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  1. #1

    The Weapons

    We do know two guns were used. We also know they were different calibur weapons. One was high-powered. The ballistics on the shell casings are being done and while we won't have the results forthcoming nor the exact weapons used...we can list the weapons and ammo we believe could have been involved.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  2. #2
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    Oct 2007
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    Posted by cloudajo:

    Sorry, I know things have been posted about the possible guns used. Can someone re-cap what we know other than 2 guns used and shell casing found? I don't know much about guns, but was reading again about the boys who were down at the bridge shooting that Sunday and who had a shotgun. Not sure what kind of shotgun. Rosser said there is nothing to indicate they are suspects. But I want to know more about that.
    ----------------------------------------

    Shotgun:



    • Also known as a fowling piece or scattergun
    · Come in wide variety, including breech loading double barreled shotguns, pump-action, bolt-action, lever-action, and semi-automatic models
    · Typical use is against small and/or fast moving targets
    · The spreading of the shot allows the user to point the shotgun close to the target rather than having to aim precisely as in the case of a single projectile
    · Disadvantages of shot are limited range and limited penetration of the shot
    · Advantages are enormous stopping power at short range, more than nearly all handguns and comparible to most rifle cartridges
    · Wide spread of shot produced makes it easier to aim and to be used by inexperienced marksmen
    · Multiple wound channels of a defensive load are far more likely to produce a disabling wound than a rifle or handgun

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun

  3. #3
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    Posted by sweetheart29:

    Bullet casings and shell casings are interchangeably words.

    Bullet
    A generally cylindrical shaped projectile that travels through the air after being fired from a firearm. This is only one component of a cartridge, which is a single piece of ammunition.

    Shotshell*
    A self-contained round of ammunition consisting of a case of brass head, a primer, a powder charge, wads, and a load of shot, being close by means of a crimp. Early shotshell cases were made of brass and were reloaded many times by the shooter. Paper hulls with a brass head replaced the brass cases and the paper hulls have now been replaced by plastic hulls with brass heads.

    Shell Casing
    A hollow, bottle or drinking glass shaped, piece of metal that is closed on one end except for a small hole which holds a primer. The open end holds the bullet. The hollow portion holds the powder. Together the assembled unit is called a car
    cartridge.

    http://www.boomershoot.org/general/GunDict.htm link to where I got this information from.

  4. #4
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    Jul 2007
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    Here is some iformation on the diffrent kind of shell that a shotgun uses. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birdshot#Birdshot
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_slug

    Just a little more about diffrent guns. http://forjournalists.com/cookbook/i..._assault_rifle

  5. #5
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    Semiautomatic guns are the weapon of choice in mass shootings

    Semiautomatic guns are the weapon of choice in mass shootings -- including Virginia Tech -- and police killings. Firing one shot per trigger pull, they have greater ammunition capacity and can be quickly and easily reloaded. Semiautomatic handguns, also known as pistols, are the most common type of handgun manufactured in America, representing 73 percent of the 1,403,329 handguns manufactured in the United States in 2006 (the last year for which figures are available). In contrast, revolvers hold only five to six ammunition rounds, fire more slowly, take time to reload, and represent only 27 percent of the handguns manufactured in 2006.
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/200...uffpost/109589
    If you're not part of the solution,
    you're part of the problem.

    ~Eldridge Cleaver ~



  6. #6
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    Shell Casings:

    Are they so unique to each gun that LE would know (although haven't released) what type of bullets (gun) were used to kill the girls?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littledeer View Post
    Shell Casings:

    Are they so unique to each gun that LE would know (although haven't released) what type of bullets (gun) were used to kill the girls?
    It has been reported that the OSBI DOES KNOW the guns used, they just haven't released that info to the public. Probably in the hope that the killer(s) won't dump both the guns??

    I think the guns and the truck are both long-gone. Does the OSBI already know the truck was stolen? Is that why no details have been released, so as not to get the real owner involved or make him/her a target?

    I think the OSBI knows a TON of things that we aren't being told - they are putting this murder together step-by-step and something tells me there is a reason they are holding back so much - what are they afraid the perp(s) might do if they get pushed or feel LE is getting close? Do they feel (for some reason) that a number of innocent people might get injured or worse if they start showing their hand before the killer(s) are truly cornered?? It does seem strange to ME that this POI has just disappeared, along with the truck, despite the nationwide manhunt. The two together should be a dead give-away - I don't think the truck belongs to the POI and as one NA spokesperson said - there must be 10,000 men in Oklahoma alone who match that sketch (generally anyway).Without the truck it's just another traditional NA man - out of many thousands all over Oklahoma (and AZ, NV, NM, CA, WA, OR, FL, SD, ND et al).

    It's going to be a tough manhunt without more info given to the public to send them in one direction. They definitely need to discuss a possible motive and need to be working the profile I know they have developed in a different way....unless they are already on a target and are developing evidence and working out a way to safely aprehend...I HOPE!!! This must not be another GS Murder Case!

