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  1. #1
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    VT - Nicholas Garza, 19, Middlebury College student, 5 Feb 2008 - #5


  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    Bringing forward the last post from thread #4 (mine) in case some posters jump to the new thread first.

    A couple of questions:

    1.) A family member of mine has also experienced a cell phone that was submerged in water that didn't work until 2 or 3 days later. My question is this, can the call that was supposedly made on the 6th @ 8:30 a.m. be traced to determine if it was an incoming call or one that was made from the cell??

    2.) Also, it has been reported that the tracking dogs tracked Nick's whereabouts to a porch of a vacant house. Does anyone know if they let the dogs go into the house??? Who's to say that Nick and anyone else, did not go into this house??

    If the cell was used at 8:30 a.m. on the 6th, maybe Nick was still alive all night? (Nick was last seen according to a witness statement the night before), doesn't mean that he wasn't with someone else who hasn't been interviewed by LE yet.

    3.) I don't mean to be disrespectful in any way to Nick or his family, but I find it hard to believe that Nick had no fractures of any sort. If Otter Creek was as turbulent as some of the pictures I've seen and Nick was lodged by logs and other debris, wouldn't the force of the water, etc. cause some type of injury to his head and or limbs?

    Or even from a fall........

    If these questions have already been answered or discussed, sorry for repeating them.

  4. #4
    All very good questions Littledeer.

  5. #5
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    I rec'd this email to share with you all:

    Hi Christine,

    I found this link in the Burlington Free Press website and, since it has some interesting pics for the people who never went to Middlebury, I thought you might be interested to share it with the ones at Websleuths:http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/legacy/slideshows/052808nickgarza/index.html
    Last edited by christine2448; 05-30-2008 at 07:18 PM. Reason: request of emailer, to hide personal info

  6. #6
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    I saw these photos yesterday I was going to post them in my photo albums but did not post them in my photo albums becuse of the respect for Natalie. Natalie is very upset with the PHOTOS.

    Natalie was never able to see the aerial photos. Chief Hanley would not let her see them and she was never invited to the press conference when these photos were shown, that's why I was saving them until she saw them. Out of respect they shoud have been put up with her permission. People really need to respect the Mother's wishes. Im sorry if I sound cruel but its the truth.
    There are alot of questions about these photo's.

  7. #7
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    These photos are readily available for anybody to see over the internet aren't they? I in no way mean any disrespect.

  8. #8
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    Yes these photos are for everyone to see, BUT like I said Natalie did not see them till last night, when I sent them to her. Natalie is VERY UPSET. People on this board do not understand what hanley is putting natalie through. Right now I know alot, and cannot repeat them, until further notice.

    My dearest littledeer,
    these are the only words that I have for you . So very well done. So many people think that his death was accidental so many people think the he was a victim of homicide. That is what Natalie believes, that is what I believe. I have so much love and respect for Natalie and I am trying to help her any way that I can. The truth one day will come out.

  9. #9
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    Yes, these photos are on the Burlingtonfreepress website. Thanks for posting this slideshow. It was very informative.

  10. #10
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    I am very sorry that she is upset, OF COURSE SHE IS UPSET, but that does not mean that the discussions here stop...now we do not and cannot know what is going on, we are not there. I can't imagine what she is going through, most of us can't.

    As mentioned many, many times on these boards, we encourage threads for supporting families to be in the MISSING SUPPORT SECTION
    Missing Persons Information and Support
    This Forum is for Missing Person Reports, Information and Family Support


    This section HERE is not a place for families to be reading, however, they can do as they please, but we do not encourage it. We are hear to discuss this case, every aspect of it. We do NOT encourage family members to read here because things can be brought up that are hurtful. We are going to discuss all aspects of the investigation.

    Another thing we encourage is that if posters have information that they cannot share, why bring it up at all?? Just don't mention it. It is frustrating for many posters to hear 'I know, but you don't, and I can't say, just do as I say, because I know, but I can't say'. If posters have info that they can't share with everyone (this happens a lot working so close), just don't mention it, instead of making people wonder. (I have learned this on the way, I too have many times said "just trust me, I have more info". learning that is not a good thing to do)

    I MEAN NO DISRESPECT TO NATALIE in anyway. Her case and cases like her are the reason we are here!!!


  11. #11
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    I did not say that the discussion had to stop here nothing like that at all. why I keep saying that people need to read the articles carfully is cause there are alot of contradictions that are being said. I am her for Nick and Natalie. I did not mean to raise a ruccus over this at all.

  12. #12
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    I am new to these message boards, but have been following the discussion here for some time. I wanted to add a few thoughts because I am a rising college senior who attends a college very similar in many regards to Middlebury as far as standards of admission/academic rigor go, and which is located in upstate New York. First, though, I wanted to mention that, in reference to the questions raised re: injuries and the ruling out of foul play, I am fairly certain that the coroner is capable of determining whether damage to the body occurred before or after death. In other words, and I apologize if I sound brash, any trauma the body underwent when submerged in the river can be differentiated from any suffered before death. It seems they have ruled out the latter, and I agree that the former is certainly a probability.

