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Thread: WA - Nicholas Francisco, 28, Seattle, 13 Feb 2008 - #10

  1. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by LillyRush View Post
    Interesting. You are up in the Snohomish Co. area though, right? Maybe it's different there. I've only ever been to the Seattle one on 4th Ave, in SoDo. People have had to use cash or their Costco Visa or MC. Of course, maybe that has changed recently.

    Yes, I live in Skagit County. Ours has been this for a long time. You can also use Mastercard and cash of course. They are just really picky. I don't have a pin number with my debit...my choice...and they wouldn't let me use it so I had to write a check.

  2. #477
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    With everything that has been found on the internet being rejected I've come to realize that no one just using the internet will find anything to help because it will all just be rejected like the Stevenspazz information. There is a picture but many just don't believe it is him even though if it isn't him it would almost have to be his twin.

    This also made me realize that he could have been seen thousands of times in real life and no one will say anything. Why? because someone will see him and figure it just can't be him and if they ask him if he is Nicholas and he says no they will just go away. No proof you know don't want to get in trouble for reporting the wrong person.

    I got together yesterday with an old friend. He lives in Seattle and he had never seen a poster or heard anything about Nicholas. He did give me some ideas that I hadn't thought of and I'm going to send him some pictures so he can keep an eye out. He is a sweetheart and he does got to "those" places.

    It also made me realize that people could buy a hundred domains and make thousands of web sites and it won't matter in the least because if people don't know he is missing they will never see them and if they do know they don't need another web site.

    Good luck with "just the facts"

  3. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoManyQuestions
    With everything that has been found on the internet being rejected I've come to realize that no one just using the internet will find anything to help because it will all just be rejected like the Stevenspazz information. There is a picture but many just don't believe it is him even though if it isn't him it would almost have to be his twin.

    This also made me realize that he could have been seen thousands of times in real life and no one will say anything. Why? because someone will see him and figure it just can't be him and if they ask him if he is Nicholas and he says no they will just go away. No proof you know don't want to get in trouble for reporting the wrong person.

    I got together yesterday with an old friend. He lives in Seattle and he had never seen a poster or heard anything about Nicholas. He did give me some ideas that I hadn't thought of and I'm going to send him some pictures so he can keep an eye out. He is a sweetheart and he does got to "those" places.

    It also made me realize that people could buy a hundred domains and make thousands of web sites and it won't matter in the least because if people don't know he is missing they will never see them and if they do know they don't need another web site.

    Good luck with "just the facts"
    While it is true that some have rejected some of what has been found I don't believe it has all been rejected by all. We are continuing to research to hopefully find info to back up or to rule out much of it. Additionally, Harlett has emailed LE with much of what has been found. LE is perhaps in a better position to discern what is fact and what is not or cannot yet be believed to be fact concerning some of it.

    I hope that with all of the websites, missing fliers publicity that we can help to find Nicholas, yet I understand what you are saying. Overall, I remain positive, but at times I have to work on that. I can only imagine what his family feels.

    Thank you for talking with your friend, and please tell him thank you for keeping his eye out for Nicholas.

  4. #479
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    Thank you, RK for the info on the keys. So now that has me wondering ---
    If he drove to the condos himself, got out, took the keys and left the car unlocked - and walked away, keys in pocket?
    Or did someone else find the car with the keys in it and drive it to the condos and now they have the keys?
    If Nic was planning to leave the car, why didn't he just leave the keys in it? Or did he?
    Questions, questions.

  5. #480
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    yw, now those are questions we don't have the answers to. You are right, one question leads to another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter17 View Post
    Thank you, RK for the info on the keys. So now that has me wondering ---
    If he drove to the condos himself, got out, took the keys and left the car unlocked - and walked away, keys in pocket?
    Or did someone else find the car with the keys in it and drive it to the condos and now they have the keys?
    If Nic was planning to leave the car, why didn't he just leave the keys in it? Or did he?
    Questions, questions.
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  6. #481
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    I wonder if Nicholas went to lunch the day he went missing. If so, did he go alone? Did he meet someone somewhere and make plans, etc?
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  7. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter
    Thank you, RK for the info on the keys. So now that has me wondering ---
    If he drove to the condos himself, got out, took the keys and left the car unlocked - and walked away, keys in pocket?
    Or did someone else find the car with the keys in it and drive it to the condos and now they have the keys?
    If Nic was planning to leave the car, why didn't he just leave the keys in it? Or did he?
    Questions, questions.
    My thoughts are that it might be helpful to know what habits Nicholas had concerning the locking/not locking of his car.