    My Opinion
    If you're not part of the solution,
    you're part of the problem.

    ~Eldridge Cleaver ~



  8. #8
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    Apr 2004
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    Yes they would

    Quote Originally Posted by Littledeer View Post
    Shell Casings:

    Are they so unique to each gun that LE would know (although haven't released) what type of bullets (gun) were used to kill the girls?
    Hi,

    All firearms & ammunition can be traced back to a source. I'll try to keep it short but enough to let you know why it's so important to Law Enforcement.

    The mechanical actions of any firearms will leave unique markers on the type of evidence being looked at. The caliber would be the very first thing known if the casings are left behind. It will also tell the L.E. what type of firearm was likely used. If they are left behind, they almost assuredly come from an automatic or semi-automatic weapon. These types of firearms use part of the propellant gases to actually work the weapons mechanism to eject the spent shell & then chamber the next round. This would be true for a handgun or a long arm (rifle, shotgun, etc.) in both the auto & semi-auto class. It would be true for any long arm that does not use the gases for an automatic ejection & chambering too. A lever action rifle would have to be worked manually to eject the last shell & chamber the new round. Same for a bolt action. Most of these types would leave the casings behind in the case of multiple rounds being fired at a short stretch of time. If they fire it just once & don't work the mechanism, the empty shell goes with them & the weapon. Shotguns come in all types of variations. You have single shot, double barrel, and bolt, semi-auto & so on. They would normally leave the shell casings except for the single shot & the double barrel. You would have to manually open the mechanisms on both, pull out the spent shell & then reload. A revolver (handgun) that normally holds six shells will NOT eject the casings. The action just turns the next round in place & all the casings remain in the weapon until manually ejected. Normally, a shooter fires as many rounds as possible & then books it. They would carry the casings away with them in a revolver's mechanism. All casings can be picked up by the shooter(s), remember that. The mechanisms on all firearms will leave a unique ejection imprint on the spent shell. This can be traced & matched to the weapon that was actually used. The shell itself will have a unique imprint from the firing pin from the actual firearm. This can be traced & matched too. Rifling is a method where there are lands & grooves formed in the making of the firearm's barrel. Just remember a James Bond movie, it shows lands & grooves very well at the beginning of the film's opening sequence. These actually start a long arm's or handgun's bullet twisting to stabilize it in flight. Each weapon will leave a very unique marking on the bullet & that is unique as a fingerprint. In autopsy, they would recover the spent slugs & keep them as evidence. If they have not been too deformed in the shooting process, these can be matched to a recovered weapon. L.E. would just send both to forensics for testing. They would fire the weapon in a water tank, recover the slugs & then microscopically check the lands & grooves on the evidence slug against the test slugs. They will tell if it matches the weapon or not just like a fingerprint. With a shotgun, you are in a different field. The shot travels down the barrel in a plastic wad cup to protect the shot. When the shot leaves the barrel, the wad cup falls away. The autopsy will give them an idea on what type of gauge & how far away was the shot. There are different size shot & they will spread per distance traveled. If they leave the spent shells behind, they can be matched due to markings on the brass from ejection & the firing pin on the firing cap. If they use rifled slugs or rifled barrels, you are back in the same park of matching a spent slug to a specific weapon. Not as easy as a handgun or rifle but it can be done. L.E. can also use the spent slugs to match recovered ammunition from a shooter. Obviously the caliber has to match but they can also check the spent slugs’ chemical make up to the recovered ammunition. They can get very specific on when & where the ammo was produced. The spent shells & the ammo have to match as far as the manufacturer obviously.

    Hopefully that is not too long, but enough info. Feel free to ask any questions. If I think of anything else, I'll post it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    We do know two guns were used. We also know they were different calibur weapons. One was high-powered. The ballistics on the shell casings are being done and while we won't have the results forthcoming nor the exact weapons used...we can list the weapons and ammo we believe could have been involved.
    Have they said "high powered" or "high velocity"? To me, "high powered" could mean a shotgun or a large caliber weapon where the wound is large & destructive. At close range? "High Velocity" would mean to me a rifle used for large game hunting where distance is a factor. The wounds could be large too, but I would believe that the round would have passed through both girls & not found during autopsy. It still nags at me that this could be just one shooter. Did he use a shotgun first & then a handgun to the head as a sure kill second shot? It's reported that they were both shot from the front. Very easily done in many scenarios. A person could have been carrying a handgun as a sidearm & a shotgun. Very easy to be quick with the shotgun & then walk up with the handgun for a last shot. I wonder how many times do they mean by "multiple". It sounds to me that the bullets have been found during autopsy and/or, the spent casings remained at the site. It would be hard to determine caliber size by the wound size alone. They could get a good idea but I feel they recovered the bullets from the bodies. That would be a definite instead of speculation.



    The horrible question is WHY?
    Last edited by JP76ER; 06-30-2008 at 10:23 PM. Reason: To add:

  10. #10
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    Maybe a high powered assault rifle?




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