07-19-2008, 06:36 PM #1
There's that line again.
Today I was reading about the Nancy Cooper Murder. I was going through the time line and that oh so special line just popped out at me. I snipped a section of the time line so that you could get a feeling for the intent in which this special phrase was used. Good job to poster Fran who typed it out beautifully.
Quote Fran re: Nancy Cooper's Case:
Saturday, July 12, 2008...2:51....Concerned for her friend and with an uneasy feeling, Jessica Adam contacted LE to report Nancy missing.
Sunday, July 13, 2008 - Police and volunteers search for the missing jogger, Nancy Cooper. Not sure of what trail she had taken, Brad had given LE three separate routes she may have gone.
Monday, July 14, 2008 - Police and hundreds of volunteers continue the search for Nancy Cooper. Local waterways are also searched.
Monday, July 14, 2008 - 3:45 p.m. Cary police said Brad Cooper was cooperating and answering questions and allowed them to search his house and cars. Police searched the couple's BMW sedan and BMW SUV. A Louis Vuitton purse was recovered from one of the vehicles.
Monday, July 14, 2008 - 7:30 p.m. - A man walking his dog found the body of a woman, near a cul de sac in The Oaks at Meadowridge off Holly Springs Road. (This was not one of the routes Nancy normally followed)
Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - The body located the previous day was identified as Nancy Cooper and her death ruled a homicide. Nancy's family was present at the news conference, but Brad was not present. (he had been inviteded, LE said they did NOT know why he was not there)
Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - 2:00 a.m. - Police serve a search warrant on the home of Nancy and Brad Cooper, as well as vehicles and the 'person' of Brad Cooper (dna).
Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - 9:00 a.m. - News conference, attended by Nancy's family, Brad was again invited and at the last minute did not show up. Police confirmed the Coopers had been having marital problems. No further details given. Cause of death was not revealed. LE requested the public, with any information about Nancy Cooper that could assist in the case, to please contact police. LE also said this was NOT a random act of violence.
Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - Brad Cooper retained attornies Howard Kurtz and Seth Blum, who, in the afternoon released a statement saying their client would not be making any statements to the press.
Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - 4:45 - 5:00 p.m. Nancy's family (mom/dad/twin,sister) filed emergency Exparte action to gain immediate custody of the two Cooper minor children. Motion granted, children transferred from father to Nancy's family with the assistance of local Police. Brad has until July 25 to file an appeal.
Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 9:00 a.m. At a news conference, it was acknowledged that Nancy's family had gained temporary custody of the children, for their safety. It is a private matter and LE will not discuss it. They will, however, use anything gained by that action, that could possibly be pertinent to the criminal investigation. LE is NOT involved in the 'civil matter' of the children.
If I was a computer wiz, and right now I am not, I would love a count of how many of the murdered pregnant wife cases in the last three or four years have the police come out and used "that line" and then........ how many of the murders turned out to be by the..... drum roll please ....... dh/babydaddy? My personal guess since I've been sleuthing for nearly 7 years, yeah technically I'm a newbie, I would say about 95% of them.
Anyone want to want to call me on this? Trix, I know you'll have tons of info. Jersey? Spanky? Legal? Wherego? Rainbow? Chicoliving? Anyone?"It's easier to KEEP Raven happy, than it is to MAKE Raven happy." ~~ JA
07-19-2008, 06:58 PM #2
LL&S, I was thinking about this case also.
NC is getting hit hard lately.
Seems a lot of these cases have other similarities, not ruled out as a suspect, money issues, affairs, etc.
I still don't know why this line gets crossed time and time again.
Not a Random Act....
I would say 95% is probably accurate, but I don't know the statistics right now. Does anyone else know.
07-19-2008, 10:10 PM #3
Heck I would settle for the stats on just NC at this point.
NOT A RANDOM ACT... not a random act... (NARA)... it goes through my mind with everything I read. That's a quote directly from LE."It's easier to KEEP Raven happy, than it is to MAKE Raven happy." ~~ JA
07-20-2008, 10:21 AM #4
First thought this morning..... NOT A RANDOM ACT!!!"It's easier to KEEP Raven happy, than it is to MAKE Raven happy." ~~ JA
07-20-2008, 07:58 PM #5Looks like I caught me a bird
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07-20-2008, 08:32 PM #6
Makes me wonder how many of these cases are getting convictions. Not many, is my guess."It's easier to KEEP Raven happy, than it is to MAKE Raven happy." ~~ JA
07-20-2008, 11:34 PM #7
I think the convictions are there, Scott Peterson, Neil Entwistle, Michael Peterson, Mark Hacking, there are convictions, but it's not easy to get.
