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  1. #1
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    "5 reasons why mothers kill their children" Patsy Ramsey vs. Andrea Yates

    A couple of weeks ago I was watching a document on A & E about mothers who kill their children and in the document it said there are 5 reason why a mother kills her child:

    1.Altruistic- One who thinks she is helping her child by killing them.
    2. Unwanted Child- One who no longer wants to care for her child
    3. Spousal Revenge-One that kill out of spite towards her spouse.
    4. Chaotic- One who suffers from a chaotic episode with no compressible motive.
    5. Maltreatment- Battered Child's syndrome

    They showed a tape of Andrea Yates, she said this is the reason why she kill her children:
    Questioner: Why did you take your childrens's lives?
    Andrea: They were in their innocent years and God would have taken them up...to Heaven
    Questioner: And if you had not taken their lives what would have happned to them?
    Andrea: They would have kept stumbling
    Questioner: And where would they have gone?
    Andrea: .....To Hell....
    When she said that, that made me think of Patsy Ramsey and wonder if she would have fallen under the same category as Andrea Yates (Altruistic Mother) if she was convicted of killing JonBenet.
    {Pasty vs. Andrea Yates}
    A & E said Andrea Yates went by the Bible and when she killed her kids she called her husband and said " It's Time" referring to the Bible ritual for the coming of the end of the world.
    Patsy Ramsey went by the Bible and when she seen JonBenet's body lying on the floor the first thing she shouted was "'Jesus, you raised Lazarus from the dead, please raise my baby!" If you think about Patsy words, Patsy could have been asking Jesus to "raise JonBenet up to heaven and take care of her."
    Andrea Yates believed that if she killed her children while they were in their innocent years God would take them up to Heaven.
    Patsy Ramsey probably believed the same thing, if she killed JonBenet on Christmas night while JonBenet was in her innocent years that would be JonBenet's ticket into Heaven.
    Aunt Pam: JonBenet why don't you put your shoes on? JonBenet: Because I want to feel the rhythm of the earth under my feet.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanny View Post
    A couple of weeks ago I was watching a document on A & E about mothers who kill their children and in the document it said there are 5 reason why a mother kills her child:

    1.Altruistic- One who thinks she is helping her child by killing them.
    2. Unwanted Child- One who no longer wants to care for her child
    3. Spousal Revenge-One that kill out of spite towards her spouse.
    4. Chaotic- One who suffers from a chaotic episode with no compressible motive.
    5. Maltreatment- Battered Child's syndrome

    They showed a tape of Andrea Yates, she said this is the reason why she kill her children:
    Questioner: Why did you take your childrens's lives?
    Andrea: They were in their innocent years and God would have taken them up...to Heaven
    Questioner: And if you had not taken their lives what would have happned to them?
    Andrea: They would have kept stumbling
    Questioner: And where would they have gone?
    Andrea: .....To Hell....
    When she said that, that made me think of Patsy Ramsey and wonder if she would have fallen under the same category as Andrea Yates (Altruistic Mother) if she was convicted of killing JonBenet.
    {Pasty vs. Andrea Yates}
    A & E said Andrea Yates went by the Bible and when she killed her kids she called her husband and said " It's Time" referring to the Bible ritual for the coming of the end of the world.
    Patsy Ramsey went by the Bible and when she seen JonBenet's body lying on the floor the first thing she shouted was "'Jesus, you raised Lazarus from the dead, please raise my baby!" If you think about Patsy words, Patsy could have been asking Jesus to "raise JonBenet up to heaven and take care of her."
    Andrea Yates believed that if she killed her children while they were in their innocent years God would take them up to Heaven.
    Patsy Ramsey probably believed the same thing, if she killed JonBenet on Christmas night while JonBenet was in her innocent years that would be JonBenet's ticket into Heaven.
    Burke was also in his "innocent years" ....so why didn't she kill him too??

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ames View Post
    Burke was also in his "innocent years" ....so why didn't she kill him too??
    Because Patsy was more closer to JonBenet, she tried to make JonBenet be her, ( from the pageants, to the pageant outfits, to the song they sang together when they traveled to competitions, "Gypsy," a musical and movie about a mother obsessed with making her daughter a star, it sung "Wherever we go, whatever we do, we're gonna get through it together," ) Patsy was scared to die of Cancer but all of a sudden once JonBenet died she started saying " I live for that moment when I can meet JonBenet on the other side."
    Aunt Pam: JonBenet why don't you put your shoes on? JonBenet: Because I want to feel the rhythm of the earth under my feet.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanny View Post
    A couple of weeks ago I was watching a document on A & E about mothers who kill their children and in the document it said there are 5 reason why a mother kills her child:

    1.Altruistic- One who thinks she is helping her child by killing them.
    2. Unwanted Child- One who no longer wants to care for her child
    3. Spousal Revenge-One that kill out of spite towards her spouse.
    4. Chaotic- One who suffers from a chaotic episode with no compressible motive.
    5. Maltreatment- Battered Child's syndrome

