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  1. #271
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    Description

    Quote Originally Posted by georger View Post
    This in a nutshell is it. Marcelled hair, rusy red suit coat vs black, different chin line, fuller face and cranial proportions ...
    Well, descriptions all over the map are about as good as a description of "everyman." At some time in my long past a popular kind of material looked black but, if you looked at it from certain directions or in bright light, it had another color like under the black. I remember red, blue, green.


  2. #272
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    Description

    Quote Originally Posted by hominid View Post
    Well, descriptions all over the map are about as good as a description of "everyman." At some time in my long past a popular kind of material looked black but, if you looked at it from certain directions or in bright light, it had another color like under the black. I remember red, blue, green.
    on the other hand, what color was the uniforms the ladies were wearing for NWA, after a period of time that color could blend into the memory?


  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrShutter45 View Post
    on the other hand, what color was the uniforms the ladies were wearing for NWA, after a period of time that color could blend into the memory?
    Yeah, especially if that was mostly what he was lookin at as he pretended to be reading.

    I checked my old TWA manual. Its illustrations of instruments are only of individual instruments or groups of related instruments. I can get you screen shots of any you'd like.

    Also, if you'd like to buy a copy of the manual, it was cheap. I think it was only a bit over $20. No more than $30. It's about 105 megabytes pdf. Have to be careful not to copy it, but moving the file is OK. Yahoo! (or "google-it" if you must) Mach One Manuals. When there, select aircraft or commercial aircraft, then Boeing 727. Last I was there they had 3 or 4. The ones other than the TWA manual were all later vintage. This manual and the information in an old '63 article that was in "Flight Global" magazine is the most reliable info about what early -100 series 727s were like.


  4. #274
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    Coop description

    Quote Originally Posted by georger View Post
    This in a nutshell is it. Marcelled hair, rusy red suit coat vs black,
    different chin line, fuller face and cranial proportions ...

    It still leaves 2 features unportrayed, according to sources.

    I believe this is the description provided by the gentleman who sat directly across from Cooper. A description which has always conflicted with the consensus description of the crew and ticket agent Hal Williams which the FBI finally settled on early in '72.
    This guy seems very different to me. Maybe FBI should have put out a poster for two or more people, as if he was a gang. Carr mentioned the idea that the people were debriefed separately, but the stews were being good witnesses during the flight and making notes about his discription, and Flo and the chief stew had time alone to discuss things while sitting in the car.


  5. #275
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    Screen shots

    Quote Originally Posted by hominid View Post
    Yeah, especially if that was mostly what he was lookin at as he pretended to be reading.

    I checked my old TWA manual. Its illustrations of instruments are only of individual instruments or groups of related instruments. I can get you screen shots of any you'd like.

    Also, if you'd like to buy a copy of the manual, it was cheap. I think it was only a bit over $20. No more than $30. It's about 105 megabytes pdf. Have to be careful not to copy it, but moving the file is OK. Yahoo! (or "google-it" if you must) Mach One Manuals. When there, select aircraft or commercial aircraft, then Boeing 727. Last I was there they had 3 or 4. The ones other than the TWA manual were all later vintage. This manual and the information in an old '63 article that was in "Flight Global" magazine is the most reliable info about what early -100 series 727s were like.

    Thanks for checking! put some of the 100 up that you have, I'm interested to see how close this sim will be, as they state it's matched!


  6. #276
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    Shaffner

    Quote Originally Posted by hominid View Post
    This guy seems very different to me. Maybe FBI should have put out a poster for two or more people, as if he was a gang. Carr mentioned the idea that the people were debriefed separately, but the stews were being good witnesses during the flight and making notes about his discription, and Flo and the chief stew had time alone to discuss things while sitting in the car.

    then Shaffner had the sketch redone...stating the ones before never really looked like him, all over the board as mentioned


  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrShutter45 View Post
    on the other hand, what color was the uniforms the ladies were wearing for NWA, after a period of time that color could blend into the memory?