    For example, I have an uncle who is a retired Lt. Col. in the air force who also had top clearance when he served. Yet, he routinely leaves his car doors unlocked--everywhere he goes. He left dollar bills in the console that were clearly visible to anyone who were to have looked in when we were in Queens, NYC last October. I suggested he may want to at least obscure the money, yet he didn't think there was any need to or that anyone would break in.

    I would have expected him to be the opposite based on his career and safety measures he takes in many areas in his life.

    My guess is that Christine would know his typical habits. I don't expect her to share them with us, but I would sure like to know if Nicholas had a habit of leaving his door unlocked and under what circumstances. For example, would he typically lock his doors unless he only planned on running inside (convenience store, house, friend's house, bank, anywhere) for a moment? Did he habitually lock his doors under all circumstances? Or did he have no defined habits concerning this?

    This still may tell us nothing--but it might help us to fit pieces together further. Then again it may not. Who knows? If he left voluntarily it was a good idea to do what he did, imo. Yet, if he met with foul play and did not generally leave his car doors unlocked that may be something--or not. I will keep this in mind, Dexter. Good questions!

  8. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter17 View Post
    Thank you, RK for the info on the keys. So now that has me wondering ---
    If he drove to the condos himself, got out, took the keys and left the car unlocked - and walked away, keys in pocket?
    Or did someone else find the car with the keys in it and drive it to the condos and now they have the keys?
    If Nic was planning to leave the car, why didn't he just leave the keys in it? Or did he?
    Questions, questions.
    Seattle has an above average amount of car thefts (mainly because its barely a felony), and from what I understand, sometimes the stolen car is "shared" between a group of friends until they get a "new" one. LE has stated that the ignition was intact, so shouldn't someone have had the key?

    I've had friends whose cars have been stolen, and the police have told them that its usually someone who didn't want to take the bus so they take a car instead. These cars have never been found, and they were new models, old models, big SUV's, little cars. So the fact that he drove a little old car doesn't seem to mean much.

    But where would his car have been stolen from? Doesn't make any sense, if he stopped for gas (somewhere), we'd have Nicholas. If he stopped for sugar (somewhere) ... Nicholas, and same for an ATM. There's carjackings, but I'm really sure that no one has ever been kidnapped because of one.

  9. #484
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    I asked the question as to whether Nicholas was known to lock his car doors alongtime ago, I never did find out the answer to that one..booo hoooo! I'm stealing Otter's bunny.

    Quote Originally Posted by LionRun View Post
    My thoughts are that it might be helpful to know what habits Nicholas had concerning the locking/not locking of his car.

    For example, I have an uncle who is a retired Lt. Col. in the air force who also had top clearance when he served. Yet, he routinely leaves his car doors unlocked--everywhere he goes. He left dollar bills in the console that were clearly visible to anyone who were to have looked in when we were in Queens, NYC last October. I suggested he may want to at least obscure the money, yet he didn't think there was any need to or that anyone would break in.

    I would have expected him to be the opposite based on his career and safety measures he takes in many areas in his life.

    My guess is that Christine would know his typical habits. I don't expect her to share them with us, but I would sure like to know if Nicholas had a habit of leaving his door unlocked and under what circumstances. For example, would he typically lock his doors unless he only planned on running inside (convenience store, house, friend's house, bank, anywhere) for a moment? Did he habitually lock his doors under all circumstances? Or did he have no defined habits concerning this?

    This still may tell us nothing--but it might help us to fit pieces together further. Then again it may not. Who knows? If he left voluntarily it was a good idea to do what he did, imo. Yet, if he met with foul play and did not generally leave his car doors unlocked that may be something--or not. I will keep this in mind, Dexter. Good questions!
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  10. #485
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    I've been reading the wealth of information and clicking on links on RKnowley's google docs that she created for herself and for all of us who wish to research this case and want to help find Nicholas.

    I wanted to help answer some good questions that posters here asked, but soon I realised that if I do that I may become a thread hog So many answers may lead to countless posts. Perhaps for those who want answers and clarifications it might help to answer some of those questions by reading there. I can almost guarantee that some questions will be answered--yet we may end up with more questions. This is typical for most investigations, and I hope that folks don't feel too discouraged if this happens.

