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  1. #136
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    Was this shot at close range or at a distance?


  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patience View Post
    Is that Badillo? Opinions here have discounted Badillo, but I have to tell you that I would not clear him yet.


    http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/alert/badillo_jg.htm
    There is a sentence in there that he may be trying to disguise his appearance by growing his hair long. How long would it grow in three years?


  3. #138
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    I believe long enough to pull back into a ponytail. I am sure that the authorities have him on their list of person's of interest. I would not clear him anyway, based just on the sketch.

    But then again, I wonder if the sketch is bogus, coming from sources that are not credible. I don't want to have tunnel vision so I want to consider all possibilities


  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleph View Post
    I have a question for those who may have hunting and/or military experience. (I don't!)

    The shot under the chin, as I understand was done to the girls in this case -- this strikes me as a technique that someone might be trained to do, in order to make sure that their victim won't survive. It certainly seems like it was applied "systematically" and purposefully in this case. It's one thing that sticks out to me.

    Is this kind of shot just common practice in hunting or could this be a more specialized technique that one might learn in the military? Does it suggest a professional hit?
    Again referencing Mark Furhman, shots to the chest first, then a shot to the head to insure the person does not survive. Furhman mentioned training as a possibility.

    IMO it was a systematic killing for whatever reason.


  5. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Beyond Belief View Post
    Was this shot at close range or at a distance?
    In order to put a shot under the chin and have it come out the top, one would have to be in very close range, imo. For them to be standing on a vehicle or at a distance, it would have made this shot almost impossible.

    Don't underestimate someone else knowing the way to do an execution-style killing. While LE/military background would know...so do the gangbangers, drug dealers, and gun runners.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.


  6. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Patience View Post
    I believe long enough to pull back into a ponytail. I am sure that the authorities have him on their list of person's of interest. I would not clear him anyway, based just on the sketch.

    But then again, I wonder if the sketch is bogus, coming from sources that are not credible. I don't want to have tunnel vision so I want to consider all possibilities
    LE is not going to release a sketch that could be "bogus". They have repeatedly mentioned the witnesses are credible and I am sure they have checked out their stories, backgrounds, etc. There is corroborating evidence at the scene to back them up.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.


  7. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Patience View Post
    Is that Badillo? Opinions here have discounted Badillo, but I have to tell you that I would not clear him yet.


    http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/alert/badillo_jg.htm
    That isn't Badillo, that is Torres. He was on AMW last night in connection with a driveby shooting killing a 10 yo boy.

    The witnesses would know the distinct differences of NA and Hispanic as Oklahoma's population has many of both. The sketch is definitely a NA male.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.


  8. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Trino View Post
    Again referencing Mark Furhman, shots to the chest first, then a shot to the head to insure the person does not survive. Furhman mentioned training as a possibility.

    IMO it was a systematic killing for whatever reason.
    I love Mark F., but I keep going back to what Skyla's grandmother remarked the shot to the head was first and then they unloaded on them after they were dead. I don't think she arrived at this conclusion alone and the family must know more than is being released to the media. (I am also certain that LE did not want her telling that on Greta either!)

    The autopsy would reveal which shots were first and the position of the bodies when the subsequent shots were fired. OSBI's Jessica Brown said they know the trajectory. (By the way, this is where some people may have gotten off-track. Jessica did not insinuate the shots came from above at all...it was NG that once agained tossed in her two cents to arrive at that one.)
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.


  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    LE is not going to release a sketch that could be "bogus". They have repeatedly mentioned the witnesses are credible and I am sure they have checked out their stories, backgrounds, etc. There is corroborating evidence at the scene to back them up.
    SS, what corroborating evidence is that?

    IMOO, there is room for questioning the credibility of the witnesses who came forward about the POI. I believe the OSBI was obligated to release the sketch even if they themselves had some doubts about the witnesses who gave the description (not saying they did but itís a possibility, see Brownís comment below). Iíve only heard them say the male witness who saw the girls walking (alive) was ďvery credible.Ē Iíve never heard the OSBI specifically state that about the witnesses who saw the POI (but I could be mistaken). Iím still leaving it open as a possibility for now.
    ================
    Officer Willingham made a general comment - he said officers go with the best information available. "It's up to the individual's perception," Willingham said. "We can't discount a witness because we're not sure if what they're saying is true."

    Brown said the forensic artist who made the sketch has 30 years of experience. She said not releasing the sketch would have been criticized and that the man is not a suspect.

    http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080628_11_A4_spancl9259


  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudajo View Post
    SS, what corroborating evidence is that?

    IMOO, there is room for questioning the credibility of the witnesses who came forward about the POI. I believe the OSBI was obligated to release the sketch even if they themselves had some doubts about the witnesses who gave the description (not saying they did but itís a possibility, see Brownís comment below). Iíve only heard them say the male witness who saw the girls walking (alive) was ďvery credible.Ē Iíve never heard the OSBI specifically state that about the witnesses who saw the POI (but I could be mistaken). Iím still leaving it open as a possibility for now.
    ================
    Officer Willingham made a general comment - he said officers go with the best information available. "It's up to the individual's perception," Willingham said. "We can't discount a witness because we're not sure if what they're saying is true."