    The famous NWA-Delta red. attached
    Attached Images Attached Images


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  9. #278
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by georger View Post
    Hey Niner! Thank you very much. Nice to see you still here. I will be brief
    and make a few other comments then pop out - Im working on something
    I hope will help. I will look forward to your input.
    G/Jerry
    Regarding my input... I always love a mystery - and this sure is! You guys are talking about stuff I don't know about, sounds interesting - but a little over my head!

    Quote Originally Posted by hominid View Post
    off topic:

    I was unsuccessful in trying to see venus transit. Got out my dark prescription sunglasses. Put behind them the little flexishade thing I got when I had my eyes dilated recently. Over-the-glasses shades in front of the prescription shades. Acetylene welding goggle lens in front of that. With all that I was able to look, but the sun was still quite bright and had no magnification.
    Sounds exactly what my Huz was doing - he "thinks" he saw Venus, but like Georger said - it was like a very small dot!

    Quote Originally Posted by MrShutter45 View Post
    then Shaffner had the sketch redone...stating the ones before never really looked like him, all over the board as mentioned
    Yeah, eye witness descriptions aren't too reliable! Everyone sees something the other person doesn't!

    So just waiting for "someone" - FBI? a relative finally talking? anyone!! to solve this mystery!!
    ~~Life isn't about waiting for the storms to pass... It's about learning to dance in the rain!~~
    ~~We are not human beings having a spiritual experience, we are spiritual beings having a human experience!~~
    ~~Veni, Vidi, Velcro! I came, I saw, I stuck around!~~


  10. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrShutter45 View Post
    No, the ones I was finding that were a 100 have new technology on them, new dash, gauges, electronics etc, the website I showed is the add on for my 2004 century of flight sim, I was trying to find the right type of 100 as in a older model with the old gauges etc, the UPS, FedEx planes all have the new upgrades on those planes so that would not be the correct 100 to get, I guess I worded it wrong by saying 100 series in that way.....sorry


    I'll taake a screen shot of the inside of the 200 I have, I like this dash, I think it's the same as the 100? back in a minute


    http://s1224.photobucket.com/albums/...h200series.jpg
    as per Farflung (attached), does your sim have this (data output for it) ?
    Attached Images Attached Images


  11. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niner View Post
    Regarding my input... I always love a mystery - and this sure is! You guys are talking about stuff I don't know about, sounds interesting - but a little over my head!



    Sounds exactly what my Huz was doing - he "thinks" he saw Venus, but like Georger said - it was like a very small dot!



    Yeah, eye witness descriptions aren't too reliable! Everyone sees something the other person doesn't!

    So just waiting for "someone" - FBI? a relative finally talking? anyone!! to solve this mystery!!
    The description has suffered from a convergence of problems which seem to multiply as time passes. The original group of witnesses the FBI used, according to Agent Carr, seemed to have consensus. There was a first wanted poster late in 71, then a second in the Spring of 72 (the one used to this day), but then a third? Then an alleged fourth!? Then others over time from non-official sources and a few individuals who had been on the flight supposedly; one always wonders about the sources of these things? Then a poster from Flo Schafner using a forensic artist from the SF Police Dept (I think) ? Then people pushing candidates attacking the original FBI description. All the while the FBI never claimed their description released included "all" details, which is understandable.

    Maybe some day the Smithsonian or NOVA will issue a comprehensive
    unofficial-offical statement.

    People expected Geof Gray's book would straighten some of these matters out. It didn't,
    which was a surprise and I think a disappointment given all of the hoopla which attended
    the book/symposium/promotional.

    There does seem to be one universal in all of this. You can almost count on a challenge to
    the original FBI description as concomitant with anyone forwarding a candidate, any more.
    That assumes considerable latitude (and failing) in the FBI's original description. It is likewise
    interesting that nobody literally, FBI or otherwise, has ever speculated or announced a
    haplotype for DB Cooper. Carol Abraczinskas on the Kaye Cs Team came as close as anyone
    when she suggested Cooper had to have been from certain regions in Canada, due to his use
    of specific phraseology, according to Ms. Abraczinskas. Whatever genetic info the FBI has,
    Cooper ethnicity remains a mystery ... "olive skin" notwithstanding.

