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Thread: Possible Diagnosis

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    Possible Diagnosis

    Compulsive Lying - Pseudologia Fantastica

    The defining characteristics of pseudologia fantastica are that, first, the stories are not entirely improbable and often have some element of truth. They aren't a manifestation of delusion or some more wider form of psychosis: upon confrontation, the person can acknowledge them to be untrue, even if unwillingly.

    Second, the fabricative tendency is long lasting; it is not provoked by the immediate situation or social pressure as much as it originates with the person's innate urge to act in accordance.

    Third, a definitely internal, not an external, motive for the behavior can be clinically discerned. E.g. long lasting extortion or habitual spousal battery might cause a person to lie repeatedly, without the lying being a pathological symptom.

    Fourth, the stories told tend towards presenting the person in question in a good light. For example, the person might be presented as being fantastically brave, knowing or being related to many famous people

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudologia_fantastica
    Last edited by Nicole_LongIsland; 07-31-2008 at 06:41 AM.



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    Possible Diagnosis (Personality Disorders)

    Histrionic personality disorder (HPD)
    There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

    - Is uncomfortable in situations in which he or she is not the center of attention - - - Interaction with others is often characterized by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behavior
    - Displays rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotions
    -Consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self
    -Has a style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail
    -Shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion
    -Is suggestible, i.e., easily influenced by others or circumstances
    -Considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are.


    http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe06.html
    Last edited by Nicole_LongIsland; 07-31-2008 at 06:42 AM.



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    Possible Personality Disorder

    Borderline Personality Disorder:
    A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
    - frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment;
    -a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation;
    - identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self;
    -impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating);
    - recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior;
    - affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days);
    - chronic feelings of emptiness;
    - inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights);
    - transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.


    http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe05.html
    Last edited by Nicole_LongIsland; 07-31-2008 at 06:43 AM.



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    Possible Personality Disorder


    Narcissistic Personality Disorder:
    A pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and a lack of empathy (must be 18) followed by five or more of the characteristics below:
    - Feels grandiose and self-important (e.g., exaggerates accomplishments, talents, skills, contacts, and personality traits to the point of lying, demands to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements);
    - Is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, unequalled brilliance (the cerebral narcissist), bodily beauty or sexual performance (the somatic narcissist), or ideal, everlasting, all-conquering love or passion;
    - Firmly convinced that he or she is unique and, being special, can only be understood by, should only be treated by, or associate with, other special or unique, or high-status people (or institutions);
    - Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation – or, failing that, wishes to be feared and to be notorious (Narcissistic Supply);
    - Feels entitled. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or her unreasonable expectations for special and favorable priority treatment;
    - Is "interpersonally exploitative", i.e., uses others to achieve his or her own ends;
    - Devoid of empathy. Is unable or unwilling to identify with, acknowledge, or acceptthefeelings, needs, preferences, priorities, and choices of others;
    - Constantly envious of others and seeks to hurt or destroy the objects of his or her frustration. Suffers from persecutory (paranoid) delusions as he or she believes that they feel the same about him or her and are likely to act similarly;
    - Behaves arrogantly and haughtily. Feels superior, omnipotent, omniscient, invincible, immune, "above the law", and omnipresent (magical thinking). Rages when frustrated, contradicted, or confronted by people he or she considers inferior to him or her and unworthy.



    http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe07.html
    Last edited by Nicole_LongIsland; 07-31-2008 at 06:44 AM.



  5. #5
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    Thanks for adding this thread as it makes good sense to put possible disorders in one spot rather that scattered throughout all the threads!

  6. #6
    This young women's drug use has precipitate a bipolar disorder that lay dormant. She also has other psych problems.. as far as authority figures go...but .. for now we need to get Caylee back..then what treatment her Mom recovers is secondary to me.

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    Great information, Nicole, thanks so much!

    Just curious where you got the information - I originally thought they were links because the title was underlined, but it wasn't a link. Very informative, thanks again!
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    According to her atty tonight she has no mental issues at all. Some of her behavior can be attributed to stress. - Micheal Walsh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaDawn View Post
    This young women's drug use has precipitate a bipolar disorder that lay dormant. She also has other psych problems.. as far as authority figures go...but .. for now we need to get Caylee back..then what treatment her Mom recovers is secondary to me.
    I was not aware she has an issue with drug use. I really can't see that she does have any major problems with any major drugs- she has been in jail all this time and has not appeared to go through any type of withdrawl. She is not being held in a medical unit or segregation which is what they would do to make sure she stays safe while detoxing. Having seen her in court a couple of times and on video in jail, she does not have the "shakes" or anything else that would go with her being in withdrawl from drugs.

