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Thread: WI - Raymond (Racine County) - WhtFem 199UFWI, 14-25, July'99 *Graphic*

  1. #176
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    Genevieve Nicole Munoz' car was found at the Gulfport-Biloxi Regional Airport.
    She had $600.00 dollars she was saving so her parents could adopt her son.
    Michael David Lamb had recently lived in Illinois.
    Lamb's tale of events is inconsistent as to the death of Ms. Munoz.
    His mother (the only alleged witness to the murder) is deceased.
    Her body was never found.

    In light of these fact as provided by the links that Cymro posted, it could be possible that Ms. Munoz took her money and hopped a flight to Northern Illinois or Wisconsin to start a new life without Lamb, knowing her child would be safe with her parents. Depending on where Lamb lived in Illinois, he could have located her and disposed of her in Racine with out much of a drive.

    Of course it's quite possible the Racine Doe and Munoz are not related in any way. I just thought her physical stats, clothing type, as well as her nose match with the Racine Doe and was worth contacting authorities just to rule it out since no remains of Munoz have never been found.

    I am new at this so please pardon my enthusiasm.
    Last edited by Lil'E; 11-14-2009 at 08:00 PM. Reason: typo

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  3. #177
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    Possible Match

    I have made contact with both the Racine Sheriffs Dept and Biloxi Sheriffs Dept, in regard to a possible match between the Racine Jane Doe and Genevieve Munoz. I will let you know if I hear anything back from them.

    http://doenetwork.org/cases/2534dfms.html

    Genevieve Munoz
    Missing since June 11, 1994 from Biloxi, Mississippi
    Classification: Endangered Missing

    Vital Statistics

    Date Of Birth: May 16, 1976
    Age at Time of Disappearance: 18 years old
    Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'7"; 115-120 lbs.
    Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Light brown hair; hazel eyes.
    Clothing: Cutoff blue jeans and a shirt with horse designs on the front.
    AKA: Nicole
    Dentals: Available
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  5. #178
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    Although they look strikingly similar, I don't think it's a match. I applaud you and could very well be wrong but don't think you'd mind me giving my opinion.

    Reason being, I feel that the missing young woman was probably murdered shortly after she went missing. Her family didn't feel she was a runaway and this Jane Doe was found five or so years after Genevieve was last seen. The UID also had long term dental neglect and I guess if Genevieve was held captive that could be fitting but her teeth looked pretty good at the time of her dissapearance. Also, the UID was possibly cognitively disabled and there's no mention of Genevieve having those problems.

    Either way, thanks for all your work and hope to hear an outcome soon!

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  7. #179
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    Also, posters have said the Racine UID was tortured and disfigured. Doe network page for her doesn't say anything except where she was found, where are you getting the information? Thanks!

  8. #180
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    This case has always disturbed me like very few others. A uniquely sinister stench hangs around it. I hope that one day justice is done for this young woman.

  9. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Stardust View Post
    Did you ever hear back from LE? I think, Susan Cummings is a potential match.
    Yes, I did hear some time ago about another match. His advice was to look in local data bases around the Midwest, he didn't feel she was in a national base.
    They have done a lot of searching for this girl, but haven't found her. They have made sure that all LE agencies know about her.

  10. #182
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    Is there a rule out list on this UID? It sure would help to have one. I looked on Namus and they don't have hardly any info on her and her eyes are listed as brown. I thought they were green/hazel.

    I bet some pimp did this to her. I have been seeing alot of this lately on tv. They do this to teach the others a lesson.

    I really think this girl looks just like the Jane Doe. Ears, eyes, nose, mouth, even a slight assymetry in the eyes. Her drug use could have led her into prostitution which would make circumstances and timing work. She could have grown a few inches in the time that she was missing.

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...n_lurline.html

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  12. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spurser View Post
    Is there a rule out list on this UID? It sure would help to have one. I looked on Namus and they don't have hardly any info on her and her eyes are listed as brown. I thought they were green/hazel.

    I bet some pimp did this to her. I have been seeing alot of this lately on tv. They do this to teach the others a lesson.

    I really think this girl looks just like the Jane Doe. Ears, eyes, nose, mouth, even a slight assymetry in the eyes. Her drug use could have led her into prostitution which would make circumstances and timing work. She could have grown a few inches in the time that she was missing.

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...n_lurline.html
    That actually seems like the closest visual match i have seen, and the statistics could work

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  14. #184
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    We need to get the various posts merged..

    Quote Originally Posted by kygal View Post
    Here are the other threads for this case. Hopefully with the information you have we can solve this case.

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48408

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64188

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34874

    Please also remember that sometimes the information in the cases you have looked at may be incorrect. It's not because they don't know, but details could be generalizations (height and weight are good examples) for either a missing person or a JD. Do you have some besides Nyleen that you have considered the closest? I agree it looks very similar.

  15. #185
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    Last night, I was combing through the Charley archive for possibles to Crystal Rae (Racine JD), and I came across Aundria Michelle Bowman.

