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Thread: VT - Nicholas Garza, 19, Middlebury College student, 5 Feb 2008 - #5

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blink34 View Post
    I could be wrong, but I want to say that Josh's Dad may have erred on his hoodie. I recall seeing in an earlier interview or report that his sweatshirt was a "Southpark", not south pole-??
    OT-Welcome back, Blink! hope all is well with you.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    I would say finding out if there was such a person who loaned him a hoodie would be very important! It could mean they were actually the last one to see him alive.
    I completely agree- has it been verified this sweatshirt is Nick's? If no-one saw him in it, especially the last to see him alive there are 2 scenarios:

    1) Nick met up with someone we don't know about.
    2) Someone who is afraid to be tied to Nick's disappearance or worse is the owner of the hoodie and is intentionally misleading his last description.

    Food for thought:

    I did not dig up this knowledge personally, so it is objective, I was told personally by a rep of TES that although sometimes dogs can be VERY helpful, their accuracy for hits, especially on campus, is very low. There are no less than 60 variables, and even then the margin of error is high.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by RR0004 View Post
    OT-Welcome back, Blink! hope all is well with you.
    Thank you so RR- all is well. Missed everybody here, and since I did not have access in Europe, I was kinda hoping that there might have been some breaks while I was away- we will have to keep plugging!!

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blink34 View Post
    Thank you so RR- all is well. Missed everybody here, and since I did not have access in Europe, I was kinda hoping that there might have been some breaks while I was away- we will have to keep plugging!!
    I so wish that as well...but we will, indeed, keep plugging!

  5. #205
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    Isn't it also possible that the hoodie was Nick's and that the student(s) who recalled him wearing the red shirt didn't recall him wearing a blue hoodie because he took it off when he first came in? Or is it accepted as fact that Nick borrowed a blue hoodie? Also, if Nick did borrow a blue hoodie from someone that night, it may or may not have anything to do with what happened to him. It may have been someone innocently lending it to him. Yes, I think it needs to be looked into and determined whether or not there is something to it. I'm just not willing to say that it definitely means something--only that it is possible.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by LionRun View Post
    Isn't it also possible that the hoodie was Nick's and that the student(s) who recalled him wearing the red shirt didn't recall him wearing a blue hoodie because he took it off when he first came in? Or is it accepted as fact that Nick borrowed a blue hoodie? Also, if Nick did borrow a blue hoodie from someone that night, it may or may not have anything to do with what happened to him. It may have been someone innocently lending it to him. Yes, I think it needs to be looked into and determined whether or not there is something to it. I'm just not willing to say that it definitely means something--only that it is possible.

    I think it is most likely that whoever mentioned the red shirt didn't remember or didn't see the hoodie. I think it is highly likely that if the hoodie was a surprise to the police, they have already resolved the question.

    Either way, we'll probably never know anything more about this case. The press has lost interest and there is no reason for the police to release any more info. We can chew on the few details we have until the cows come home, but the reality is that we do not have anywhere near the amount of information that the police have.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by luthersmama View Post
    I think it is most likely that whoever mentioned the red shirt didn't remember or didn't see the hoodie. I think it is highly likely that if the hoodie was a surprise to the police, they have already resolved the question.

    Either way, we'll probably never know anything more about this case. The press has lost interest and there is no reason for the police to release any more info. We can chew on the few details we have until the cows come home, but the reality is that we do not have anywhere near the amount of information that the police have.
    LM-
    I respectfully disagree with your position. I think it is true about alot of cases we have discussed on here, but not Nick's. There are many loose ends, woven together, could change the face of Nick's death in an instant. ie:
    1) There were 5 prank harassment calls made to 5 diff areas of school the day Nick went missing. Additionally, there was defacement and graffitti vandalism as well.
    2) There was an underage drinking citation given the evening Nick went missing where the Univ is refusing to give the students name out. To my knowledge, LE does not have it either. Because this was strictly an MP case, started 6 days after Nick went missing, they are not obligated to.
    3)To my knowledge, LE has knowledge of Nick's phone being used the morning after he went missing, although I have repeatedly asked, no-one has been able to decifer, or post, if that was just an incoming call, or outgoing. That could be crucial.
    4)The hoodie may or may not be significant.
    5) While LE may or may not release additional info- you should also assume the family has additional info that we are not aware of. Mrs. Garza has been adamant that she feels her son is the victim of homicide. I read on another person's blog, who has been mentioned here, that Mrs. garza PAID a portion of the searchers/searches to help find her son- You can't think that woman is going to rest until this is resolved.
    6) Chipped tooth guy- is there a connection?
    7) The autopsy is not complete- there is no tox back yet, this case is still open.
    8) I can tell you from personal experience- when someone you love goes missing, and is found under extremely questionable circumstances, it's almost like the rage takes over for the grief, and renews the need to understand what happened. It's too early, imo, to let off the gas.