    It takes a lot of dead ends and questions built on questions to find the eventual answers--if they are found at all. Hopefully, we will find the answers and facts we need to help find Nicholas. We may have already helped and don't know it, yet or we may help if we stick to it. This is what I plan to do in any case. Here is the link for RKnowley's google docs.

    http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dc...vision=_latest

  11. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter17 View Post

    As for the video at the ATM- wasn't there a time lag between his going missing and LE finding he'd withdrawn money? If so, they often re-tape over the videos every week, I've heard. Seems like the info on the withdrawal didn't come out til maybe a month later. (as i recall)
    JMO
    Aha, Dexter... perhaps you have solved the video question for us!

    The reason for no ATM video could be the lag in time before LE ever knew of the
    withdrawal.

    It sounds logical to me.

  12. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knowley
    I asked the question as to whether Nicholas was known to lock his car doors alongtime ago, I never did find out the answer to that one..booo hoooo! I'm stealing Otter's bunny.
    Can I steal Otter's bunny from you after you are finished with her bunny? I promise to give Otter back her bunny when I am finished.

  13. #488
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    Well.........being it's a bunny, they multiply pretty quickly, perhaps soon, we can all have one of our own?? LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by LionRun View Post
    Can I steal Otter's bunny from you after you are finished with her bunny? I promise to give Otter back her bunny when I am finished.
    *******************************************
    Princess Blue
    Located September 10, 1990 in Manvel, Texas

    Could Princess Blue be identified soon Princess Blue? Follow us at the link below
    Princess Blue Forum to find out.

    ***************************************
    Kimberly Shawn Cheatham
    Missing from Dallas, Texas since April 8, 1989

    Where is Kimberly Shawn Cheatham?

    ******************************************

  14. #489
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    Lion, answer any questions you can, please. I won't feel you are a thread hog. I welcome any questions and answers that there are. It may lead us to something that may help to find Nicholas.

    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by LionRun View Post
    I've been reading the wealth of information and clicking on links on RKnowley's google docs that she created for herself and for all of us who wish to research this case and want to help find Nicholas.

    I wanted to help answer some good questions that posters here asked, but soon I realised that if I do that I may become a thread hog So many answers may lead to countless posts. Perhaps for those who want answers and clarifications it might help to answer some of those questions by reading there. I can almost guarantee that some questions will be answered--yet we may end up with more questions. This is typical for most investigations, and I hope that folks don't feel too discouraged if this happens.

    It takes a lot of dead ends and questions built on questions to find the eventual answers--if they are found at all. Hopefully, we will find the answers and facts we need to help find Nicholas. We may have already helped and don't know it, yet or we may help if we stick to it. This is what I plan to do in any case. Here is the link for RKnowley's google docs.

    http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dc...vision=_latest
    *******************************************
    Princess Blue
    Located September 10, 1990 in Manvel, Texas

    Could Princess Blue be identified soon Princess Blue? Follow us at the link below
    Princess Blue Forum to find out.

    ***************************************
    Kimberly Shawn Cheatham
    Missing from Dallas, Texas since April 8, 1989

    Where is Kimberly Shawn Cheatham?

    ******************************************

  15. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by LionRun View Post
    Can I steal Otter's bunny from you after you are finished with her bunny? I promise to give Otter back her bunny when I am finished.


    I rarely lock my car, there really isn't anything to steal in it and I'd rather have someone find that out for themselves than breaking or window or worse, popping out the lock on the door. But I got this weird battery I can set by remote that allows the car to be started but without turning off the code, the engine shuts down in 30 seconds or once its put into gear. Its pretty neat.

    QA is a very busy area, both traffic and pedestrians. It seems so unlikely to me, if not impossible, that if something happened there, no one would have seen it, especially at that hour! Where would something have happened ... where did he stop where someone could do something to him without anyone else seeing?

    Either scenario in his disappearance is so tragic, maybe that's why I'm leaning toward his walking on his own. I could let my imagination run away with the "secret life", and he met someone somewhere secluded ... ugh. Don't want to go there, there's no confirmation about the "secret life" beyond a membership on AFF. And has LE even confirmed that? Harlett has, and that's good enough for me, but LE is LE.

    Bunny should take a nap, I've resorted to babbling.

