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Thread: Missing Voluntarily?

  1. #26
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    wonderful people run too sometimes

    Quote Originally Posted by Esah View Post
    DocWho3, as thorough as your post is, I completely disagree that Tara would have left her life voluntarily for the following reasons:
    Differing opinions is good because it means no possibility is not being considered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esah
    1. Above and beyond all reasons, Tara was a humanitarian. She always put others first. Tara validated herself by her giving. . . .
    Often when people disappear it is said to be out of character and perhaps it is out of character but people do it anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esah
    2. A second reason, is what I learned from reading her emails. Tara was absolulely obsessed with her love for MH. She was playing every angle she knew to win his affections in the last few weeks before her disappearance. . . .
    If I remember correctly MH had been quoted as having said he and she had discussed things and that it was over. I can see where that might trigger a need for a sudden life change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esah
    3. A third reason, the FBI have Tara listed in a VICAP, meaning that they believe a violent crime has been comitted against Tara. They don't say these things lightly either. . . .
    This would not be the first time L.E. have been convinced someone was the victim of foul play only to learn later that it was not what happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by Esah
    The part I think you are missing with your assumption is Tara's personality. . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by Esah
    . . .I just don't see Tara's worst day imaginable leading her to leave without concern for her family, friends and beloved pets. That's not the Tara that I have come to know.. . .
    Actually I have learned to pretty much leave out what was considered characteristic of a person, what they liked or disliked or how they normally conducted themselves because in runaway adult situations this seems to all go out the window. Leave a pet behind? Mothers have been known to leave their own children behind without a word to let them know what happened to her so I suppose it is not beyond the bounds of possibility a person could leave a pet behind.

    If what a person normally would do had turned out to be a good indictaor in adult runaway cases then I would be using that now when I look at these cases. The thing is that even wonderful people can find it necessary to run away sometimes.

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  3. #27
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    You make some good points Doc. Do you have any statistics on women leaving everything behind, and having amnesia? Perhaps some of the time these people have such a meltdown that they close off that part of their life, psychologically, and simply have no memory of it. It would be one of the best solutions to this nightmare.

    Unfortunately I also have my gut feelings to go on and they tell me that this is just too much of a stretch in Tara's situation. She would have had to leave on foot and the roads leading in and out of Ocilla are not on bus routs tmk. A taxi service would have had a record of the fare, but would most likely had to have come from Tifton. Also, there would be phone records to that effect.

    If a friend picked her up and sent her on to a new life, they would most likely have caved and told by now.

    HD's numerous calls to Tara that weekend have always plagued me. He knew something was wrong. He was reportedly one of the last 3 people Tara spoke with. (this is still being debated, but one source closed to this told me it was true) He is the only person who thought there was a problem that weekend and yet he even came up short when he tried to find her. Should he have gone inside Tara's house that night and seen that she wasn't there? Or did he? We've assumed that because his card was left in the door that he didn't go inside, but maybe he did. Not seeing her there, he might have just given up and went home. But later thought that he should call, and call....

    No one has an airtight alibi for the 36 hours in question that weekend. Can you focus some of your attention on this fact and maybe come up with something we've all missed?

    It would take a lot of convincing Doc, for me to believe that Tara left voluntarily. Perhaps you will find that one detail that concludes it, that we have all been missing. Keep on trying man.

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  5. #28
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    wish I knew it all

