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  1. #1

    A Fresh Set of Eyes

    I'd like to welcome everyone that is new to this case. I'd love to hear thoughts as you begin to learn of the case. What are your initial thoughts? What possible scenarios do you see for who could have done it? What do you see as the facts vs the opinions. etc.

    I'd like to keep this thread clean of trying to persuade new people of anyone's guilt or innocent and as such, I ask that the posters that have followed the case paste all relevant information and facts to answer questions but leave all bias out of the answers. Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by RainbowsAndGumdrops View Post
    I'd like to keep this thread clean of trying to persuade new people of anyone's guilt or innocent and as such, I ask that the posters that have followed the case paste all relevant information and facts to answer questions but leave all bias out of the answers. Thanks.
    I don't know about the pasting part - there's so much information to weed through here that finding info. is time-consuming. But I do agree that we should welcome any new posters with reasonable debate, and not impose our firm beliefs about the case on others. I think that this is the only way that we really will get fresh perspective - to let others say what's on their mind without trying to sway them.

    "Be the change you wish to see in the world."
    Mahatma Gandhi

  3. #3
    Thanks for your comments about pasting information. My intent with this thread isn't for everyone to sift through everything and post every fact of the case. My intent is to allow new people a place to ask questions and figure out the facts. They may have read 500 posts and not found answers that are buried below 1000 posts. I think it is good for new comers to say hey, I found this. What about this? Is there more information on this? The comments on the wedding thread made me realize that there should be a neutral place for questions to be asked and details pointed out. That's all I'm trying to say.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by RainbowsAndGumdrops View Post
    Thanks for your comments about pasting information. My intent with this thread isn't for everyone to sift through everything and post every fact of the case. My intent is to allow new people a place to ask questions and figure out the facts. They may have read 500 posts and not found answers that are buried below 1000 posts. I think it is good for new comers to say hey, I found this. What about this? Is there more information on this? The comments on the wedding thread made me realize that there should be a neutral place for questions to be asked and details pointed out. That's all I'm trying to say.
    I like the idea. All and any eyes are good.

  5. #5
    terminatrixator's Avatar
    terminatrixator is offline All Posts JMO - May Godspeed Justice for Janet and her unborn child!
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    Hmmmm. Well, though a fresh set of eyes would be great about now, I've read every single thread about 300 x's and my eyes are still seeing the same thing. How about anyone else?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wherego View Post
    I think the TOD is very important. Let's just say the 10:55 pm is either inaccurate or a guess or a rumor---let's say TOD was actually 9:15---and let's say that 3 or 4 reliable witnesses swore they were playing soccer with Raven at 9:15. That would make this an entirely different case.

    So far I can not find any reports at all about a witness from the Soccer game.

    I think if LE has no more info against Raven then what I have seen on this forum that is the reason no arrest has been made. What some here feel makes Raven look guilty, a good defense attorney would just shrug at and make laughable.

    I have no idea if he is guilty or not, I would like to get some good evedence and not just character assination. I am not in the least defending him, please no flames.
    I'm moving this quote to this thread for discussion. Welcome wherego I'm glad to see new people here.

    I agree with you on TOD. I believe it is very important to know exactly when Janet was murdered. If LE had called a ME out that night, he/she could have figured out whether she was just murdered (right before Raven called 911) or was murdered hours before (when Raven was playing soccer) or was murdered between the time their visitors left and Raven's time frame for leaving to play soccer.

    It looks to me like everything else a defense attorney could blow holes through...but the TOD...no!
    Justice For Janet Christiansen Abaroa!

  7. #7
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    I respectfully disagree. A defense attorney will try to blow holes through everything including TOD. It just comes down to who the jury believes (and often times likes or dislikes). The D.A. will have experts to give TOD in a trial and the defense will have their experts that tosses everything the D.A.'s expert says.

  8. #8
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    terminatrixator is offline All Posts JMO - May Godspeed Justice for Janet and her unborn child!
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    Quote Originally Posted by BirdHunter View Post
    I respectfully disagree. A defense attorney will try to blow holes through everything including TOD. It just comes down to who the jury believes (and often times likes or dislikes). The D.A. will have experts to give TOD in a trial and the defense will have their experts that tosses everything the D.A.'s expert says.
    Also Defense attorneys are not held to the same responsibility as a prosecutor and if they want to make up stories like Janet was actually murdered by a Martian from another Galaxy and he has the proof and he will gladly show you on Monday, but we need to dismiss early today to gather that information and bring you proof, they can do that. Come Monday, they can show up as though they did not state they were going to show you irrefutable proof that some alien from another galaxy landed and is responsible for Janet's murder. They can say whatever they want to. Remember they are getting paid to be the defense attorney and all they need is reasonable doubt.

    Crimes like Janet's with or without a murder weapon, without a witness, it is ultimately a Circumstantial Evidence case, which are extremely hard to prove.

    Those that remember Scott Peterson's trial remember the audible gasp that he was actually found guilty, with all that they had. Unless they can put the weapon into the hand and have irrefutable proof with a witness, these cases are very hard to try.

    When Raven called 911 they weren't sure whether or not she was still alive, but we do know she was alive when the Church Member left and dead when the EMT's arrived.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BirdHunter View Post
    I respectfully disagree. A defense attorney will try to blow holes through everything including TOD. It just comes down to who the jury believes (and often times likes or dislikes). The D.A. will have experts to give TOD in a trial and the defense will have their experts that tosses everything the D.A.'s expert says.
    I agree that a defense attorney can and will try to blow holes in everything....however, in the three murder jurys I sat on, the jurors weigh the "facts" that were given by both the prosecutor and the defense.

    I'm just saying if the prosecutor could, at least, present to the jury that a ME immediately was on scene and could testify that she had died within minutes (or whenever), that testimony would go along way, then uhhh, I saw her several days later and it appears that she probably, most likely, was murdered between the hours of 7:30 and 11:00 p.m.

    BIG BIG mistake (and very sad), IMO, that Durham didn't have a ME on scene of an obvious murder.
    Justice For Janet Christiansen Abaroa!

  10. #10
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    terminatrixator is offline All Posts JMO - May Godspeed Justice for Janet and her unborn child!
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    I've worked for defense and prosecution for over 20 years. The deal is this, though Jurors "weigh" things they are swayed by many things, whether or not they LIKE the prosecutor or the defense is human nature. It's the way things are in life. Charm goes a long way, it's the truth, people are human.

    However, there's more to just the facts of the case. Jury Instructions are the craziest instructions you will ever have to deal with. Just knowing what goes into making of the Jury Instructions is amazing. The Jury Instructions alone are so defense biased it literally begs at times to find not guilty by reasonable doubt.

    Hearing information that is false, and gets stricken means nothing because this information is heard. More reasonable doubt.

    Anything can put a reasonable doubt on a murder case, especially this type of case because usually a crime committed in the home, that's not a random act, that's usually committed by someone that is close to the family (or part of the family) is really hard to prove because there usually is not a lot of evidence because of course, their DNA is everywhere anyhow.

    If the crime is committed by an outside source, like robber, stalker, there's usually evidence left behind.

    The ME should have been called to the home. I don't think TOD on a ME report means a whole lot truthfully but in this case, it sure would make things a lot clearer for us though.




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