    She seems to have tendencies for several different dx's. No doubt she has Bipolar-like behaviors and attitudes but IMO we don't know enough about this woman to know if she has ever had issues with depression OR mania not to mention delusions of grandeur etc etc.

    I am not saying a dx of Bipolar is out of the question- I certainly wouldn't be surprised if information came out that shows she indeed has a history of Mania/Depression but IMO she presents more like a person with a personality disorder than with a person with Bipolar.

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    By the looks of her myspace posts on other people's blogs, I'd guess bipolar disorder. There seems to be some kind of manic air to her posts...especially those around the time of Caylee's disappearance.

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    Definitely Narcissistic.

    And talk about "delusions of grandeur"!!! She wanted to believe that she had a job which she didn't have, to pay for a "nanny" that probably doesn't exist. Now she expects people to believe that her child was kidnapped, but not in the usual way with a ransom note, but in a "special way" that only she and her family can deal with because the cops would bungle it.

    So she becomes one of Charlie's Angels and goes out looking for the child herself (allegedly) in her own little super-sleuth daydream, because calling 911 would just be too beneath her.

    And where did she get these delusions? Possibly from her own mother, who is now taking calls and following leads on her own. Every time her mom is on TV, she lectures someone about how no one can understand anything except the family.

    Borderline, Delusional, Bipolar, Sociopathic - call it what you will. Perhaps all of the above.

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    Hello all, been reading the forum for the last few days and decided to join up. I live in Orlando, where of course it is the top story of every newscast here, and I have become enthralled with the case. Can't get enough of it! I live near several of the involved locations (Amy/Ricardo condo, old folks home area she took the cops to) and could easily do a little investigation work around them if needed.

    This post may belong in the Theories thread instead, but I thought it might also apply in the Diagnosis thread here also, as I agree with the Delusions of Grandeur post by Thoughtfox.

    My current opinion is that Casey hid her with someone to keep her from Cindy, possibly as punishment for how Casey was being treated by Cindy (that per Cindy's Myspace blog on July 3, which I'm really surprised none of the news outlets have hit on). I don't think she ever expected it to blow up into the huge national deal it has become, but now that it has she is going to try to take advantage of the situation in order to become a *Celebrity* (In her warped mind at least).

    What could now happen is whoever has Caylee may get tired and/or scared becaue of all the press attention and all of a sudden Caylee will be found wandering around a mall or something by herself, and the "Kidnapper" will never be found, resulting in possible vindication of Casey ("See, I wasn't lying!"). Casey will then do her best to turn this into a situation where she becomes a *Celebrity* and tries to make money out of the situation somehow.

    She didn't plan the whole thing out this way, but will take advantage of how it has turned out any way that she can.

    Of course, there is the decomposition dog hits to contend with, but I am hoping that turns out to be something else and Caylee is OK.

    Anyway, great forum and I look forward to being able to contribute in some small way!
    Muzikman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzikman View Post
    Hello all, been reading the forum for the last few days and decided to join up. I live in Orlando, where of course it is the top story of every newscast here, and I have become enthralled with the case. Can't get enough of it! I live near several of the involved locations (Amy/Ricardo condo, old folks home area she took the cops to) and could easily do a little investigation work around them if needed.

    This post may belong in the Theories thread instead, but I thought it might also apply in the Diagnosis thread here also, as I agree with the Delusions of Grandeur post by Thoughtfox.

    My current opinion is that Casey hid her with someone to keep her from Cindy, possibly as punishment for how Casey was being treated by Cindy (that per Cindy's Myspace blog on July 3, which I'm really surprised none of the news outlets have hit on). I don't think she ever expected it to blow up into the huge national deal it has become, but now that it has she is going to try to take advantage of the situation in order to become a *Celebrity* (In her warped mind at least).

    What could now happen is whoever has Caylee may get tired and/or scared becaue of all the press attention and all of a sudden Caylee will be found wandering around a mall or something by herself, and the "Kidnapper" will never be found, resulting in possible vindication of Casey ("See, I wasn't lying!"). Casey will then do her best to turn this into a situation where she becomes a *Celebrity* and tries to make money out of the situation somehow.

    She didn't plan the whole thing out this way, but will take advantage of how it has turned out any way that she can.

    Of course, there is the decomposition dog hits to contend with, but I am hoping that turns out to be something else and Caylee is OK.