    Quote Originally Posted by Esah View Post
    You make some good points Doc. . .
    Thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Esah
    . . .Do you have any statistics on women leaving everything behind, and having amnesia? . . .
    No, sorry I don't have stats on that particular runaway cause. I am not sure anyone has kept stats on that particular cause.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esah
    . . .Perhaps some of the time these people have such a meltdown that they close off that part of their life, psychologically, and simply have no memory of it. It would be one of the best solutions to this nightmare. . .
    At least in such a scenario she might still be alive to someday reunite with some relatives and loved ones. I tend to hope for life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esah
    . . .She would have had to leave on foot . . .
    Not remembering leaving does not mean you could not have had help leaving.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esah
    . . .If a friend picked her up and sent her on to a new life, they would most likely have caved and told by now. . .
    No one knows if any helper even knew her well at all and we do not know if that person is even still in this country or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esah
    . . .HD's numerous calls to Tara that weekend have always plagued me. He knew something was wrong. . .
    Perhaps when someone cares about another he can sometimes know enough about the person to tell that something is wrong or not quite right about a situation whether a runaway situation or a crime or other situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esah
    . . .No one has an airtight alibi for the 36 hours in question that weekend. Can you focus some of your attention on this fact and maybe come up with something we've all missed? . . .
    I am always asking myself questions about parts of the case that intrigue me but I really think that if anyone can best figure out the things like alibis and fit them with timelines and other evidence it would be L.E. They are usually trained and experienced in such things and usually have access to info that we have not been told.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esah
    . . .It would take a lot of convincing Doc, for me to believe that Tara left voluntarily. Perhaps you will find that one detail that concludes it, that we have all been missing. Keep on trying man.
    Thanks for providing me this chance to try to explain something to people. Just to be clear for everyone: I am not trying to convince anyone that tara is a runaway or that she is not a runaway. I know that sometimes it may seem like I am trying to convince people that she ran away but what I am trying to do is to put forth my contribution to the ongoing case discussion, to tell my current opinion.

    This is an ongoing case discussion and I often tell my current opinion based on the evidence that I have seen in news articles and I often explain whatever views I have to those who may ask questions or who raise points of constructive objection to my current view on a case. When possible I try to cite examples and provide links so people can see that my thoughts on a case were based on true facts and on other real cases and so that people can see that my thoughts were not just baseless imaginings that had never before happened in other cases. Often I am only trying to establish that my views are at least legitimate real possibilities based on thoughtful consideration of other cases and the public known facts of the current case.

    Perhaps as we all discuss cases we can help sharpen each others thoughts. Maybe in time we can even prove helpful in a case or two or three.

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  7. #29
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    Well said, Docwho! I admire your open mind. Something that can be lacking at times in this case. Some folks are so sure about things and will get so argumentative and that gets us no where. You aren't sucked in by what others think. You are willing to stand alone in order to make a point. Thank you for doing that for Tara's sake.

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  9. #30
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    I was posting about a case on another board tonight and was trying to remember - did LE ever officially speculate (at any point) that Tara was missing voluntarily? In the case I'm reading about now, LE has declared this man "missing voluntarily" and many posters are taking that to mean that LE knows where he is and just aren't making it public. I could have sworn that at one time they said Tara was also missing voluntarily, and lord knows there was never any real evidence that she disappeared by choice.

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    Just wondering

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    what was said

    Quote Originally Posted by Hucklepie View Post
    . . .did LE ever officially speculate (at any point) that Tara was missing voluntarily? . . .
    A quick websearch netted these results among others:

    ". . .Nothing in those interviews, authorities have said, provided them with any information to suggest that Tara Grinstead had been the victim of foul play. . .
    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/c...instead/5.html

    ". . .Even though Tara's no where in sight, right now, police are not suspecting foul play. "We haven't found anything at this point to leave us to believe anything," says Ocilla Police Department Chief, Billy Hancock.
    Police say after investigating the house, they found no signs of forced entry. . ."
    http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4028907&nav=5kZQ

    ". . .Police characterize their investigation as a missing-person case. Investigators are not ruling out the possibility of foul play, but without more evidence, they say it is also quite possible that Grinstead may have just walked away from all the drama in her personal life. . . ."
    http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/09/30/...ing/index.html