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...n_aundria.html

    [/URL]


    I went through this thread and found that she was already discussed as a possible for Crystal Rae. Salem indicated that she was going to call it in, but Salem made no mention of her after that.

    This looks like a very strong possible to me. There was a 10-year difference between DLC and Crystal Rae's death, but Aundria was a run-away at 14 years old, and circumstances are entirely consistent with someone being a street girl for 10 years. CR appears based on her dental condition to have been on the street for a significant amount of time.

    Now here's the kicker - Looking at CR's postmortem, it appears that her open eyes were photo-shopped into the postmortem photo.

    This is probably just the photoshopper's estimate of what her eyes looked like.




    So, I decided to do a little photoshopping of my own. I replaced her eyes with Aundria's eyes, and replaced her hair with Aundria's hair and put Aundria's shirt on her and cleaned up the background. Nothing else. I didn't touch any other portions of her face.

    What did I end up with? - With only Aundria's hair and eyes, Crystal Rae becomes --- Aundria Bowman.

    ____

    I sent a PM to Salem to find out if Salem had called it in. Salem responded that he/she did call-in on Aundria's side. Now I just need to find out what ever became of Salem's call-in.


    Here is the comparison using the superimposed eyes from the original postmortem photo.

    ______
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-09-2012 at 02:36 PM.

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  17. #186
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    Nice work Carl. I'm looking forward to any response you receive.

    Salem

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  19. #187
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    I have come across Aundria's picture many times and always felt that I'd seen a UID that looked like her but couldn't remember where. Maybe this was her.

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    b4e

  21. #188
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    Wow, I always wondered why that particular post-mortem photo gave me the willies -- usually they don't bother me in the least. But it's because the eyes don't fit.

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  23. #189
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    I just spoke with Tom Knaus of the Racine County Sheriff's Office.

    He says that he recently took over this case from a previous investigator, and has received literally hundreds of tips on this case. As we were talking, he was browsing through the list, and didn't find Aundria's name, so he doesn't think that she has been submitted before.

    (That makes me wonder what became of Salem's tip to the people in charge of Aundria's MP case).

    He told me that this one might be difficult to verify because due to Aundria's circumstances of having come from a youth home, she might not have family members from whom to obtain a DNA reference sample. But he will call around and see what he can find on Aundria.

    I asked what he thought about the resemblance. He replied that sometimes he receives tips where he knows immediately that it's not her, but he does his best to be open minded and not make initial judgments one way or the other. He conceded however, that he does see a pretty good resemblance in this case.

    He took my number, and he gave me his desk phone number (which is different from the one listed), and said that if I don't hear from him, to follow-up in a month or two.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 02-22-2010 at 02:15 PM.

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  25. #190
    I am so relieved someone submitted this girl again. I submitted it back last summer to the Child Protection Education of America Organization. However, I think the were in the process of dissolving their organization at that time and when I did not hear from them, I checked back and it was no longer operating.

    I recall including in my notes I was trying to obtain other post mortem photos because I thought there were good identifiers on the face of the deceased. This is just opinion, but I feel the more the faces are photo shopped, the greater the chance for loosing possible identifiers. I have used various methods of enhancement on the "original" photo (or as close as we have) and see what I believe to be small moles or markings that are not temporary blemishes. For instance, on the morgue Doe photo you can magnify the image and see on HER LEFT cheek (our right as we view) under and near the corner of her eye what appears to be a mole or raised area. Then on the same side of her face near the bridge of the nose there are tow more spots, one on top of the other with the same appearance. Nothing significant unless these are indeed permanent markers.

    Now, check Aundria's photo and the same 'blemishes' are there in the same spot, which indicates to me these are moles or other permanent blemishes. Also note Aundria's left side of the lower lip (better seen enhanced and enlarged), it is slightly misshapen which also matches the Doe.

    I wonder about a lot of submitted cases. Actually, I think little thought or care is put into these cases. For LE, they are is the time factor and agencies are not paying overtime. For non-profit organizations, they are money making organizations. Few care. Some do and we owe them a debt of gratitude. Then again, to be fair, they are overloaded, just as many of us are who are looking at hundreds of case files. Some do get lost in the shuffle. I am looking forward to the response on this one. Stay on them for an answer! :-)

    Sorry to be so 'preachy' on which side of the face is left or right, but honestly, I have cases where the scars, marks and tattoos are listed on the wrong side of the body. So, I don't take anything for granted.

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  27. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    This is just opinion, but I feel the more the faces are photo shopped, the greater the chance for loosing possible identifiers.
    By superimposing her own hair over the UID's hair and superimposing her eyes over the UID's "fake" eyes, and removing all other irrelevant differences between photos, it enables one to focus on the important points of comparison.

    In this case, her narrow pointy chin, distinctive nose (at the bridge, the tip, and the nostrils), protruding teeth, and cheekbones are spot-on IMO.

    The only place I see a difference is her eyebrows, but her eyebrows are similar in shape. They are only different in the density and darkness of the hair. I don't know how much of that difference is a normal effect of 10 years in aging and terrible living conditions.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 02-23-2010 at 04:01 AM.