    Anyway, great forum and I look forward to being able to contribute in some small way!
    Muzikman
    Welcome to WS

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneLostGrl View Post
    I was not aware she has an issue with drug use. I really can't see that she does have any major problems with any major drugs- she has been in jail all this time and has not appeared to go through any type of withdrawl. She is not being held in a medical unit or segregation which is what they would do to make sure she stays safe while detoxing. Having seen her in court a couple of times and on video in jail, she does not have the "shakes" or anything else that would go with her being in withdrawl from drugs.
    Thanks for the Welcome OneLostGirl!

    I have to disagree with this part of your assesment. You do not really have the withdrawal symptoms from Cocaine as compared to say Heroin or Meth, especially if you haven't been using it that long. Cocaine is expensive and fairly prevalent around Orlando in some circles (such as possibly the rap promoter scene she seems to have gotten involved in with TonE) and would also explain the LARGE amounts of money she quickly ran up on Cindy's CC as well as the theft of money from Amy, needed to support the habit -especially if she was hooking up every one around her (TonE and friends, etc.)

    Just another Party Girl trying to look cool to her new circle of friends.

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    I'm inclined to think Casey is not heavily involved with drug, maybe some light usage but not a big druggie. At the jail I work at, it's pretty well known when someone with a drug problem comes in, that's why they end up being in a cell by themselves while they detox. Some will go several days without eating, they have several physical signs of the torment they're going though.
    The times I've seen Casey, she looks like it's just another ordinary day for her, no thought of her daughter missing, not missing meals or that she's locked up. To me this all says a deep seated mental defect. When all is told imo we'll hear of many warning signs.

    VB

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    Excellent posts Nichole_LongIsland. Thank you very much.

    Can you please link where you found this information? Also, due to copyright laws you can't post the whole "article" if you will without permission. Not trying to be a wetblanket here.

    If you could edit several lines out of each post and then add the link at the bottom of each post that should do it. Thank you for going to all this work to find the information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzikman View Post
    Hello all, been reading the forum for the last few days and decided to join up. I live in Orlando, where of course it is the top story of every newscast here, and I have become enthralled with the case. Can't get enough of it! I live near several of the involved locations (Amy/Ricardo condo, old folks home area she took the cops to) and could easily do a little investigation work around them if needed.

    This post may belong in the Theories thread instead, but I thought it might also apply in the Diagnosis thread here also, as I agree with the Delusions of Grandeur post by Thoughtfox.

    My current opinion is that Casey hid her with someone to keep her from Cindy, possibly as punishment for how Casey was being treated by Cindy (that per Cindy's Myspace blog on July 3, which I'm really surprised none of the news outlets have hit on). I don't think she ever expected it to blow up into the huge national deal it has become, but now that it has she is going to try to take advantage of the situation in order to become a *Celebrity* (In her warped mind at least).

    What could now happen is whoever has Caylee may get tired and/or scared becaue of all the press attention and all of a sudden Caylee will be found wandering around a mall or something by herself, and the "Kidnapper" will never be found, resulting in possible vindication of Casey ("See, I wasn't lying!"). Casey will then do her best to turn this into a situation where she becomes a *Celebrity* and tries to make money out of the situation somehow.

    She didn't plan the whole thing out this way, but will take advantage of how it has turned out any way that she can.

    Of course, there is the decomposition dog hits to contend with, but I am hoping that turns out to be something else and Caylee is OK.

    Anyway, great forum and I look forward to being able to contribute in some small way!
    Muzikman
    Welcome Muzikman. It seems you too are now a WS Addict. There is no cure. Just the need for more and more WS

    I like your theory. I pray that it is true.

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    Thanks Tricia! Great forum you've started here that could do some good in the world. Kudos.

    I hope my theory is on target too. I've watched every minute of local and national TV coverage that I can - DVR'ing two channels while watching another, because every TV station here has come out with revelations of their own at times.

    I actually caught the whole 3 hour bond hearing live because I was sick in bed that day. Channel 13, the local 24/7 local news/traffic/weather cable station, broadcast it in it's entirety, which is what got me hooked. VERY compelling.

    Theory still needs a little fleshing out to be complete, such as: it would also explain why she doesn't seem really concerned about Caylee - because she actually does know where she is and who she's with, she's safe, just being hidden from Grandma for a while. That's why she didn't report it, why she's been out having a good time, but when Grandma finally caught up with her and called 911 - she had to come up with a story quickly.

    There are definitely some issues between Cindy and Casey which started this whole mess, and George and Cindy do need to come clean about them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tricia View Post
    Excellent posts Nichole_LongIsland. Thank you very much.

    Can you please link where you found this information? Also, due to copyright laws you can't post the whole "article" if you will without permission. Not trying to be a wetblanket here.