    Brown said the forensic artist who made the sketch has 30 years of experience. She said not releasing the sketch would have been criticized and that the man is not a suspect.

    http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080628_11_A4_spancl9259
    It has been mentioned more than once that lie detector tests have been administered concerning this case. I truly think LE have a sixth sense on what is true and what is made up. I do believe this POI exists and was there the very day and time this happened.

    Without him this case seems to be in limbo so imo he IS the link. In little over a week it will be a month since this crime happened and what are the police still missing? This man who cant be found and imo someone is hiding him out and whomever may have been with him at the time.

    imoo
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina


  11. #146
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    The question would be has LE completely checked out the people who said they drove by the POI. Because if the POI isn't real then they are most likely the shooters or are involved somehow.

    Tire tracks, u-turn, and boot prints could all belong to them.

    What better way to cover a crime. You are local and you know people probably saw you driving in the area so you come forward, after a while, and say you drove by that area and you saw somebody there.

    You give a generic part Indian, part white physical description and a generic white Chevy or Ford truck vehicle description.

    Or.

    The POI may actually be a real person but wasn't on that road that day. So even if somebody reports the guy, LE may have checked him out and discovered he wasn't in the area that day. They conclude he just resembles the POI. The POI lead has just become a dead end.


  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert18 View Post
    The question would be has LE completely checked out the people who said they drove by the POI. Because if the POI isn't real then they are most likely the shooters or are involved somehow.

    Tire tracks, u-turn, and boot prints could all belong to them.

    What better way to cover a crime. You are local and you know people probably saw you driving in the area so you come forward, after a while, and say you drove by that area and you saw somebody there.

    You give a generic part Indian, part white physical description and a generic white Chevy or Ford truck vehicle description.

    Or.

    The POI may actually be a real person but wasn't on that road that day. So even if somebody reports the guy, LE may have checked him out and discovered he wasn't in the area that day. They conclude he just resembles the POI. The POI lead has just become a dead end.

    I don't think it is some vast conspiracy among the "murderers". I don't believe the police are that dumb if the witnesses that came in where connected to each other in any way.

    It seems there are several witnesses and I think it highly unlikely that they are all lying.

    The composite is not generic to me. It is one of the most detailed composites that I have seen lately. It shows me also that the other witnesses than the initial one thinks the sketch looks like the POI.

    imoo
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina


  13. #148
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    Badillo seems too short - 5-6" to 5-9" and too heavy. He also looks distinctly Hispanic to me. The sketch artist is NA himself, I am sure he would have determined whether the POI was Hispanic rather than Native American. Badillo's hair appears rather wavy - like grown out it might get rather frizzy and "big" given the humidity in OK summers..if he had been growing his hair for the full 3 years since the last photo it might be shoulder length - certainly not to the small of his back. And it would appear "curly" - not a NA trait.

    The sketch artist here becomes important - in his interviewing and his techniques. I think Pratt (the artist) would have quickly determined whether the POI was Hispanic rather than NA..and as someone said, people in OK certainly see plenty of both in their daily lives and can readily identify both correctly. The comparison between Badillo and the POI sketch does not (in my eyes) show any similarities that would lead me to ID the POI as Badillo. The length of the face, the nose and general bone structure, the height and weight do not match.

    And I do believe that the OSBI has a "good sketch" - there is a reason they are not releasing how many people saw the POI or WHO they are to protect their witnesses and be able to use those witnesses in a line-up. If I had seen this guy I would be holed up in my house till he was in custody - if he is the killer (or one of them) he has no problem taking out anyone he feels is a threat...two young innocent girls are dead at his hand - a witness would be NOTHING.

    I look at that sketch and feel it is so good that I imagine at least two or 3 unrelated witnesses were involved in the finished sketch - at least one of whom saw the POI primarily from the side and back. It is clear to me (since the sketch has gone nationwide) the OSBI believes it's a "real" likeness of the POI and that someone (or several someones) got a really good look at this guy. I just cannot see one (or even two) individuals getting such a detailed look at this guy driving by him that this sketch could be produced. I think he was seen by at least 3 or 4 witnesses at different times. This happened around 5 PM on Sunday - people were going home and heading to church - I think it's very possible several cars passed the man in a 10-15 minute window - and maybe NOT ALL at the murder scene.

    My Opinion
    If you're not part of the solution,
    you're part of the problem.

    ~Eldridge Cleaver ~




  14. #149
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    Why would several independent witnesses make up the same person? I know it's frustrating that this poi hasn't been found or ID'ed yet, but that doesn't mean he's fabricated.


  15. #150
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    The POI could be anyone .. anywhere. Look at Couey right under their nose all that time and that is a small rural community.


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