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View Poll Results: Why did Madeleine 'go missing'?

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  • She was abducted

    187 36.74%
  • She wandered off and disappeared

    14 2.75%
  • She was overdosed on sedatives; parents covered it up

    168 33.01%
  • She met with an accident; parents covered it up

    65 12.77%
  • One of her parents was violent to her and killed her

    63 12.38%
  • Any other reason Madeleine went missing

    12 2.36%

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  1. #1
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    Why did Madeleine 'go missing'?

    Why did Madeleine 'go missing'?: POLL

  2. #2
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    Wish you would have put an option for premeditated murder...I voted for the 2nd most obvious to me. Violent killing of an innocent child. (Not accidental crime of rage in my humble oppenion.)

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    Not premeditated

    Clearly premeditated murder comes within 'killing' but is understandably treated more seriously by the courts when it comes to sentencing.

    I've read on the Madeleine case intensely for around 8 months now and am aware of the reasons why people say Madeleine was murdered with premediation.

    I am not at all persuaded, and if I had been premeditating something like that, I am sure there would be many easier ways of doing it than making such a botched claim of an abduction, apparently leaving traces of blood and the scent of death in the apartment. And premediated by whom? Just the McCanns? Or others as well?

    If you have cogent reasons for believing this was premediated, as opposed to a swift, clever and calculated response to an unforeseen death, please share with us what those reasons are

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    The only way I would think it was premeditated is if it was a Government scheme for some purpose - to highlight & push legislation through - microchipping or whatever! I do believe that Madeleine is dead though so if this then something went badly wrong!

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    I would think that premeditated murder could have been carried out in a much more "believable" fashion. Like a tragic accident or a accidental poisoning in their own home.

    This whole case stinks of a panicked reaction to a sudden circumstance.

    IMHO, of course.

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    I wonder how true are the rumors that a book was found in their apartment about how to hide cadavers and that Gerry brought it from the US in the last days of July.

    If is true AND he bought this book prior to May 3rd....then is premeditation.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg2UQbpDB5c

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Bennett View Post
    Clearly premeditated murder comes within 'killing' but is understandably treated more seriously by the courts when it comes to sentencing.

    I've read on the Madeleine case intensely for around 8 months now and am aware of the reasons why people say Madeleine was murdered with premediation.

    I am not at all persuaded, and if I had been premeditating something like that, I am sure there would be many easier ways of doing it than making such a botched claim of an abduction, apparently leaving traces of blood and the scent of death in the apartment. And premediated by whom? Just the McCanns? Or others as well?

    If you have cogent reasons for believing this was premediated, as opposed to a swift, clever and calculated response to an unforeseen death, please share with us what those reasons are

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I'm not sure if I will meet your criteria for an appropriate response, but I'll try to give you my version of a not so cogent reason for my belief...

    First, I do not believe the murder/cover-up of Madeleine McCann was botched. Far from it. It's been a year, and the McCanns have been basically living off of donated money high on the hog. They are no closer to being arrested today than 12 months ago. Besides having their arguido status lifted, they have received everything they have asked for/demanded. They have more influential supporters/backers than Heinz has pickles. They have 7 lovely amazingly devoted friends that have risked their careers and families for them. There is nothing botched about any of it. The trial would be over and the McCanns tucked safely in prison if Madeleine's disappearance was poorly planned. Which is my point in believing it was pre-meditated murder.

    Don't you think it's odd that no one besides family has spoken publicly about Madeleine? Preschool teachers, Sunday school teachers, baby sitters, Nannies, neighbors...Where are they? We know nothing about Madeleine because no one really knew her. All we know are hints from Kate. The Grandma's don't even talk much about her except to say she was "lovely". Really, all we know is from Kate.

    So, we have an IVF child, who was often too much for Kate to handle. A science experiment gone bad if you will, for 2 Doctors who see death frequently, and have become callous to it. I believe there was much more to poor little Madeleine. I believe Madeleine suffered from a lifelong developmental delay, (Probably Autism, PDD-Nos or something equally difficult), and Kate & Gerry could not deal with it. Being narcissistic, they could not let an imperfect child interfere with their perfect life...Remember Gerry's comment on the bus..."We are not here to have fun".

    They did their homework, everything was planned. If you think a million +pound fund could be established within a week of a freak abduction, I would rethink it again. Wheels of progress do not work that quickly unless the wheels are already in motion. Supposedly one of the Tapas friends suggested the holiday getaway, and I think Kate and Gerry jumped at the opportunity. I think they chose Portugal because it was a geographically close foreign country with a language barrier and a Police force that had very little experience with missing children. The holiday friends were perfect companions...gullible and needy for friendship. I don't think any of the Tapas group know the real truth, but at least 2 more know she is dead and think it was an accident.
    Last edited by iNTERESTEDWOMAN; 05-12-2008 at 12:37 PM. Reason: Spelling errors & grammer

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by colomom View Post
    I would think that premeditated murder could have been carried out in a much more "believable" fashion. Like a tragic accident or a accidental poisoning in their own home.