    ". . .Authorities have never said they suspect the 30-year-old woman was a victim of foul play. A cell phone that she was known to always carry was found in her house, her unlocked car was in the driveway, but her purse and keys were gone.
    A latex glove _ the type worn by police officers and medical workers _ was found in her front yard.
    "There's a lot of speculation," Police Chief Billy Hancock said. "We certainly are still considering it a missing persons case and the possibility of abduction is not being ruled out. We don't have any evidence of that." . . ."
    http://www.news4jax.com/news/6738725/detail.html

    ". . ."We don't have any evidence that suggests foul play," said Irwin County Sheriff Donnie Youghn. . ."
    http://www.wsbtv.com/news/5257735/detail.html

    Wrap up:
    I do not believe that L.E. stated that they had come to a definitive conclusion about Tara Grinstead but they did state they had no real evidence of foul play and yet were not ruling out either runaway or foul play without more evidence and that until more evidence was forthcoming they were treating it as a missing person case (as opposed to a crime case.) It may be that people read between the lines of those quotes to believe that L.E. suspected a runaway situation.

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  13. #33
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    Rothwell's initial impression? "It appeared that Tara may have left on her own. However, we had a glove, a latex glove that we couldn't explain. That glove indicates foul play to us."

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...in;contentBody

    While the possibility a missing person simply left without telling anyone always exists, the GBI said in each of the cases they investigate it appears a crime occurred. Last year, the GBI went through all missing person cases in its files and trimmed the list by about 100 women who had returned on their own, Bankhead said.

    http://www.ajc.com/news/blairsville-...ht-123959.html

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  15. #34
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    Haven't posted in quite some time...

    I really don't believe Tara voluntarily disappeared. However, let us not forget that seasoned LE have been wrong. Great examples are Jamie Dugard and Elizabeth Smart, wherein LE suspected the wrong persons.

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  17. #35
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    iM SORRY I WOULD GIVE THIS TOPIC ON TARA A -1 OUT OF 100% CHANCE THAT THIS IS WHAT HAPPEN..I HAVE ALLWAYS THOUGHT THIS IS MH AND MAYBE A ACOMPLISS AND THAT STUFF IN THAT POLICE STATION HE WORKED FOR AND HIS FREINDS HAVE MAYBE NOT GOT RID OF EVIDENCE BUT LET SOME EVIDENCE GET LOST OR TIPS NOT GETTING REPORTED TO THE LEAD INVESTIGATOR JUST STEER ANY DAMAGING INFO IN ANOTHER DIRECTION..
    Everything I Write Is JMHO ..

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  19. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by docwho3 View Post
    No one knows if any helper even knew her well at all and we do not know if that person is even still in this country or not.
    I feel like, if someone cared enough about Tara to help her leave in such a mysterious way (perhaps Tara felt in danger and needed to leave), they would also have cared enough to have let Tara's mama know before she died. It would be a hard-hearted person to let a mama die without knowing her girl was alright, especially if the accomplice cared about Tara enough to help her leave.

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  21. #37
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    keeping on

    Quote Originally Posted by wadahoot View Post
    I feel like, if someone cared enough about Tara to help her leave in such a mysterious way (perhaps Tara felt in danger and needed to leave), they would also have cared enough to have let Tara's mama know before she died. It would be a hard-hearted person to let a mama die without knowing her girl was alright, especially if the accomplice cared about Tara enough to help her leave.
    Unfortunately it would not be the first time such a thing has happened.

    Whatever you believe, at least the fact that you posted is keeping the topic alive and perhaps that in itself may be helping the case move towards a solution. Thanks

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  23. #38
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    Hey Doc,

    I was wondering if your thoughts have changed about Tara's disappearance? There have been several TV shows featuring her case. I think you once felt that she could be a run-a-way, have your thoughts changed over time?

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  25. #39
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    I just wish something would happen on her behalf so that she and her family may have some sort of justice.......its been too long!!!

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    voluntarily ? .... Not a chance .
    Everything I Write Is JMHO ..