  8. #208
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    blink 34,

    Thank you so much for your articulate, informative and detailed post. I agree whole heartedly with your questions and concerns in this case.

    vtgirl

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    Does anyone know if DNA and forensic evidence is collected at the time of autopsy and if being in the water so long could effect the results?

    Has there been any other history harrasment phone calls to the colleges where young men have been found drowned?

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by vtgirl View Post
    Does anyone know if DNA and forensic evidence is collected at the time of autopsy and if being in the water so long could effect the results?

    Has there been any other history harrasment phone calls to the colleges where young men have been found drowned?
    VTG-
    yes, and yes, potentially, depends on the nature of the evidence. DNA evidence belonging to anyone other than the decedant, is near impossible. The only slight "margin" for that would be in the situation of a rape, or follicular evidence possibility depending upon the degredation of the bulb and what exactly you are looking for.

    Don't know about calls at other schools, but keeping in mind the majority of the vics were NOT on campus and/or currently enrolled, I'm not sure if it applies across the board, but good thought to check it out.

  11. #211
    I agree, Blink. There is no way this case is "resolved" in his mother's eyes. She will keep fighting for the truth no matter what LE has to say about it and she should. Too many things left unanswered and even more questions beginning to surface.

    I had not heard anything about his phone. Interesting.

    While the hoodie could have been Nick's...it is something that needs to be clarified. People closest to him would know if he was seen in it before that night. Photos would be great. With all the cell phone photographers out there...it looks like it would definitely be something to check into. Someone may have caught him in the background even.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  12. #212
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    The phone issue for me, is something I cannot figure out why it has not been clarified yet, this is an easy thing to verify. If it was an outgoing call or text, it blows this case wide open, pure and simple. Anybody??

  13. #213
    LE doesn't want this case or any other broken "wide open" and the reason they withold pertinent information from not only the public, but also the family. I have noticed it is a disturbing theme among LE in most of these cases. If they deem it as accidental...they don't want loose ends tripping them up.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blink34 View Post
    The phone issue for me, is something I cannot figure out why it has not been clarified yet, this is an easy thing to verify. If it was an outgoing call or text, it blows this case wide open, pure and simple. Anybody??
    >
    I think you may have your wires crossed on this, I don't beleive there was any activity on his phone after he "disappeared". According to this link :http://www.addisonindependent.com/node/1182 the last activity was an "unanswered call" at 11:05PM on 2/5, the night he disappeared. I looked for more articles, but they are either removed from the website or access here from my work computer is blocked. I could be wrong, but I don't seem to remember any documented activity after that call.

    TBH = Doting Father, Loving & Faithful Husband, Volunteer FF/EMT, Steward of the Land, Patriot, Athiest.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blink34 View Post
    The phone issue for me, is something I cannot figure out why it has not been clarified yet, this is an easy thing to verify. If it was an outgoing call or text, it blows this case wide open, pure and simple. Anybody??


    I'm confident that it has been clarified. It is not the job of the police to satisfy the curiosity of crime forum members. We have no right to expect that all of our questions will be answered. Unless the family releases more info or the press gets interested again, we are not likely to hear alot more about the details. If the PI investigation comes up with something radically different than the police investigation, maybe the case will come back to the surface.

    I know you disagree with me on this, but I honestly can't see any reason to keep zebra-hunting on this one.

  16. #216
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    but I honestly can't see any reason to keep zebra-hunting on this one.
    I don't think any one is "zebra-hunting" or even lion hunting here. Just discussing the case.

    I know on some cases where there is a lot of activity and I wonder why, but if I felt it was unnessary or frustrated because they were, I just wouldn't go there. Lots and lots of other threads to participate in.

