cold river to commit suicide, especially when the friend he was speaking to was on her way to pick him up from where he was.


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