    If you could edit several lines out of each post and then add the link at the bottom of each post that should do it. Thank you for going to all this work to find the information.

    Tricia
    no problem Tricia



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    Well Nicole it is definatelty not this one.

    For example, the person might be presented as being fantastically brave, knowing or being related to many famous people.
    Pseudologia fantastica is not currently listed as a symptom in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, nor in the The International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems. Not much has been established about pathological lying, except that it is the mental state of the liar and not the lie that is abnormal.[2]
    Amongst the psychiatric profession, the condition holds perhaps even legendary value, thanks to Sigmund Freud's treatment of the subject.

    But I am amazed at you checking these personalty problem or I guess mental problems. I want to look at the others so do not take offense that I do not agree with the first. I know. I KNOW you are right about her having a problem.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicole_LongIsland View Post
    Narcissistic Personality Disorder:
    A pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and a lack of empathy (must be 18) followed by five or more of the characteristics below:
    - Feels grandiose and self-important (e.g., exaggerates accomplishments, talents, skills, contacts, and personality traits to the point of lying, demands to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements);
    - Is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, unequalled brilliance (the cerebral narcissist), bodily beauty or sexual performance (the somatic narcissist), or ideal, everlasting, all-conquering love or passion;
    - Firmly convinced that he or she is unique and, being special, can only be understood by, should only be treated by, or associate with, other special or unique, or high-status people (or institutions);
    - Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation or, failing that, wishes to be feared and to be notorious (Narcissistic Supply);
    - Feels entitled. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or her unreasonable expectations for special and favorable priority treatment;
    - Is "interpersonally exploitative", i.e., uses others to achieve his or her own ends;
    - Devoid of empathy. Is unable or unwilling to identify with, acknowledge, or acceptthefeelings, needs, preferences, priorities, and choices of others;
    - Constantly envious of others and seeks to hurt or destroy the objects of his or her frustration. Suffers from persecutory (paranoid) delusions as he or she believes that they feel the same about him or her and are likely to act similarly;
    - Behaves arrogantly and haughtily. Feels superior, omnipotent, omniscient, invincible, immune, "above the law", and omnipresent (magical thinking). Rages when frustrated, contradicted, or confronted by people he or she considers inferior to him or her and unworthy.



    http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe07.html
    Seen this one before. It is suposed to be rare but we find it often in murderers.
    I can see all but one for sure. The next to the last says Constaantly envieous of others and seeks to destroy objects they feel the same about and are to act simialary.
    Right off I would say this is Caylee. But I do not know enough about psychiatry to really understand the meaning of this quote. I do know Casey hits on everything else and that is way too many to disregard.
    What does the next to the last quote mean?

  22. #22
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    Never mind. I reread it and she definately has all these signs. It is sad because it really does tell us she likely, or in my opinion definately , killed Caylee.
    I bet it is really difficult to fit someone in all the symptoms. Casey has all of them. I wonder how many are needed to diangnos. I did see you need 5 to fit the signs. That is why I have wanted to see her mental evaluation. I'd also like to see the woman that stabbed her psychiatrist husband that had the 2 sons. Dang I forget her name. She took on her own defense. I think it would be really rare to be able to see these glowing neon signs she is mentally off. I have to question her parents denial. But I think they have covered for her so long they are just hoping she did not kill her daughter. I think now they are starting to know she did.

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    I am sorry. My posts got screwed up. I tried to reply and it did not work so I sent it again and lost part of my post.
    I think the opening post is great. I find the Narcistic personality fits like a shoe. And I am so glad it was posted.

  24. #24
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    Casey's new attorney says she does not have any latent mental defects and that she is not psychotic.

    Is that some sort of double speak to make it sound like she does not have any current mental problems when she really does? Would he have seen the mental evaluation by now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SewingDeb View Post
    Casey's new attorney says she does not have any latent mental defects and that she is not psychotic.

    Is that some sort of double speak to make it sound like she does not have any current mental problems when she really does? Would he have seen the mental evaluation by now?
    He did surprize us by saying she was not mentally ill. Anyone that has kept up with this case knows she is crazy. It is bad for the defense to say she is not insane because they certainly could use this in trial.
    On the other hand she is not crazy as in the definition of insanity. She certainly knows right from wrong. She is nuts on the side of being narcisistic and not caring in anyway about her own child. Her attorney would have a hard time pursuing the insanity defense since she is intelligent and seems to be certainly consciouse of time and place. He is getting record attention for this trial and I think he will go all the way out for it. It will make him a valued defense attorney. Even though we can all see Casey will not cooperate and is telling lies.

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