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  29. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    I am so relieved someone submitted this girl again. .


    Me too!!!! I can't wait for a response. Hopefully it doesnt take 1 or two months, If so it would be nice if they had an unedited photo of this jane doe to help find other possible matches. I know you shouldn't go strictly on photo's but I believe it helps!
    Besides that other girl from overseas ( sorry bad memory) I think Aundria is one of the best potential matches for this jane doe.

    Although I must admit the thought of this being Aundria in paticular is very sad! I know they were thinking this jane doe had weeks of abuse leading up to her death, but what if it was really years?!?!?! I sure hope they catch whoever did this once she's identified.

    Anyways, I'm glad to see everyone here, and seeing this case get some much needed attention! This poor girl definately deserves her name back and justice!

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  31. #193
    Lil'E, did you ever hear anything about your possible match? I would love to see this case resolved. It has always haunted me, as both bodies were found in the area where I live. (One of them just a couple of miles away...)

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  33. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    By superimposing her own hair over the UID's hair and superimposing her eyes over the UID's "fake" eyes, and removing all other irrelevant differences between photos, it enables one to focus on the important points of comparison.

    In this case, her narrow pointy chin, distinctive nose (at the bridge, the tip, and the nostrils), protruding teeth, and cheekbones are spot-on IMO.

    The only place I see a difference is her eyebrows, but her eyebrows are similar in shape. They are only different in the density and darkness of the hair. I don't know how much of that difference is a normal effect of 10 years in aging and terrible living conditions.
    These are very similar Carl and your overlay is excellent. The only thing I am pointing out is that in cases where there is a recognizable face, those putting it out for comparison, including LE agencies and morgues, should not retouch the skin other than cleaning up the obvious. So many agencies are not mentioning minute identifiers such as moles or permanent blemises, which can be seen in the original photo here and they match those of the missing person, unless this is simply a very rare coincidence.
    Last edited by Mensch; 02-23-2010 at 11:01 PM.

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  35. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by kaylenbabysims View Post
    Me too!!!! I can't wait for a response. Hopefully it doesnt take 1 or two months, If so it would be nice if they had an unedited photo of this jane doe to help find other possible matches. I know you shouldn't go strictly on photo's but I believe it helps!
    Besides that other girl from overseas ( sorry bad memory) I think Aundria is one of the best potential matches for this jane doe.

    Although I must admit the thought of this being Aundria in paticular is very sad! I know they were thinking this jane doe had weeks of abuse leading up to her death, but what if it was really years?!?!?! I sure hope they catch whoever did this once she's identified.

    Anyways, I'm glad to see everyone here, and seeing this case get some much needed attention! This poor girl definately deserves her name back and justice!
    Hi kaylenbabysims,
    The photo is essential. It is a great place to start. Then searching for more photos for comparison. Jump right in and look for cases to post here. Everyone here is very helpful.

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  37. #196
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    I agree about the photos. I know every mole and freckle on my kids' bodies. I would be able to recognize a photo of them based on that alone. Heck, I could pick them out of photo line-up of feet. I believe that this poor girl's mother would be able to as well.

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  39. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spurser View Post
    I agree about the photos. I know every mole and freckle on my kids' bodies. I would be able to recognize a photo of them based on that alone. Heck, I could pick them out of photo line-up of feet. I believe that this poor girl's mother would be able to as well.
    Lol, my granmda has always joked with me if she ever had to identify me she would only need to see the bottom of my foot to confirm my identity!

    Is there a list of ruleouts for this Jane doe??? I'm just curious. There was another girl last name Reichart maybe? or something like that maybe (I have the link saved somewhere) i'm sure she's already been mentioned. I think the parents admitted to burrying her though.

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  41. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaylenbabysims View Post
    Is there a list of ruleouts for this Jane doe??? I'm just curious. There was another girl last name Reichart maybe? or something like that maybe (I have the link saved somewhere) i'm sure she's already been mentioned. I think the parents admitted to burrying her though.
    The investigator in charge of this UID case said that his rule-out list was about 15 pages long with about 30 names on each page. In my most recent e-mail to him, I asked him if Gienevieve Munoz had ever been ruled-out. I also asked if it would be possible to make the list available. I haven't yet received a response.

    Unless the list is kept electronically, it is unlikely that they would go through the trouble to get a list that long into a format that could be easily transmitted.

    Hopefully, the Aundria Bowman submission will eliminate the need for a rule-out list.

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  43. #199
    Tom Knaus is definitely one of the good guys. In a previous job, I served him coffee several times a week. I am so relieved to hear he is working on this case!

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  45. #200
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    Carl,

    I am so glad you joined Websleuths! You bring such a good, keen eye to alot of these unidentified cases... (not that others haven't), but you seem like you should be a CSI...seriously!


    I really think that overlay looks like Aundria.

    I hope LE sends you a copy of the rule outs, just so if it's not Aundria, we will know who else the UID was compared to before we would send it in as a Possible Match!

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