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  28. #41
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    keeping an open mind

    Quote Originally Posted by RememberTara View Post
    I was wondering if your thoughts have changed
    about Tara's disappearance? There have been several TV shows featuring her case.
    I think you once felt that she could be a run-a-way, have your thoughts changed over time?
    Sorry for the long delay in answering.
    I have not yet seen evidence to cause me to change my thoughts on the case.

    Still, I keep an open mind to new evidence to show up.

    Over the long course of this case I have, at times, had posters from this
    forum contact me by forum private message
    saying that they had been told or hinted to by LE that evidence existed which pointed to a crime.

    In part, my reaction to unverified people using private messaging this way has always been of this sort:
    Thank you for your info but until I see such evidence released to the public or stated by LE in public
    I must continue to work only with those things which can be verified (in keeping with
    Websleuths rules.)

    I am aware that sometimes people get so wrapped up in posting about a case that
    they begin to see it as a sort of contest & may sometimes resort to private hints to
    cause some posters of the opposition viewpoint to go silent or even retract
    their theory.

    I am also aware that sometimes such hints are legitimate & are meant to help.

    Since I have no way of knowing for sure which is which sort of private message
    in any given case I wait for verified evidence before changing a theory.
    In some cases I report the message to the moderators for their consideration.

    ***********************************
    I have not been as indepth about this case recently as I once was so it is
    possible that new evidence has been released by LE in MSM that I do not know about.

    Still so far as I know we still have a missing person with a latex type glove
    left behind (unknown for sure if it was left behind by responders or by whoever left Tara's home
    (whether that be Tara and/or a helper or Tara & villain/s.)

    Allegedly a private forensics expert was brought in who allegedly found a
    drop of blood or other substance somewhere on the outside part . . .
    umm the porch part somewhere or maybe step. (Sorry- its been a very
    long while since I read that part.)

    Her car was left behind unlocked and with some cash in an envelope
    inside the vehicle.

    I saw a video news report or a internet news report with picture where LE said
    they looked inside Tara's home & saw no signs of a struggle.

    While some point to a minor bit of damage or two found in the home to
    dispute LE's initial statement I have not yet seen anything conclusive to
    prove LE was wrong in that initial statement that there was no sign of struggle.
    (However, no sign of struggle does not mean someone was not forced at gunpoint to leave.)

    There have been very few public indicators to tip the balance of theory to crime or runaway.
    Saying there have been few indicators does not mean there have been
    none just that there has not been many.

    That vast majority of missing persons are not crime victims (That has been
    verified previously. See past posts for proof if they have not been lost in
    the websleuths move.) Many choose to disappear for various reasons.

    Still, even knowing that, it is always tempting to assume a crime has taken place
    especially when you have a vehicle left behind and even a small drop of blood.

    Case in point: A mailman goes missing. His mail truck is found.
    He is not in it. Later tests revealed a small drop of blood had dried on the
    vehicle. It then came out that the missing person had said to his wife
    that he thought someone had been following him around on his route
    recently. We know there have been cases where mail persons are robbed
    when delivering mail. Sounds like a crime has happened?
    It turns out he just ran away & perhaps was floating down a nearby river in a canoe.
    He was found alive and well.
    http://www.theindychannel.com/news/13667482/detail.html
    http://www.theindychannel.com/news/13677159/detail.html
    http://www.theindychannel.com/news/13693565/detail.html


    In Tara's case we have a very talented woman who knows very much
    about how to change her appearance. She has the education to change her
    walk & speech and looks greatly. She probably has the education to
    easily create a new life anywhere.

    There are things I look for in adult cases to help sort out runaways from
    crime victims. I am not an expert but I have read many many websleuths cases
    & have taken an interest in the adult runaway cases because I think they
    are such tragic stories & I wish there was a way to help heal the causes of such cases.

    Tara's case does indeed exhibit some of the signs I look for to indicate an adult runaway
    but that in itself is not conclusive.
    The problem is that so far we have no conclusive public evidence to go on.
    In the lack of evidence to prove a crime I lean towards adult runaway just
    to go along with the proven odds. . . . . and even more so when some of
    the signs I watch for are present in a case.