    Recently, there has been a lot of speculation about what Nick might have been doing walking away from campus alone and on a cold night. A lot of this has centered on the idea of him going to get food somewhere, which, for the most part, sounds to be a good theory. Where I go to school, we do indeed have vending machines, which offer a surprisingly large assortment of things. However, there is also a nearby 24-hour diner that many students choose to go to on a weekend night after parties have finished, etc. It's about a 10 minute walk from the edge of campus and is one that I have made many times on many cold nights, probably inappropriately dressed as far as my mother is concerned. (On a side note re: Nick's lack of jacket: personally, I don't think the fact that he was not wearing a jacket can really lead us to any conclusions about where he was going or what he was doing. I had a perfectly good winter jacket, but refused to wear it for much of my freshman year, preferring, foolishly, a blazer instead, and also preferred wearing clogs rather than winter boots, even though it snows often and heavily in upstate NY. I have since grown wiser, but I know many students who haven't -- especially after even a few drinks, when walking in the cold, crisp night air is often refreshing after hanging out in a warm, possibly crowded dorm room or lounge.)

    Finally, regarding his destination that night: while the food possibility seems logical to me, a college student, who definitely has made that pilgrimage before, I agree that he probably would not have gone alone (no one at my school would). So, I want to return to a topic not touched on in some time: the girl who texted Nick, who Nick placed his final cell phone call to. We know that Nick called her right after leaving her dorm, and that she did not answer. Might it be possible that he was going to ask her if she wanted to go get some food with him, or perhaps just go for a walk to talk about something, or just for the company? I have a feeling that, as was mentioned early on, some romantic gesture was turned down by the girl in question (or maybe some other girl) that night, which was why Nick left so soon after arriving, and why he would call her immediately after exiting the building. Might he have felt unwanted there or had witnessed the girl with someone else, or felt ignored by her, so then attempted to call her to figure out what was going on [maybe he was confused about mixed signals? she had texted him and then ignored him when he arrived?], or to ask her to come for a walk with him to get away from the others, to have some privacy to talk or whatever? Or, maybe, after some sort of rejection, he just needed some time alone. Was his roommate back from break at the time he disappeared? If so, I can certainly understand wanting to go somewhere other than home when one is upset about something -- I loved my freshman year roommate, but sometimes when I was really upset -- ESPECIALLY about some boy -- I needed to be somewhere else, alone, to think things through and be upset without anyone seeing. Might Nick have wanted this? Or, even the roommate WAS still gone, might he have decided not to go back to his room, hoping maybe the girl in question would call him back, deciding to wander around for a bit and think while waiting? My freshman year, I had my heart broken in early December -- and I remember taking long walks by myself (without a jacket of course, as was my custom then) to just think, and sometimes the cold made things even more therapeutic -- but I think the dreariness of the winter also made the heartbreak more painful. Might there be some parallel with Nick's case? Thanks for listening

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by vermontn03 View Post
    I did not say that the discussion had to stop here nothing like that at all. why I keep saying that people need to read the articles carfully is cause there are alot of contradictions that are being said. I am her for Nick and Natalie. I did not mean to raise a ruccus over this at all.
    No rucus...we are all here for the same. I made the comments I did because it seemed you thought I should not post the link of the pictures. I felt by your post you wanted to do it when you were ready, out of respect to Natalie...they were public already, they are posted. I felt I needed to address the issues of her reading here.

    We know you are here for Natalie/Nick, as are we all.

    Let's move on and support Natalie and follow the investigations.

    If you think this thread and discussion is too hard for Natalie to follow please start a thread about this case in the support area as mentioned so that we can support her w/o her having to read or see things that may hurt her that are bound to be dicussed here. IMO.

  14. #14
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    Welcome andsoitgoes!
    I know what you mean about a walk in the cold and dark fitting a despondent mood. Are you thinking he might have flung himself over the bridge?

    Judging from the pictures the bridge itself and the approach seem perfectly safe. Not at all like the impression that was given from LE that one might miss the approach then fall down the embankment. The area is well groomed and obvious where to walk especially for someone whom I assume has been that way before. It was very dark I guess but still your eyes adjust after a while.


    Chilling the scent going up onto the porch of an abandoned house almost like he was being chased……………………

  15. #15
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    Thanks for the welcome! I actually don't think he jumped or otherwise intended to harm himself. I agree that the recently released pictures seem contrary to the description by LE of the area of the creek where Nick's scent was traced, but we have to remember how much different an area looks in the winter months, covered with snow and, of course, ice. Yes, your eyes adjust after a while in the dark, but sometimes ice is difficult to see even in daylight. I have read that it was a moonless night, so visibility, despite eye adjustment, had to have been minimal. If he was walking at a brisk pace, which one might guess he would on a cold night, slipping seems all the more plausible, and regaining balance or grabbing hold of something is made difficult by the disorienting nature of darkness. And, I hate to bring up the drinking again, and I do not think he was "binge drinking" or otherwise acting foolishly, but we have to remember that even a few drinks DOES slow one's reflexes quite dramatically. Thus, if he did slip and fall, his reflexes might have been slightly impaired by whatever amount of alcohol (however small) he consumed. All of these little factors add up -- and, again, I think the seemingly incongruous route itself might be explained (at least in part) by something that happened socially that evening, or maybe even that had been brewing for some time. Not foul play, not even bad intentions -- just a situation that happens, almost by definition, in college, when emotions run so high and small things take on weight that they would not otherwise. I definitely think Natalie is right -- Nick didn't just "wander off". I think the walk he took that night was for a purpose -- to clear his mind, to think, to be alone, to get some air, whatever. I wonder if anyone knows if Nick was fond of taking walks around the campus and its surrounding areas, if it was something he was known to do, did often, etc. I know many people at my school who do so. And finally, one question that has not yet been asked (as far as I know): did Nick know how to swim?

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