    They showed a tape of Andrea Yates, she said this is the reason why she kill her children:
    Questioner: Why did you take your childrens's lives?
    Andrea: They were in their innocent years and God would have taken them up...to Heaven
    Questioner: And if you had not taken their lives what would have happned to them?
    Andrea: They would have kept stumbling
    Questioner: And where would they have gone?
    Andrea: .....To Hell....
    When she said that, that made me think of Patsy Ramsey and wonder if she would have fallen under the same category as Andrea Yates (Altruistic Mother) if she was convicted of killing JonBenet.
    {Pasty vs. Andrea Yates}
    A & E said Andrea Yates went by the Bible and when she killed her kids she called her husband and said " It's Time" referring to the Bible ritual for the coming of the end of the world.
    Patsy Ramsey went by the Bible and when she seen JonBenet's body lying on the floor the first thing she shouted was "'Jesus, you raised Lazarus from the dead, please raise my baby!" If you think about Patsy words, Patsy could have been asking Jesus to "raise JonBenet up to heaven and take care of her."
    Andrea Yates believed that if she killed her children while they were in their innocent years God would take them up to Heaven.
    Patsy Ramsey probably believed the same thing, if she killed JonBenet on Christmas night while JonBenet was in her innocent years that would be JonBenet's ticket into Heaven.
    I tend to think Patsy just lost it and had had it with JB,once and for all.
    And as far as the Lazarus comment...I think she said it to make it look like she didn't really want JB dead..to save her own butt.Plus she was always into the dramatic performances,and I think that just went along nicely with what she needed at the time.(much like the Hollywood-ized RN).
    But you did make some good points,so I am not necessarily disagreeing with you.Good insight

    Only thing I would add is,if JB were being molested,could that have added an alruistic (i.e.-this is not going to stop, so she would be better off dead?)..or perhaps spousal revenge.. motive?
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanny View Post
    Because Patsy was more closer to JonBenet, she tried to make JonBenet be her, ( from the pageants, to the pageant outfits, to the song they sang together when they traveled to competitions, "Gypsy," a musical and movie about a mother obsessed with making her daughter a star, it sung "Wherever we go, whatever we do, we're gonna get through it together," ) Patsy was scared to die of Cancer but all of a sudden once JonBenet died she started saying " I live for that moment when I can meet JonBenet on the other side."
    on that note I have to wonder if Patsy subconsciously was killing a part of herself she didn't like,which she saw in JB.(If she had been abused herself as a child or teen,that would be all the more likely).I think she saw her as part of herself,as she described in DOI...like a right arm.And as the bible says,'if thine arm offends thee,then cut it off!'
    I realize you are saying something entirely different though,and I think that's good insight as well.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  6. #6
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    To me, it looks like #4- a chaotic episode.

    PR may have had, on either a subconscious or conscious level, fears about her own death and not wanting to leave JBR behind. In having JBR predecease her, she doesn't have to worry about what will happen to her daughter after her mommy dies. Possibly she WAS worried about JBR being sexually abused. Certainly Nedra would have continued her push to have her granddaughter wear the Miss America crown.
    But these thoughts are simply trying make a psychological problem fit the crime.
    I really feel that whatever emotional, physical or psychological problems PR had, that night- that crime- was the result of a chaotic episode.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    To me, it looks like #4- a chaotic episode.

    PR may have had, on either a subconscious or conscious level, fears about her own death and not wanting to leave JBR behind. In having JBR predecease her, she doesn't have to worry about what will happen to her daughter after her mommy dies. Possibly she WAS worried about JBR being sexually abused. Certainly Nedra would have continued her push to have her granddaughter wear the Miss America crown.
    But these thoughts are simply trying make a psychological problem fit the crime.
    I really feel that whatever emotional, physical or psychological problems PR had, that night- that crime- was the result of a chaotic episode.

    That I agree with. Chaotic episode is an understatement. But how would you describe momentary beserk

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanny View Post
    A couple of weeks ago I was watching a document on A & E about mothers who kill their children and in the document it said there are 5 reason why a mother kills her child:

    1.Altruistic- One who thinks she is helping her child by killing them.
    2. Unwanted Child- One who no longer wants to care for her child
    3. Spousal Revenge-One that kill out of spite towards her spouse.
    4. Chaotic- One who suffers from a chaotic episode with no compressible motive.
    5. Maltreatment- Battered Child's syndrome