So far there are no arrests on a lot of these cases because of Double Jeopardy and these types of murderers are the scum of the earth and there can be no chances taken on this. There are no Statute of Limitations on Murder however, and there is always hope.
These murders don't just happen in NC but it seems like a lot has happened in NC lately. Maybe the Governor of NC needs to TOUGHEN UP the laws and appropriate more money to LE Agencies and Prosecutors! How about they do a little more for Victims' Rights too!
Also the murdered women don't have to be pregnant either, ie Lisa Stebic, Stacy Peterson, we can go on and on.
Unfortunately, these types of crimes are very hard to prove, these sociopaths think their comfort is of the utmost importance and they are used to lying, conniving, and being what seems like good men on the outside but inside they are not good.
For some reason these guys are afraid of divorce because of what it will either cost them in respect, money or whatever. They are tired of or afraid of responsibility, they think by erasing their wives, their faults will not become known to others.
They are interested in not being burdened any longer, they also usually know the their lies and scams are up and the easiest way out is to take out the cause of the anxiety and often times money is also a motive. They think they deserve to live the life they want, and take away the free will of the woman though.
Usually these women adored their men but tried to make them be responsible, and pay their bills. After a while the women see the men are not perfect, the lies and other things start mounting up (usually affairs) and by the time the woman sees these men for what they are, narcissistic, psychopaths they are dead.
I think I just started on a rant and will end it here, but LL&S thank you for keeping things flowing here and getting more people involved in Justice for Janet.
07-27-2008, 07:56 PM #8
When I first heard about Nancy's murder, I couldn't help but wonder if the disenchanted husbands in NC aren't starting to think that maybe it's worth "rolling the dice", so to speak. Considering the number of unsolved crimes at this point involving women whose husbands are liars, cheaters or thieves, these sociopaths probably think that there's a pretty good chance that they can get away with it. And so far, it seems they're right.
07-28-2008, 09:33 AM #9
07-29-2008, 01:21 AM #10
07-29-2008, 01:27 PM #11
I look back at old cases of women that have been murdered by their spouse and for those of you that have been in this forum a while we have talked know the intimate details of what Janet had to go through being married to Raven, we have read first-hand Raven's way of handling himself on paper at least. We can see the narcissistic manner in which he views life and himself.
Take cases that came before this Neil Entwistle, Barton Corbin, Scott Peterson, Michael Peterson, Mark Hacking, Michael White of Canada, and the list can go, they all have a lot of common factors.
Now we have new cases and the men involved are Drew Peterson, Craig Stebic, Raven Abaroa, Jason Young, Brad Cooper. What are the similarities between these men? Were there known affairs? Were these men into material things? Did they have secrets? Did these women have a reason to want to leave their husbands? Were these men known to have different behaviors for different occasions?
Drew Peterson's now has one wife that died suspiciously and another missing and most likely dead, Barton Corbin was convicted of killing his wife, and afterwards was convicted of killing his girlfriend back in college. Dolly Hearn had no Justice until Barton Corbin killed his wife.
Most things I have found are a bit outdated, but the following is statistics done in Canada.
SPOUSAL HOMICIDE OR ATTEMPTS
After four years of decline, the national spousal homicide rate increased slightly in 2006 (from 0.44 homicides per 100,000 spouses in 2006 to 0.43 in 2005) due to more husbands being killed by their wives (from 12 in 2005 to 21 in 2006 ). There were 78 spousal homicides (56 female and 21 male victims).
Men accused of spousal or attempted homicide were three and a half times more likely than their female counterparts to be “repeat offenders”. Of females who killed or attempted to kill their spouse, 93 per cent had no prior spousal violence offence reported to police, compared to 69 per cent of males who killed or attempted to kill their spouse. Police laid charges in 84 per cent of incidents leading up to the spousal homicide or attempted homicide. In another 8 per cent of cases, victims requested that police not press charges or the incident was cleared otherwise, such as the accused being committed to a mental hospital or referred to a community-based program.
Source: Statistics Canada, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Homicide in Canada, 2006; Family Violence in Canada: A Statistical Profile 2007, see http://www.statcan.ca/.
In Canada there is also a really interesting repeat homicide offences committed under community supervision:
07-29-2008, 01:28 PM #12
There is an excellent article I would like to share with you all entitled
"Why do men kill their wives?"
I have posted some excerpts below and it becomes so apparent in my opinion that there is most definitely a correlation between the type of men that commit this type of murder and what we know about Raven Abaroa, and other unsolved cases.
Why do Men Murder?