    I do not think it wise or want people to stop looking for evidence of a possible
    crime to have taken place. That would be wrong to do. No one wants
    a criminal to possibly get away to harm others.

    I just refuse to jump to the conclusion that a crime has been commited
    without evidence since the past has proven most adult missing persons are not
    the victim of a crime.

    To ignore the possibility of a crime is to risk a criminal going free to harm
    others but also to ignore and not think about the possibility of an adult
    runaway risks missing the chance for a healing and closure to take place
    for that living person and those that loved and missed that person.

    That is why it is so important that in this forum both possibilities are considered by all of us.

    Do I see some possibilites for a crime in this case? Sure, but so far no
    evidence whatsoever to back it up. As with the missing mailman,
    there are possibilities of a crime & some of those make sense but
    with no evidence to go on, the past cases say she likely eased into a new
    life somewhere.
    Last edited by docwho3; 05-22-2011 at 07:29 AM.

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  30. #42
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    The main thing I think she had going for her in the theory for voluntary disappearance was that she certainly had enough male friends in LE and at least one in the GBI who could have helped her make arrangements to get out of GA in a hurry. Yes, it hurt her family and friends, but if she wanted to leave or needed to leave without a trace, I think she definitely had the connections to have done so alive and well.

    I do think it takes a very intelligent person ( and I agree with Doc above that Tara was intelligent and also would be skilled in changing her appearance) and/ or a person with close ties to LE to disappear successfully ( unless they are criminals and have mafia connections, and I don't think most of us, including Tara, ever encounter those people).Edited to add-- Or a person without much of a life to leave behind. Like a person without a career,or friends, or parents, or children. Someone who might not be reported missing by anyone for a long time.Fringe type people are almost " gone' from their lives already, you know?

    I couldn't do it. Most ordinary people can't in this day and age, barring a natural disaster of monumental proportions which allows a person a measure of time and undocumented movement.
    Last edited by SeekingJana; 07-06-2012 at 02:08 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeekingJana View Post
    The main thing I think she had going for her in the theory for voluntary disappearance was that she certainly had enough male friends in LE and at least one in the GBI who could have helped her make arrangements to get out of GA in a hurry. Yes, it hurt her family and friends, but if she wanted to leave or needed to leave without a trace, I think she definitely had the connections to have done so alive and well.

    I do think it takes a very intelligent person ( and I agree with Doc above that Tara was intelligent and also would be skilled in changing her appearance) and/ or a person with close ties to LE to disappear successfully ( unless they are criminals and have mafia connections, and I don't think most of us, including Tara, ever encounter those people).Edited to add-- Or a person without much of a life to leave behind. Like a person without a career,or friends, or parents, or children. Someone who might not be reported missing by anyone for a long time.Fringe type people are almost " gone' from their lives already, you know?

    I couldn't do it. Most ordinary people can't in this day and age, barring a natural disaster of monumental proportions which allows a person a measure of time and undocumented movement.
    Funny that you say that, because when I lived in Hendersonville, NC and I saw the show with Tara, and Jennifer K I was almost certain that this girl who came into my place of employment resembled Tara greatly. It doesn't mean its her, but I cant seem to remember her name now, only that in 2008 she was on the board of directors for the Henderson County Apple Festival, it might be worth checking into, I just looked and she is not on the board now, and I have never been able to find any pictures of her in the county which I thought was interesting since she was part of such an important thing.

  32. #44
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    I remembered the name, and it is Tara. I found a photo from facebook and a photo online and did a layover on facebook. I am unsure if I am allowed to post the 2 pictures for your input. Please advise...
    Last edited by tricket; 07-09-2012 at 03:38 PM.

  33. #45
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    If you can help Tara's friends, family and others who care about her, post what you have.. If there's a problem with it, the moderators will fix it.