    They showed a tape of Andrea Yates, she said this is the reason why she kill her children:
    Questioner: Why did you take your childrens's lives?
    Andrea: They were in their innocent years and God would have taken them up...to Heaven
    Questioner: And if you had not taken their lives what would have happned to them?
    Andrea: They would have kept stumbling
    Questioner: And where would they have gone?
    Andrea: .....To Hell....
    When she said that, that made me think of Patsy Ramsey and wonder if she would have fallen under the same category as Andrea Yates (Altruistic Mother) if she was convicted of killing JonBenet.
    {Pasty vs. Andrea Yates}
    A & E said Andrea Yates went by the Bible and when she killed her kids she called her husband and said " It's Time" referring to the Bible ritual for the coming of the end of the world.
    Patsy Ramsey went by the Bible and when she seen JonBenet's body lying on the floor the first thing she shouted was "'Jesus, you raised Lazarus from the dead, please raise my baby!" If you think about Patsy words, Patsy could have been asking Jesus to "raise JonBenet up to heaven and take care of her."
    Andrea Yates believed that if she killed her children while they were in their innocent years God would take them up to Heaven.
    Patsy Ramsey probably believed the same thing, if she killed JonBenet on Christmas night while JonBenet was in her innocent years that would be JonBenet's ticket into Heaven.
    Shanny,
    I doubt Patsy falls into any of these categories, the chaotic episode just seems like a catch-all section aka dont know? There have been numerous theories linking JonBenet's death biblically e.g. Saved By The Cross yielded up a profile, by Dale Yeager, for the investigators, outlining Patsy as being influenced by the charismatic/ penetecostal movement during her bout with cancer. Specifically books read by Patsy with authors such as Osteen, Hickey, Barnhill et-al, offer a mystical approach where god speaks directly to the person. So the themes of cords/bindings, SBTC, and Sacrifice play the main role in explaining JonBenet's death. e.g.

    Psalm 118:27b Old Testament :-
    The Lord is our God, Who has shown and given us light. Decorate the festival with leafy boughs and bind the sacrifices to be offered with thick cords to the horns of the alter
    Other aproaches have Patsy with multiple personalities, schitzophrenic, Bi-Polar etc.



    .

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    To me, it looks like #4- a chaotic episode.

    .
    Thats how I feel.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rino View Post
    Thats how I feel.
    Certainly was chaotic and there was definitely an episode. So I guess we could lump the two together.

    She lost it that night and killed her child and it was over in seconds.

    She certainly pulled herself together quickly though - to defend herself.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778 View Post
    Only thing I would add is,if JB were being molested,could that have added an alruistic (i.e.-this is not going to stop, so she would be better off dead?)..or perhaps spousal revenge.. motive?
    I thought about the Spousal revenge-One that kill out of spite towards her spouse, also
    I was thinking of Marilyn Lemak who killed her kids (Thomas, 3, Emily, 6, and Nicholas, 7 ) by feeding them peanut butter sandwiches laced with antidepressants to "get back" at her husband because he was having an affair with another woman.
    From Patsy's point of view she probably thought John was having an affair, when she was sick with cancer she had sworn she would not die and leave her family behind because she didn't want "A certain blonde b**ch down the street to steal her husband."
    She could have killed JonBenet to "get back" at John for cheating on her.
    Or John could have been molesting JonBenet and Patsy seen it as "You took my husband away from me, now I'm going to take your life away from you."
    Aunt Pam: JonBenet why don't you put your shoes on? JonBenet: Because I want to feel the rhythm of the earth under my feet.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanny View Post
    I thought about the Spousal revenge-One that kill out of spite towards her spouse, also
    I was thinking of Marilyn Lemak who killed her kids (Thomas, 3, Emily, 6, and Nicholas, 7 ) by feeding them peanut butter sandwiches laced with antidepressants to "get back" at her husband because he was having an affair with another woman.
    From Patsy's point of view she probably thought John was having an affair, when she was sick with cancer she had sworn she would not die and leave her family behind because she didn't want "A certain blonde b**ch down the street to steal her husband."
    She could have killed JonBenet to "get back" at John for cheating on her.
    Or John could have been molesting JonBenet and Patsy seen it as "You took my husband away from me, now I'm going to take your life away from you."
    I've always thought perhaps there was more to it than just toilet rage...maybe that was enough,but from the looks of that hole in her head,(and I know a child's skull isn't as hard as an adults),still,it looks like a wound inflicted with intent to kill.And my best guess is still the flashlight.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778 View Post
    I've always thought perhaps there was more to it than just toilet rage...maybe that was enough,but from the looks of that hole in her head,(and I know a child's skull isn't as hard as an adults),still,it looks like a wound inflicted with intent to kill.And my best guess is still the flashlight.
    I see it as murderous rage without intent. Call it blind fury whatever I keep going back to the bipolar thing as I they simply go off POW later when they have me back to their level of reality really have this I didnt mean to do it and it was their fault attitudes.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778 View Post
    but from the looks of that hole in her head,(and I know a child's skull isn't as hard as an adults),still,it looks like a wound inflicted with intent to kill.And my best guess is still the flashlight.
    I kind of had doubts about the flashlight theory
    I've always wondered could someone have taken JonBenet down to the basement, strangled her from behind and as she was dying she slumped over a cracked her head on the basement concrete floor?
    Aunt Pam: JonBenet why don't you put your shoes on? JonBenet: Because I want to feel the rhythm of the earth under my feet.

  15. #15
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    I think Patsy was all about pretense and appearing perfect. Not being perfect ...just projecting that image. As JonBenet had gotten older she wasn't as compliant as Patsy was used to. Little girls about that age begin talking back, misbehaving. Lump that in with her less than perfect toilet issues it was just too much! Patsy had so much to do and little to no help from John. I think she was struck with the flashlight in a moment of blind rage and Patsy thinking she was already dead ...planned yet another facade and went quickly to work making it appear as a kidnapping. Using her flair for the dramatic she went to work writing the ransom note. To me it's obvious a woman wrote it.

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