    This whole case stinks of a panicked reaction to a sudden circumstance.

    IMHO, of course.

    There are a pot full of people who have donated lots of money for this "unbelievable" abduction.

    The McCanns did their homework. They are narcissistic. Why have your kid drown in the back yard pool when you can make millions off of an international abduction? Their buddy Ed Smart is famous because of his daughters abduction. Parents who become activist after their child is abducted become hero's in today's society, (RIGHTY SO IMO). The McCanns wanted the best of both worlds. Get rid of their problem child, and become famous. What more could a narcissistic ego laden couple ask for??

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by iNTERESTEDWOMAN View Post
    I'm not sure if I will meet your criteria for an appropriate response, but I'll try to give you my version of a not so cogent reason for my belief...

    First, I do not believe the murder/cover-up of Madeleine McCann was botched. Far from it. It's been a year, and the McCanns have been basically living off of donated money high on the hog. They are no closer to being arrested today than 12 months ago. Besides having their arguido status lifted, they have received everything they have asked for/demanded. They have more influential supporters/backers than Heinz has pickles. They have 7 lovely amazingly devoted friends that have risked their careers and families for them. There is nothing botched about any of it. The trial would be over and the McCanns tucked safely in prison if Madeleine's disappearance was poorly planned. Which is my point in believing it was pre-meditated murder.

    Don't you think it's odd that no one besides family has spoken publicly about Madeleine? Preschool teachers, Sunday school teachers, baby sitters, Nannies, neighbors...Where are they? We know nothing about Madeleine because no one really knew her. All we know are hints from Kate. The Grandma's don't even talk much about her except to say she was "lovely". Really, all we know is from Kate.

    So, we have an IVF child, who was often too much for Kate to handle. A science experiment gone bad if you will, for 2 Doctors who see death frequently, and have become callous to it. I believe there was much more to poor little Madeleine. I believe Madeleine suffered from a lifelong developmental delay, (Probably Autism, PDD-Nos or something equally difficult), and Kate & Gerry could not deal with it. Being narcissistic, they could not let an imperfect child interfere with their perfect life...Remember Gerry's comment on the bus..."We are not here to have fun".

    They did their homework, everything was planned. If you think a million +pound fund could be established within a week of a freak abduction, I would rethink it again. Wheels of progress do not work that quickly unless the wheels are already in motion. Supposedly one of the Tapas friends suggested the holiday getaway, and I think Kate and Gerry jumped at the opportunity. I think they chose Portugal because it was a geographically close foreign country with a language barrier and a Police force that had very little experience with missing children. The holiday friends were perfect companions...gullible and needy for friendship. I don't think any of the Tapas group know the real truth, but at least 2 more know she is dead and think it was an accident.
    I do agree with points that you make IW, everything did swing (excuse the pun) into place very quickly & I do sway between premeditated & spontaneous violence! However one point, if Gerry was planning this would he virtually announce his intention by saying "We are not here to have fun"? However, it certainly was a most peculiar comment for someone just embarking on a holiday! Actually voicing that would make one believe that the others knew the purpose of the trip was not for pleasure & that they were all in on it, whatever "it" was! We don'tknow exactly but it was sure related to Madeleine's demise!

    I do tend to agree that it was very well orchestrated, whatever happened in so far as a body has never been found & they have not been charged with anything thus far!

  10. #10
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    Reply to iNTERESTEDWOMAN

    iINTERESTEDWOMAN,

    I'll try to give you my version of a not so cogent reason for my belief...

    REPLY: It was a good, considered reply, thanks, here is my response

    ++++++

    First, I do not believe the murder/cover-up of Madeleine McCann was botched.

    REPLY: Even on my worst case scenario, i.e. one of the parents losing their temper and thereby killing Madleine, that might well be dealt with by a charge of manslaughter rather than murder. The timelines and cover story for May 3rd does seem 'botched', as you put it, given the many contradictions and changes of story we have had. It did not convince the Portuguese Judiciara not has it convinced the millions of McCann-sceptics out there

    ++++++

    It's been a year, and the McCanns have been basically living off of donated money high on the hog. They are no closer to being arrested today than 12 months ago.

    REPLY: We don't really know how close or far away the PJ are from bringing charges. They may well be a lot closer than we think

    ++++++

    Besides having their arguido status lifted, they have received everything they have asked for/demanded. They have more influential supporters/backers than Heinz has pickles. They have 7 lovely amazingly devoted friends that have risked their careers and families for them. There is nothing botched about any of it. The trial would be over and the McCanns tucked safely in prison if Madeleine's disappearance was poorly planned. Which is my point in believing it was pre-meditated murder.