    However, and I am saying this so as not to get your hopes up and have your feelings be hurt later, there really is no way to determine if someone who doesn't identify herself as Tara Grinstead is Tara without DNA testing or fingerprinting at the least.

    I've had my own " doppelganger" so to speak.... I never would have believed that 2 people could be mistaken for each other so often until it happened to me. Just saying. I hope Tara is alive and well somewhere. There is no reason to think she's in any type of WIT SEC program ( Witness protection program), so I think your person's photo is acceptable to post. Not sure that any name other than Tara's is, though.
    UNLESS A LINK IS POSTED, MY POSTS REFLECT MY OPINION ONLY.

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  35. #46
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    compared the pics

    I compared the pics. So far I do not think it is Tara.
    There are different teeth gaps and when I set the face pics to the size
    where the eyes were the same size then other features would not line up
    or match size. (I am not an expert in comparing faces so take this
    as just one person's opinion.)

    Still, I can see why you thought it a possibility.

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  37. #47
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    Thumbs up Wow!

    I think it could be her. The face is fuller, but Tara was known to gain weight pretty rapidly. Also, she could have had a child and put on some pounds in the face. It happens.

    As far as dental work- Tara was smart about changing one's smile and features. She could easily have had veneers, or changed veneers..
    I see similarities in hairline, eyes, and mouth. In fact, I don't see anything that makes me go " No way" and I do about most photo comparisons.

    THE UID lady's CHIN shape is broader.. but a chin implant would change the shape. Tara would probably go for this, as she has a small, almost pointy chin in her photos.... as well as having some more cosmetic dental work. A young and beautiful person who wants to disappear forever WILL need to change certain things about their appearance if they stay in the USA.

    I think this should be looked at with professional face recognition software. I wish and hope this can go to the FBI!!!

    The things which make me think this MIGHT be Tara-- Style of dress, big hair, makeup, large smile, size, and eyes. At this point, with no other info or photos, I'd be more than 50% inclined to think it could be her.

    Maybe wishful thinking, IDK.. The person in the UID photo looks so happy, radiantly happy and healthy. That's what I want for Tara most of all!!
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  39. #48
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    I always thought some random stranger saw Tara that day at the Pageant and followed her home. She was sweet and friendly and very tired that night and may have let someone in or open the door.

    It could be she left in a car with someone she knew. I think her obssession with the ex boyfriend would have brought her out of hiding. She would be too tempted.

    MO

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeekingJana View Post
    I think it could be her. The face is fuller, but Tara was known to gain weight pretty rapidly. Also, she could have had a child and put on some pounds in the face. It happens.

    As far as dental work- Tara was smart about changing one's smile and features. She could easily have had veneers, or changed veneers..
    I see similarities in hairline, eyes, and mouth. In fact, I don't see anything that makes me go " No way" and I do about most photo comparisons.

    THE UID lady's CHIN shape is broader.. but a chin implant would change the shape. Tara would probably go for this, as she has a small, almost pointy chin in her photos.... as well as having some more cosmetic dental work. A young and beautiful person who wants to disappear forever WILL need to change certain things about their appearance if they stay in the USA.

    I think this should be looked at with professional face recognition software. I wish and hope this can go to the FBI!!!

    The things which make me think this MIGHT be Tara-- Style of dress, big hair, makeup, large smile, size, and eyes. At this point, with no other info or photos, I'd be more than 50% inclined to think it could be her.

    Maybe wishful thinking, IDK.. The person in the UID photo looks so happy, radiantly happy and healthy. That's what I want for Tara most of all!!
    I really see a lot of similarity in the cheek bones...

  41. #50
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    believe09 is offline For nothing is secret that will not be revealed
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    I can see why you thought she was similar in appearance. Respectfully, Tara's face shape is different imo, and the space between Tara's lips to her chin seems to be longer than the woman whose picture was reproduced from the facebook page. I think Tara's face is much more of an oval with a somewhat pointed chin. JMO.
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