  17. #217
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    Good thought SS. You would think if a bunch of kids were together at a party, someone would be taking pics with their cell. Hopefully, LE did ask the students they interviewed if they took any pics.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBugHouse View Post
    >
    I think you may have your wires crossed on this, I don't beleive there was any activity on his phone after he "disappeared". According to this link :http://www.addisonindependent.com/node/1182 the last activity was an "unanswered call" at 11:05PM on 2/5, the night he disappeared. I looked for more articles, but they are either removed from the website or access here from my work computer is blocked. I could be wrong, but I don't seem to remember any documented activity after that call.
    Don't know if this will help, but in addition to the info on the posted link, Hanley-IIRC- was interested in activity through early the next day (Feb. 6th).

    http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/a...27041/0/NEWS01

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by luthersmama View Post
    I'm confident that it has been clarified. It is not the job of the police to satisfy the curiosity of crime forum members. We have no right to expect that all of our questions will be answered. Unless the family releases more info or the press gets interested again, we are not likely to hear alot more about the details. If the PI investigation comes up with something radically different than the police investigation, maybe the case will come back to the surface.

    I know you disagree with me on this, but I honestly can't see any reason to keep zebra-hunting on this one.
    What does "zebra-hunting" mean?

    I have no doubt this case will resurface and continue to resurface until questions are answered for the family. If not, I guess it would mean his family is satisfied with never knowing what actually happened. I honestly doubt this will be the case.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by luthersmama View Post
    I'm confident that it has been clarified. It is not the job of the police to satisfy the curiosity of crime forum members. We have no right to expect that all of our questions will be answered. Unless the family releases more info or the press gets interested again, we are not likely to hear alot more about the details. If the PI investigation comes up with something radically different than the police investigation, maybe the case will come back to the surface.

    I know you disagree with me on this, but I honestly can't see any reason to keep zebra-hunting on this one.
    That very well be true about satisfying our "curiousity"...but they ARE responsible to the family IMO.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    What does "zebra-hunting" mean?

    I have no doubt this case will resurface and continue to resurface until questions are answered for the family. If not, I guess it would mean his family is satisfied with never knowing what actually happened. I honestly doubt this will be the case.

    Unless the press is interested, it will not be in the news. What goes on between the family and the police will only come to light if the family puts it out for public consumption.

    By "zebra-hunting" I mean looking for a complex, conspiracy theory answer when there is a simple answer close at hand.

    There are other posters who are inclined to agree with me that the police did the best they could, that they investigated thoroughly, they are competent to do their jobs and that Nick was found as quickly as the forces of nature allowed.
    Last edited by christine2448; 06-08-2008 at 02:03 PM. Reason: argumentative

  22. #222
    I would hope the family does indeed put it out for public consumption as it should be! No one has more right to know every detail of a death than a parent! Until his mother is confident that everything happened exactly as LE states it did...she is entitled to keep asking questions. They should be able to prove their theory down to the most intricate detail and be willing to give her full disclosure.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  23. #223
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    By "zebra-hunting" I mean looking for a complex, conspiracy theory answer when there is a simple answer close at hand.
    Who's looking for complex and conspiracy theory??

    Asking questions that should be answered IMO is not looking for a complex resolution or conspiracy to Nick's death.

    I'm sure Nick's mother is also seeking answers to the same questions we have been asking. If she should by chance be reading here, maybe some of her questions have been answered by us. Or, maybe some of our questions, she hadn't thought of and will then question who ever needs to be questioned for an answer.

    If your simple answer is accident by being drunk...............then you are writing off a death too easily with very few facts.

  24. #224
    I never said a word about finding Nick or the timing. I haven't said a word about LE not doing their job until that point either. However, they can't simply write this one off as an accidental drowning and call it a day as we have seen with similar cases. Others can have that blind faith in LE if they so choose, but I see absolutely no reason to follow suit when I see them not following through with an investigation. I have no qualms about standing up for the rights of the victim and their families against LE when they decide to take the easiest way out.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by luthersmama View Post
    Unless the press is interested, it will not be in the news. What goes on between the family and the police will only come to light if the family puts it out for public consumption.

    By "zebra-hunting" I mean looking for a complex, conspiracy theory answer when there is a simple answer close at hand.

    There are other posters who are inclined to agree with me that the police did the best they could, that they investigated thoroughly, they are competent to do their jobs and that Nick was found as quickly as the forces of nature allowed.
    I totally agree. I know others who totally agree. Occam's razor. I am the first to always be accused of being a conspiracy theorist but for Nick Garza alas I think we have here a terrible accident . Not a crime.

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