Why the need for "blanket attorneys??"

One thing that has always been a curiosity to me was the purpose for immediately hiring attorneys for EVERY member of John Ramsey's family; even for his ex-wife, Lucinda, John Andrew and Melinda!? Yet, there were no attorneys hired for the Paugh family. It just seems especially odd that John felt the need to hire attorneys for his former wife and older children. What did they know?

If he had nothing to hide, why would he care what they told police?

I also find it odd the total difference in his actions and attitude towards JonBenét's death and that of his eldest daughter Beth's a few years earlier.

7kluz said:

One thing that has always been a curiosity to me was the purpose for immediately hiring attorneys for EVERY member of John Ramsey's family; even for his ex-wife, Lucinda, John Andrew and Melinda!? Yet, there were no attorneys hired for the Paugh family. It just seems especially odd that John felt the need to hire attorneys for his former wife and older children. What did they know?

If he had nothing to hide, why would he care what they told police?

I also find it odd the total difference in his actions and attitude towards JonBenét's death and that of his eldest daughter Beth's a few years earlier.

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The only explanation that I can fathom for the hiring of attorneys for Lucinda and the older kids is that there is quite a bit of history with that particular group of Ramseys and, if like in very many EX families, the little resentments and negative aspects of that "former life" if you will, would lend itself to its retelling when interviewed, if no attorneys were present. Even if the relationships had been mended enough for civility and such, the old adultery and who knows what of little squabbles regarding child support, etc. would easily show through if nothing other than negative attitude or body language. That's what I think........AND you are correct in that 'what could they tell the police that nobody else knows?' aspect as well.

As far as JR's response as it relates to his older daughter's death, I never could find fault in that aspect of the case. Here is an issue that truly begs the response of "nobody can dictate someone else's reaction". Unfortunately, that saying has been abused insofar as the Ramseys lack of cooperation and seemingly not normal BEHAVIOR. For that, I have no mercy. Yes, they should have reacted like the rest of us, with hounding the police instead of prohibiting a proper investigation, but that is a different topic.

Back to your question...John had lost a daughter years earlier that he had a very long history with. Not to say that JBR wasn't dear to him, but the death of his older daughter was the FIRST such incident and much more shocking for him as she was his oldest. When JBR was murdered, he was likely already washed out from grieving the loss of a child and just took it more quietly, not to mean less devastated.

It pains me to defend JR in any aspect, but in all fairness, I could never criticize his response as it COMPARES with his older daughter.

IMO when you understand how this case has been lawyered; you will understand what the truth is. The relationships between Hunter and Haddon, Hunter/Keenan and LinWad, Bynum/Morgan and Hoffstrom, etc. are all outside what I think of as the norm for adversaries in the criminal justice system.

Please PM me if you actually do understand the lawyering. I don't.

Barbara, you are absolutely right in that no one should criticize anyone simply because they do not respond to events as we personally, would expect. I realize that everyone has their own manner in dealing with grief and no two people react exactly like one another, but I observed many odd things about the Ramseys, and suspicions against them continually mounted with every new news release.

If they had nothing to hide, why were they hiding out at friends' homes and moving around like gypsies? Why did they continually refuse to cooperate with the Boulder police? Why can't someone with courage and a great deal of integrity break this wide open? I know the evidence is there, if someone could only locate those few missing pieces to this puzzle of the decade. :banghead:

1. John Ramsey didn't want anyone digging around in his domestic past.

2. Majority expert medical opinion says JonBenet was sexually abused prior to the night she was killed.

1 + 2 = IMO it's obvious what John Ramsey is hiding.

Oh, and I always thought his personal bathroom shrine to Beth was weird.

Britt, I agree about the bathroom photos of Beth. In my opinion, that is more than just a little weird... :hand:

Britt said:

1. John Ramsey didn't want anyone digging around in his domestic past.

2. Majority expert medical opinion says JonBenet was sexually abused prior to the night she was killed.

1 + 2 = IMO it's obvious what John Ramsey is hiding.

Oh, and I always thought his personal bathroom shrine to Beth was weird.

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But of the three doctors who actually examined her (Beuf, Meyers, Sirotnak) Beuf says she wasn't and Meyers have not said she was. One would think if Meyers and Sirotnak had found evidence of prior sexual abuse BPD wouldn't have had to cherry pick around the countryside to find 3 doctors who would say at the FBI presentation she had been abused.

Bathroom shrine??

tipper said:

But of the three doctors who actually examined her (Beuf, Meyers, Sirotnak) Beuf says she wasn't and Meyers have not said she was.

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Beuf - didn't examine her. Said so himself. Quotes and source posted previously.