  16. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otter


    I rarely lock my car, there really isn't anything to steal in it and I'd rather have someone find that out for themselves than breaking or window or worse, popping out the lock on the door. But I got this weird battery I can set by remote that allows the car to be started but without turning off the code, the engine shuts down in 30 seconds or once its put into gear. Its pretty neat.

    QA is a very busy area, both traffic and pedestrians. It seems so unlikely to me, if not impossible, that if something happened there, no one would have seen it, especially at that hour! Where would something have happened ... where did he stop where someone could do something to him without anyone else seeing?

    Either scenario in his disappearance is so tragic, maybe that's why I'm leaning toward his walking on his own. I could let my imagination run away with the "secret life", and he met someone somewhere secluded ... ugh. Don't want to go there, there's no confirmation about the "secret life" beyond a membership on AFF. And has LE even confirmed that? Harlett has, and that's good enough for me, but LE is LE.

    Bunny should take a nap, I've resorted to babbling.
    Please keep babbling, Otter. BTW, I don't think you're babbling. I'm listening and learning all the while with what you say and with what others say.

    I don't know if Harlett has heard back from LE about the info she sent that a few days ago. We may never hear anything back, and I understand that. Hopefully, we will though.

  17. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by RKnowley View Post
    Well.........being it's a bunny, they multiply pretty quickly, perhaps soon, we can all have one of our own?? LOL
    No problem, RK. Since I've got experience with creatures of various species I volunteer to breed and adopt out special, crying bunnies to all who ask for them. Any color preferences on the bunnies?.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rknowley
    Lion, answer any questions you can, please. I won't feel you are a thread hog. I welcome any questions and answers that there are. It may lead us to something that may help to find Nicholas.
    Thank you, RK. I will when I can and have time to research. And, I hope that others can make use of your site as I have.

  18. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by LionRun View Post
    Please keep babbling, Otter. BTW, I don't think you're babbling. I'm listening and learning all the while with what you say and with what others say.

    I don't know if Harlett has heard back from LE about the info she sent that a few days ago. We may never hear anything back, and I understand that. Hopefully, we will though.
    Careful Lion, you don't realize what you've opened yourself up for.

    "We may never hear back anything". That's been my thought for weeks now, although Nicholas is still considered a missing person. He's not a kid or an endangered adult that would make a search more intense. I'm wondering if there is just enough of a paper trail, however scant, that is leading in a way that he did up and leave. Things we aren't privy too, nor would we be.

    If he went hiking up in the Cascades alone, or some activity like that he could be another unfortunate person the mountains got. But he disappeared between QA and Federal Way (at least his car ended up there). It makes no sense to me, foul play, its just too congested. Seattle and the environs are an hourglass, Seattle being the narrowest part. There's not too many ways in and out, too much water, too much traffic, to go unnoticed IMO.

    I just want him to be alive, possibly a victim of his own bad choices and those can be forgiven by his family when they are ready. And that would be private.

    The only bad person involved is the one, IF something violent happened to Nicholas, who perpetrated the crime.

  19. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otter
    Careful Lion, you don't realize what you've opened yourself up for.

    "We may never hear back anything". That's been my thought for weeks now, although Nicholas is still considered a missing person. He's not a kid or an endangered adult that would make a search more intense. I'm wondering if there is just enough of a paper trail, however scant, that is leading in a way that he did up and leave. Things we aren't privy too, nor would we be.

    If he went hiking up in the Cascades alone, or some activity like that he could be another unfortunate person the mountains got. But he disappeared between QA and Federal Way (at least his car ended up there). It makes no sense to me, foul play, its just too congested. Seattle and the environs are an hourglass, Seattle being the narrowest part. There's not too many ways in and out, too much water, too much traffic, to go unnoticed IMO.

    I just want him to be alive, possibly a victim of his own bad choices and those can be forgiven by his family when they are ready. And that would be private.

    The only bad person involved is the one, IF something violent happened to Nicholas, who perpetrated the crime.
    Uh oh, what have I gotten myself into?

    Although, there doesn't seem to be evidence of foul play regarding Nicholas's disappearance I don't think we can rule it out with what we have. I agree that it may be less less likely in some respects that Nicholas met with foul play because there are no witnesses to date, no evidence of foul play, and he may have disappeared from a congested area. But, there are cases where people disappeared without a trace in congested areas where foul play was later found to have occurred.