    What do you think?
    Last edited by georger; 06-08-2012 at 01:45 AM.


  12. #281
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    Cabin gauge

    Quote Originally Posted by georger View Post
    as per Farflung (attached), does your sim have this (data output for it) ?

    none of my instruments are working on the engineers panel with my version, I will be loading up the dreamfleet 727 this weekend, the upgrade will have those gauges working.

    Is this in reference to lowering the stairs in flight? if so I can not do it on the models I have now, I don't know if I will be able to with the new software. I tried taking off with the stairs down and the plane refused to lift

    Then I tried a few seconds after take off the plane slammed downward violently might not be a test we can try with the simulator


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  14. #282
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    -100 series instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by MrShutter45 View Post
    Thanks for checking! put some of the 100 up that you have, I'm interested to see how close this sim will be, as they state it's matched!
    I noticed that the discription of that package you are thinking of getting says that using electronic indicators vice the old electromechanical meters/gauges s one of the few things they do that is not like the old 727s. I'd guess it won't look like the old stuff but should still function the same.

    Also, one thing that the '68 vintage TWA -31s had that N467US didn't have is a thing called KIFIS. K for Koffman, the mfr. This thing took several inputs and produced a few items of data. Specifically, it took indicated airspeed, pressure altitude and "total" (indicated) outside air temperature (and maybe mach nbr) and produced true airspeed and true outside air temperature (OAT). If you see true airspeed (TAS) or OAT on a guage, you should ignore these if you're trying to fly like N467US was flown.

    I'll get some screen shots out of may manual and post them. In the mean time here are some flight instrument panels I've verified to be from a -100 series 727. The climb rate and altitude meters are the ones at the FE console. I can post higher resolution if you need it.
    Attached Images Attached Images


  15. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrShutter45 View Post
    ....Is this in reference to lowering the stairs in flight? if so I can not do it on the models I have now, I don't know if I will be able to with the new software. I tried taking off with the stairs down and the plane refused to lift.

    Then I tried a few seconds after take off the plane slammed downward violently might not be a test we can try with the simulator
    Should the software allow you to do things other than what the flight crew can do? It should take someone "in back" to lower the stairs. Slamming downward might be realistic. After the hijacking modifications to the stair system automatically applied hydraulic power to the stair if the control handle was set to "open." Quickly and fully dropping the stair might pitch the tail up dramatically. This is part of the danger that NWA wanted to avoid by giving flight 305 a special procedure for dropping the stair. The other major danger would have been the stair locked all the way down when they wanted to land but didn't know if the guy was still back there ready to blow them up.


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  17. #284
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    Flight manual

    Quote Originally Posted by hominid View Post
    I noticed that the discription of that package you are thinking of getting says that using electronic indicators vice the old electromechanical meters/gauges s one of the few things they do that is not like the old 727s. I'd guess it won't look like the old stuff but should still function the same.

    Also, one thing that the '68 vintage TWA -31s had that N467US didn't have is a thing called KIFIS. K for Koffman, the mfr. This thing took several inputs and produced a few items of data. Specifically, it took indicated airspeed, pressure altitude and "total" (indicated) outside air temperature (and maybe mach nbr) and produced true airspeed and true outside air temperature (OAT). If you see true airspeed (TAS) or OAT on a guage, you should ignore these if you're trying to fly like N467US was flown.

    I'll get some screen shots out of may manual and post them. In the mean time here are some flight instrument panels I've verified to be from a -100 series 727. The climb rate and altitude meters are the ones at the FE console. I can post higher resolution if you need it.
    Nice pics, I saved them for reference, here is the manual that comes with the software, it give very good details on the instrument panel, I would like you input on this software and panel.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/37257567/727-Manual


  18. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrShutter45 View Post
    Nice pics, I saved them for reference, here is the manual that comes with the software, it give very good details on the instrument panel, I would like you input on this software and panel.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/37257567/727-Manual
    I'll take a look. Later....


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