Meyer - it's in his report, right there in black and white. What, just because he and Sirotnak didn't give public interviews, we're supposed to fill in their opinions for them? lol

One would think if Meyers and Sirotnak had found evidence of prior sexual abuse BPD wouldn't have had to cherry pick around the countryside to find 3 doctors who would say at the FBI presentation she had been abused.

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You mean, consult EXPERTS?

The only cherrypickin going on is when Ramsey defenders repeatedly cite Beuf re a conclusion he wasn't in a position to make, and then ignore what Meyer clearly stated in his report.

The EXPERTS, however, are unanimous about what Meyer's report means and state unanimously that there was prior abuse, except that Krugman thinks it was Patsy who did it as physical punishment whereas the others think it was sexual abuse.

Even if there were an expert who stated no prior abuse, which there ISN'T, leave it to Ramsey defenders to ignore six or seven experts who say otherwise in favor of the one who supports what they want to believe. lol

There is a big difference between how a man relates to a woman, his wife, and the children they have when the man and woman are married and have children in their twenties and how a man relates to the woman and the children they have in his second marriage when he is approaching middle age. Add the fact that John's second wife entered her first marriage late for her and to an older man.

Both men and women relate to grandchildren differently than children. John's second life had a mix of trophy bride with children the age of grandchildren for him. He was likely to treat them all differently from how he would treat a wife and children of a young man.

What John attempted to do was very, very difficult; have the dream family after having a real family. Dreams turn into nightmares.

It was Patsy that used JonBenet as a canvas for her sexual expression, not John. Odds are it was Patsy that used JonBenet's body for genital exploration.

Britt said:

1. John Ramsey didn't want anyone digging around in his domestic past.

2. Majority expert medical opinion says JonBenet was sexually abused prior to the night she was killed.

1 + 2 = IMO it's obvious what John Ramsey is hiding.

Oh, and I always thought his personal bathroom shrine to Beth was weird.

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I agree that his personal bathroom shrine is not only beyond weird, but outright inappropriate and questionable. Why would a man have pictures of his deceased daughter, etc. in his personal bathroom?

Sick!

Could someone describe this "shrine?"

Tipper, this "shrine" consisted of a number of photos of Beth in John's personal bathroom. It wasn't "technically" a shrine, but it appeared extremely odd to many people why he had so many photos of Beth in his private bath.

7kluz said:

Tipper, this "shrine" consisted of a number of photos of Beth in John's personal bathroom. It wasn't "technically" a shrine, but it appeared extremely odd to many people why he had so many photos of Beth in his private bath.

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Different strokes for different folks...
For some reason I don't find this odd. I spend (at least) 30 minutes in the bathroom every morning, so I might consider doing the same thing John did. It would be nice to start each morning remembering the child I lost by seeing photos of how I remembered her.

I agree, Shylock. The bathroom is the only "quiet time" I get to myself.

BrotherMoon said:

It was Patsy that used JonBenet as a canvas for her sexual expression, not John. Odds are it was Patsy that used JonBenet's body for genital exploration.

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Possibly, and also IMO it's just as likely John took advantage of the "Patsy extension" that Patsy created using JonBenet.

Shylock said:

For some reason I don't find this odd. I spend (at least) 30 minutes in the bathroom every morning, so I might consider doing the same thing John did.

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And maybe no one would give it a second thought if one of John's other daughters hadn't turned up dead in his basement with evidence of prior sexual abuse.

Is there a link to crime scene photos? I don't want to see autopsy photos though.


THANKS!!

Which crime scene photos are you wanting to view? I have many of them and they are also posted on several websites. If you know which ones you want, PM me, and I can give you the URLs to view individual photos. Otherwise, you would be viewing extremely graphic photos. They aren't actually autopsy photos, but there are some of JonBenét's lower face, and her body depicting the bruises on her neck and back.

Does this "shrine" exist in the house they live in now? Or, was this the house in Boulder? Or, both? Or, all of their homes? Or, this fifth option? Perhaps he has a JBR shrine in his bathroom now. Wouldn't that be quaint?

Britt said:

And maybe no one would give it a second thought if one of John's other daughters hadn't turned up dead in his basement with evidence of prior sexual abuse.

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Good point...

Dshadow, I have heard very little about the Ramseys in the past few years. Since their move back to Atlanta after JonBenét's murder, there hasn't been as much "news" floating about. Apparently, the people in Atlanta aren't as convinced of their guilt, or are just more closed mouthed about the Ramsey's business.

It is possible that John still has his collection of bathroom photos of Beth, although he may have realized that people thought this odd and now keeps them elsewhere. Then again, maybe JR doesn't give a damn what people think, and continues to keep his bathroom stock piled with photos of both Beth, and JonBenét.

I assume they are now living in Michigan in order to fulfill the resident requirement for election purposes. I have to admit, I am shocked that JR is running for office in Michigan. I don't think he has a snowball's chance in *ell of winning, but, I may get shocked again...