    REPLY: It does not necessarily follow that Madeleine's demise was pre-planned. Given their existing contacts, and the possibility that Clarence Mitchell himself was in Praia da Luz at the time or there may have been other high-level people involved in Madeleine's life being lost (if indeed that is what has happened), a cover-up and associated pre-emptive publicity campaign could IMO be swiftly arranged. Gerry McCann seems to have high level contacts by virtue of his membership of the Labour Party, and his job and related interests, and maybe in the media as well. There is a high degree of nexus between the Labour Party and the main British media for example. All of this could -and I say did - kick in even though Madeleine's death was unforeseen and unplanned

    ++++++

    Don't you think it's odd that no one besides family has spoken publicly about Madeleine? Preschool teachers, Sunday school teachers, baby sitters, Nannies, neighbours...Where are they?

    REPLY: Maybe they are too frightened to speak

    ++++++

    We know nothing about Madeleine because no one really knew her. All we know are hints from Kate. The Grandma's don't even talk much about her except to say she was "lovely". Really, all we know is from Kate.

    REPLY: Here I agree. The Find Madeleine Trust Fund had a very bald statement about Madeleine (it is still there I think) describing Madeleine as something like "A four yera old child who was abducted on 3 May 2007". It struck me as an astonishingly cold, unbelievably brief and utterly factual statement that really conveyed nothing at all about her. As if the parents were trying to somehow distance themselves from her

    ++++++

    So, we have an IVF child, who was often too much for Kate to handle. A science experiment gone bad if you will, for 2 Doctors who see death frequently, and have become callous to it. I believe there was much more to poor little Madeleine. I believe Madeleine suffered from a lifelong developmental delay, (Probably Autism, PDD-Nos or something equally difficult), and Kate & Gerry could not deal with it.

    REPLY: Though this is an area largely hidden from our view, you may be on the right lines. However, I do balance that by noting that there are many many pictures of a smiling, happy Madeleine who looks well fed, turned out and cared for. Unfortunately if a child is left on their own whilst the parents are out enjoying themeslves, and if one or both is plastered with alcohol or stoned with drugs, anything can happen. A loss of control is very likley in such circumstances, especially given the account on some Forums that the McCanns were summoned at their drinking den (on 1 or 2 May - accounts differ) because Madeleine had apparently been sobbing her heart out crying 'Daddy' for between 75 minutes and 2 hours (again, accounts differ)

    ++++++

    Being narcissistic, they could not let an imperfect child interfere with their perfect life...Remember Gerry's comment on the bus..."We are not here to have fun".

    REPLY: I have thought a lot about this. I think there is a danger of reading too much into this one short comment. For example, there were threads on the old 'Mirror Forum' suggesting that the Tapas 9 were on a kind of 'week-away private seminar' primarily to discuss a project to vastly extend Glenfield Hospital, and award themselves lucrative jobs in the process. Something like that could well account for his comment

    ++++++

    They did their homework, everything was planned. If you think a million +pound fund could be established within a week of a freak abduction, I would rethink it again. Wheels of progress do not work that quickly unless the wheels are already in motion.

    REPLY: Here again I disagree. Once again, if you have already established high-level contacts, such a fund could well be put in place within a few days of an unforeseen and possibly tragic event, if you have a group of top experts all working together

    ++++++

    Supposedly one of the Tapas friends suggested the holiday getaway, and I think Kate and Gerry jumped at the opportunity. I think they chose Portugal because it was a geographically close foreign country with a language barrier and a Police force that had very little experience with missing children.

    REPLY: Hadn't the McCanns been to Praia da Luz once before?

    ++++++

    The holiday friends were perfect companions...gullible and needy for friendship. I don't think any of the Tapas group know the real truth, but at least 2 more know she is dead and think it was an accident.

    REPLY: The motive for the apparent cover-up by the rest of the 'Tapas 9' and trail of false stories that the 'Tapas 9' appear to have laid is far from clear to me. I put great weight on David Payne's early reported comment, which was something like: "We have a pact of silence. This is our matter; no-one else's" (! - how wrong can you be?!).

    To my mind that speaks of them being bound together by something deeper than just friendship. Something akin to a Freemason's irrevocable vow of silence, for example.