    I for some reason cannot recall the name of the young lady who disappeared from a Target p-lot fairly recently.

    ETA: Kelsey Smith was her name. Prayers to her family. May she rest in peace. There are a number of threads here about this tragic case.

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...light=Kopetsky

    There is a thread here--somewhere (sorry--can't find the link). It was broad daylight, her car was parked fairly close to the front doors, there was a security camera, and people were seen on the tape right near her as she was being forced into her car by the killer. Yet--no one saw a thing. There are other cases that are similar.

    It does happen, so I cannot rule out that this happened to Nicholas. He may be a man, and not a young woman (likely physically stronger than a petite woman). But, it still could have happened especially if a hypothetical perp had a hypothetical gun.

    He also could have walked away from his life. There are a couple of other even less likely scenarios that hypothetically could have happened, imo. I just keep pouring over info, researching, and asking questions to hopefully eventually find something that can lead me into what may be the right direction. Don't know if it ever will--but I'm still trying.
    Last edited by LionRun; 05-18-2008 at 09:57 PM. Reason: To correct post and to add a link

  20. #495
    That was almost a year ago, at target in Kansas, Overland Park area. But, the security camera did catch her abductor and murderer. They have him on tape in the store, exiting the store and at her car. He is now on trial.

    So that is what leads me to believe this isn't foul play. There is no evidence of an abduction, not on a busy well traveled street where his car was parked, not on the ATM, and not at Cosco. And although Nick's secret life doesn't mean he walked..the secret Pay pal account, the secret on line sites and friends, leaving the church, withdrawing money, his car found with no evidence and no keys or ignition breach..it leads me to believe he walked.

  21. #496
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    Depending on how extensive a search LE or Christine has done of the computer, I believe there was foul play. I believe that Nicholas would have been heavily planning his leaving with someone online and on the phone and that some record or hints of conversations would have shown up. LE has said that there is no evidence that Nicholas ran away. If the secret lifestyle was promiscuous sex and one night stands with basically strangers, then that is a risky lifestyle where foul play can happen.

  22. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by txsvicki View Post
    Depending on how extensive a search LE or Christine has done of the computer, I believe there was foul play. I believe that Nicholas would have been heavily planning his leaving with someone online and on the phone and that some record or hints of conversations would have shown up. LE has said that there is no evidence that Nicholas ran away. If the secret lifestyle was promiscuous sex and one night stands with basically strangers, then that is a risky lifestyle where foul play can happen.
    Yeah, bad choices but a naivety of the consequences.

    No way am I stating that happened!

    I'm sorry to be an echo of myself, but we really know so little. Ambiguous statments from LE and a teaser from the media, albeit old. Tossing around theories that morph into fact.

    You all are way smarter than I am. I'm just baffled and at loose ends.

    For Lion's benefit, doing my best not to babble, but I can't help it!

  23. #498
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    Let's Play A Game...

    Can you name one thing that you would consider to be a FACT in Nicholas' case?

    I will go first:

    Fact #1:

    • Nicholas Francisco, 28, was last reported seen by a co-worker, just after 6 p.m (@ approximately 6:10 PM) on Wednesday, February 13, 2008.
    *******************************************
    Princess Blue
    Located September 10, 1990 in Manvel, Texas

    Could Princess Blue be identified soon Princess Blue? Follow us at the link below
    Princess Blue Forum to find out.

    ***************************************
    Kimberly Shawn Cheatham
    Missing from Dallas, Texas since April 8, 1989

    Where is Kimberly Shawn Cheatham?

    ******************************************

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    Just a friendly reminder that THIS thread is in the discussion forum, where posters MAY discuss any possibility of cases. This is the one where families are discouraged from reading as they may hear something they do not like. I have not seen andy "bashing" of anyone here and expect all posts to be polite and within TOS. You MAY discuss any possiblity here, including Christine being involved, as long as there is no name calling and such.

  25. #500
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    Fact

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/351765_missingman18ww.html
    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/351765_missingman18ww.html

    This is where the info came from, but this was not quoted.

    Nicholas's car was found on 2/18 Monday morning at approximately 10:20 AM in the Heritage Condos parking lot located on South 340th Street in Federal Way, WA. According to Sgt. Urquhart, a resident of the Heritage Condos reported the vehicle after seeing media reports.
    Last edited by LionRun; 05-19-2008 at 04:00 AM.

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