DAVID ADAMS, a licensed psychologist spent a decade researching this. He is the cofounder and co-director of Emerge, a Cambridge program that in 1977 became the first in the nation to offer counseling to men who abuse women.
About 10 years ago, he began visiting Massachusetts prisons to meet men who had killed the women they once loved. He wanted to ask that question - why? - and discovered that their motivations fell into five categories: Some men were jealous; some were hopped up on drugs; some were career criminals; some were suicidal or depressed; and some, Adams found, were what he calls "the materially motivated."
Men in this last category lack emotional involvement, remorse, and a conscience. "They don't get jealous, because they don't care much about women," says Adams, whose book based on his research, Why Do They Kill? Men Who Murder Their Intimate Partners, is due out this fall. "They care more about the assets." They're preoccupied with money and status, and they typically live in suburban homes separated from others by fertilized lawns and manicured hedges, where neighbors can't easily overhear fights (and hence are inevitably surprised when the wives turn up dead). Cases of men killing their wives to avoid divorcing them rarely occur in urban areas - and that includes Boston, according to Deputy Superintendent Margot Hill, the Police Department's chief of the Family Justice Division. That's not to say Boston police officers don't respond to their share of murder scenes where a man has killed a wife or girlfriend. But more often than not, Hill says, these are classic cases of domestic violence, often prompted by women trying to leave, with no plotting on the men's part to avoid divorce settlements or minimize damage to assets or good names. In the suburbs, Hill says, the murder cases often take on a different twist and become "more bizarre." The men involved often have something to lose: fine cars, nice homes, reputations they've carefully crafted, or lives that others consider perfect. Yet those lives are never as perfect as they appear. Typically, Adams says, these men are keeping secrets - secrets they will do almost anything to protect. "They tend to have affairs," he says. "They tend to have a lot of financial dealings on the side. Remember Charles Stuart? His secret wish was to marry his mistress and buy a restaurant with her. And when his wife became pregnant . . . that was taking him farther away from his dream."
Of course, lots of men aren't living their dreams. There are plenty who have jobs they hate but wives they love. So who are the Charles Stuarts of the world? "They're narcissists," says retired FBI profiler Candice De- Long, who lives in San Francisco. "Life is all about them." Stuart, for example, was said to show more joy over a great haircut than over the impending birth of his child. One of Greineder's reasons to get rid of his wife of 32 years was that she was "getting older" and "soft," he told a prostitute. And one expert testifying at Sharpe's trial in 2001 said the Gloucester dermatologist, who shot his wife in front of three witnesses, might have had a personality disorder that made him both arrogant and deceitful. In fact, experts agree that most men who kill their wives to avoid divorcing them are sociopaths, able to distinguish right from wrong but not caring too much about that distinction. They will do what's good for them, says De- Long, especially when the life they have carefully crafted for themselves begins to unravel.
"For narcissists, it's not just that they love themselves," DeLong says, "but it's how others see them. Their image to others, to the world, is what's really important. And to have a chink in that armor is totally unacceptable. And that chink can be anything." Often, it's a damning secret. Husbands and wives share things. They know more about each other than perhaps anyone else does. And in a divorce, especially a nasty one, issues once locked away can go public in a hurry, shattering overnight reputations that were built up over decades.
That was Greineder's fear, according to Richard Grundy, the chief of the criminal bureau at the Massachusetts attorney general's office. Grundy was a prosecutor in Norfolk County in 2001 and built the case against the Wellesley doctor, persuading jurors that Greineder not only killed his wife to protect his secret life with prostitutes but also planned the murder for months. Greineder's goal: Make it look like a serial killer did it. "And to do that particularly," Grundy said, "what he had to do was slit the throat, right down to the neck bone, of the woman who brought him three children."
But Grundy knows that protecting secrets isn't always the motive in the murder of a spouse. He also prosecuted David Magraw in Norfolk County in his 1999 retrial for the murder of his wife, Nancy. And there, unlike the Greineder case, the issue was mostly money. Magraw, whose first wife died in 1970 in a suspicious accident, didn't want his second wife, a Walpole schoolteacher, taking half of what they owned. And Nancy Magraw knew it. "He is very angry about my suggestion that I will ask for 50 percent," she wrote to her attorney months before she was strangled in her home. "He feels that I am greedy and don't deserve it because he worked for it."
The cases were different, the motivations different. But in both instances, Grundy says, these men wanted to keep what they had. And because their feelings mean everything and the feelings of others mean very little, murder becomes an option. These men actually believe they will get away with murder, says DeLong, and they begin to think like this: "Divorce is messier than a body in the bedroom."