    Anyway, thanks again for clarifying your view on this issue. It has helped me to clarify why I think Madeleine's demise was not premeditated

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by Tony Bennett; 05-12-2008 at 06:53 PM. Reason: Change formatting


  11. #11
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    Tony Bennett wrote:
    REPLY: Though this is an area largely hidden from our view, you may be on the right lines. However, I do balance that by noting that there are many many pictures of a smiling, happy Madeleine who looks well fed, turned out and cared for. Unfortunately if a child is left on their own whilst the parents are out enjoying themeslves, and if one or both is plastered with alcohol or stoned with drugs, anything can happen. A loss of control is very likley in such circumstances, especially given the account on some Forums that the McCanns were summoned at their drinking den (on 1 or 2 May - accounts differ) because Madeleine had apparently been sobbing her heart out crying 'Daddy' for between 75 minutes and 2 hours (again, accounts differ)
    The thing with autism, or something on the spectrum, you can't just look at a child's picture, or a short video clip and tell they have it. I've seen hundreds of pictures of autistic children smiling on various autism websites. Most autistics I know have good days. It's what you don't see, that is problematic. The hyperactivity, the tactile sensitivities, the learning disabilities, the poop smearing, the hand flapping, the running out into traffic, the melt downs, and the list goes on and on.

    There was a story a few months ago about a mother doctor killing her autistic daughter by suffocating her, (poor little baby ), the Grandparents posted several pictures of her online, smiling, healthy and well care for, it didn't stop her mother from taking her life though....let me try and find the link.

    I know it's a long shot, but this is something I felt in my gut from about the beginning, before I ever got heavily active in any Madeleine discussion.

  12. #12
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    I am the mom of a "high functioning" autistic son (8). Physically he is like any other kid, he is also very, VERY social (unlike most autistic children), nobody knows he is autistic unless we tell them or he is having a meltdown.

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    Madeleine and Fetal Alcohol Syndrome

    iNTERESTED WOMAN,

    'Autism' is of course quite a broad term for something that, as I understand it, does not have a proven genetic cause.

    I am sure you are right that some autistic children exhibit the kinds of features you describe. And we know of course from Kate McCann's own mouth that Madeleine cried a lot for - was it the first 18 months? - of her life.

    There is however another disagnosis that might fit here.

    Namely: Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.

    The specific cause of this is the mother drinking considerable quantities of alcohol, especially during the first three months of pregnancy. The diagnosis of 'autism' has frequently been made when, on further analysis, 'Fetal Alcohol Syndrome' would be the more accurate diagnosis.

    Another way of putting it would be to say that some children are autistic because of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.

    In Kate McCann's case we have reports - not denied - that she drank a lot of alcohol at Univeristy. We also know that whilst at Praia da Luz last May, she and her friends were knocking back rather a lot of wine and strawberry daiquiris.

    Thus to raise the possibility that Madeleine was born with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome is not by any means far-fetched.

    As for the effects of alcohol consumption by the mother on an unborn child, and a description of the nature and effects of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, rather than attempt to describe these myself, I'd refer you to sites on the Internet which go into this in more detail.

    It has to be said that this is a relatively recentlly-recognised condition and also that it seems to be on the increase

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Bennett View Post
    iNTERESTED WOMAN,

    'Autism' is of course quite a broad term for something that, as I understand it, does not have a proven genetic cause.

    I am sure you are right that some autistic children exhibit the kinds of features you describe. And we know of course from Kate McCann's own mouth that Madeleine cried a lot for - was it the first 18 months? - of her life.

    There is however another disagnosis that might fit here.

    Namely: Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.

    The specific cause of this is the mother drinking considerable quantities of alcohol, especially during the first three months of pregnancy. The diagnosis of 'autism' has frequently been made when, on further analysis, 'Fetal Alcohol Syndrome' would be the more accurate diagnosis.

    Another way of putting it would be to say that some children are autistic because of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.

    In Kate McCann's case we have reports - not denied - that she drank a lot of alcohol at Univeristy. We also know that whilst at Praia da Luz last May, she and her friends were knocking back rather a lot of wine and strawberry daiquiris.

    Thus to raise the possibility that Madeleine was born with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome is not by any means far-fetched.

    As for the effects of alcohol consumption by the mother on an unborn child, and a description of the nature and effects of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, rather than attempt to describe these myself, I'd refer you to sites on the Internet which go into this in more detail.

    It has to be said that this is a relatively recentlly-recognised condition and also that it seems to be on the increase

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Excellent Point Tony Bennett. Whoa...FAS is VERY possible. I never thought about that, but fits perfectly. I know a little 3rd grade girl with FAS and she is a mess...but not always. She is a foster child of a couple I know. They have had to purchase special locks for their doors that she can not excape from. She has run off dozens of times and has no concept of danger. At school she has major problems.

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    It has never been my position to defend Kate McCann but regarding her alleged abuse of alcohol, I looked at the palms of her hands when she was on TV recently. Now a heavy drinker is known to have red palms, if you google you will see it is related to heay drinking & even liver damage, (I do know someone who has an alcohol problem & her palms are firey red) & In fairness from what I could see her palms looked pretty white to me.
    Irks me to defend her in any way but have to be honest! People can drink excessively on ocasions such as holidays & at college without it being a lifelong, year round problem!

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