07-29-2008, 07:59 PM #13
After you read the entire article and base it on what you know personally of Raven Abaroa, listen to the 911 call, keep in mind he embezzled from his former employer and had court dates come summer, keep in mind, he owned a VX and material things were VERY important to him.
Keep in mind, he was NOT with Janet through most of Janet's Pregnancy with Kaiden. They got back together before Kaiden was born which is in October 2004. Same time they started getting records of him embezzling, I'm sure he embezzled for a while before he was caught, but that all came down at the end of the year, wasn't it December or January? He got arrested for embezzlement, his laptop taken, he had to get an attorney, they had him dead to rights on that, he was eventually convicted of 5 felonies.
Because of this he lost his job, Janet had to change jobs. Kaiden is now 6 months old. We have information regarding him having affairs, they are having extreme financial difficulties, yet he's going to school, spending money on soccer, was he working? They were paying for daycare? They couldn't make rent and the night before Janet is murdered he writes If I were a Bird, as if he had an epiphany the day before Janet was brutally taken from her son, yet, nothing about Janet or Kaiden in that. It's once again all about him.
Janet was pregnant again. At this point we do not have "evidence" that Janet knew she was pregnant. If you have ever been pregnant once, you know when you are pregnant, and if you become pregnant again, you know. She knew.....Raven had to get rid of VX, they had no money, they needed an attorney because he embezzled, they needed help, yet he was able to date, play soccer, go to school, afford to repair Janet's car, and afford a very HIGH END Insurance Policy.
What young girl needs a private insurance policy that high? She gets insurance through work, why would they need an independent insurance policy?
Raven made all the decisions. Janet was pregnant again. If Janet found out he was having an affair again, what would she say or do, was it deja vu all over again? Was she planning to leave him?
If Janet left Raven....and Raven had to go to trial on the embezzlement - and she divorced Raven, could she testify against him in a court of law?
In all his websites, in everything publicly Raven has posted online, he was self-absorbed, self-obsessed. Everything is about looks with Raven, he is a narcissist, and I would challenge him to go through thorough testing and that conclusion will be obvious.
He literally snuck into NC for his trial in August and he was caught coming out and that was priceless, however when asked about Kaiden he states "He looks good." Even during the NC Wanted he talked about looks.
I would challenge him to take a lie detector test. The amusing thing is, he and I both know he stands a decent chance at passing one, because he is a narcissist and sociopath.
He is a habitual liar, he habitually abuses the system, he is a habitual thief, Raven's thoughts even now are how can people be mean to him. How can people poke at him, and prod at him, it's always about him. He doesn't see things the way other's do. He has inflated thoughts of Kaiden, the object.
Jersey Girl wroteWhen I first heard about Nancy's murder, I couldn't help but wonder if the disenchanted husbands in NC aren't starting to think that maybe it's worth "rolling the dice", so to speak. Considering the number of unsolved crimes at this point involving women whose husbands are liars, cheaters or thieves, these sociopaths probably think that there's a pretty good chance that they can get away with it. And so far, it seems they're right
These men get something special on their side and that's premeditation.
I think it's so complicated yet so plain to see, I think as stated in the article that murder is an option to them, divorce is messier than a body in a bedroom, or a missing body and these men actually believe they will get away with it.
No matter what happens, I want Raven to know, I know.
No matter what happens with this case, whether or not he's ever arrested I know he premeditated Janet's and her unborn child's murder.
My comment about Vanessa was not an unfeeling or uncaring casual comment and I wanted to point that out to many of you that browse these threads.
Vanessa someday will know fear with Raven, she will go to bed some night and worry and I feel for her and I feel for her child. I do NOT want to see her harmed, but the statistics show it could happen.
She should be grateful that we are talking about this here. She should be grateful that we are, in many ways, her insurance policy.
If she sat and thought about that, she would see the truth in that statement.
I bet Jennifer Corbin wishes there were people that talked about Dolly Hearn non-stop. I bet Stacy Peterson wished there were people that talked about Drew Peterson's ex-wife's death non-stop.
People in Raven's life need to be honest with themselves, they feel safer around Raven because of us here! Would he dare do it again, with eyes on him?
Many of us here will NEVER let it go until there is Justice for Janet and I for one will always be keeping tabs on Raven.
Last edited by terminatrixator; 07-30-2008 at 02:47 AM. Reason: BOLDING THE ADDITIONS AND CLEANED UP THOUGHTS
07-30-2008, 10:05 PM #14Looks like I caught me a bird
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All I can say is WOW!
07-31-2008, 11:09 AM #15