08-21-2008, 05:01 PM
Thanks for taking the look, Soulscape. I didn't see anything particularly enlightening either.
I am wondering how we could research/then speculate if and when LE might charge her with more than they have. I am not sure where to look, which chart might be most informative, aside from Casey's, of course.
If Casey's is the best one, how do we deal with no birth-time? Which planet(s) would we look to, in your opinion?
This is a good way to explain to others how we work to figure out these things, as long as they all remember that the charts are good, but the humans trying to interpret them can be, and often are, unable to figure out what is staring us in the face!
I think I will check Cindy's transits to see how she is holding up with Casey at home. Come to think of it, should check George, too!
Last edited by housemouse; 08-21-2008 at 05:03 PM.
Reason: adding info
08-21-2008, 05:02 PM
Can I make a suggestion, my dearest House Mouse? Do you have what you need to do Jesse Grund's chart?
Originally Posted by housemouse
08-21-2008, 05:18 PM
Alas, Blink. I have no info on Jesse G.
But, it would be very interesting to cast a chart for him, to see how he links to Casey, and if there are any links to Caylee that might suggest parenthood. Of course, these would be very speculative if we do not have his birth time.
Usually, there are links between children's charts and those of their parents. Frequently Mars can be found in children's charts linked to personal points of their mothers. This is particularly true in C-Section births.
Midpoints are also useful, as family patterns tend to repeat. I find this very interesting, both from a practical point of view, and also from a philosophical/metaphysical one.
But, I try to stay away from the metaphysical. Just too much for a li'l housemouse to comprehend how it all works!
08-21-2008, 05:24 PM
After posting that last, I started thinking about whether it is ethical or fair to invade Jesse G's. privacy in this way.
Just because we can do something, doesn't mean we should.
That said, if Jessie G. comes up at trial, as a witness, then maybe it is a different ball game?
08-21-2008, 05:55 PM
Jesse G is already a known witness and testified at the bond hearing, since I am very new to what you do, I should say I am not believing he is the father of Caylee, I am just interested in what a chart would say for him.. I;ll let you do one for me if it can stay anonymous if that seems fair (I say timidly)
Originally Posted by housemouse
Regardless, if you think it a bad idea I completely understand.
You know I have great respect for you and am just trying to learn about what you do
Last edited by Blink34; 08-21-2008 at 10:57 PM.
08-21-2008, 06:12 PM
Has this chart for the this phone call been posted yet? I'm dying to know and can't seem to find it.
Originally Posted by Soulscape
08-21-2008, 06:12 PM
If you think it is ok with the Mods, then post his birth date here, and the time, if you have it!
I will do his chart, post it here for Neptunian and Soulscape, so we all can comment on the connections we see.
08-21-2008, 06:18 PM
Sorry, Soulscape! Somehow I missed your post. Here is the post for the 3rd 911 call from Cindy.
Originally Posted by Soulscape
08-21-2008, 06:30 PM
Midpoints show more!
I decided to look at the Midpoints for that phone call! Very interesting! Look at Mercury and Neptune so close, and check all the midpoints within 1 and one half degree of Mercury and Neptune!
Nice picture of what was going on. These are all around 08 in the sort. And, notice the Sun/Moon midpoint. It is out of orb, but might still be relevant to the situation, considering the earlier phone calls?
I haven't checked the rest of the planets and midpoints within orb, nor have I checked these against natal charts. Getting a bit tired...
08-21-2008, 06:39 PM
Cindy's forecast for the next week
Thought you might find this interesting. Remember, it is just a "generic computer generated forecast"
Transit PLUTO square natal Mars
Aug 21 through Aug 27, 2008
This long-term influence is likely to bring difficult but not insurmountable circumstances, the nature of which involves overcoming those with more power than your own, situations that involve a new start or regaining something that was lost, or dealing with the threatened loss of your own power or influence. Obstacles that stand in your way at this time are likely to be the result of some type of wrongful physical actions. If you have physically abused others or yourself this must be corrected. If you have engaged in dishonest actions, they too, must be corrected. Wasting time and physical energy in the past now comes back to haunt you. Circumstances may require that the methods you use to perform your tasks and responsibilities must be more efficient. Male relationships or your contacts and activities that involve men may be troublesome. Your competitive spirit and aggressiveness is apt to be tested. This is a period when much strength and other benefits may be gained, but not without some frustrations or setbacks that test your determination to succeed.
Transit SUN square natal Mercury
Aug 21 through Aug 22, exact on Aug 22
You may be kept busier than usual with writing or other communications. Others may seek your advice or opinion and you have to scramble for the information they require. Pay closer attention to what you hear or read. It is likely to contain something worth knowing. Those in charge may criticize your ideas and opinions, or perhaps their objection concerns the manner in which you choose to express yourself. Take such discouragement in stride because it doesnít necessarily mean you are wrong. If your ideas are solid and well-organized, all you need is patience, determination, and the willingness to try various approaches in presenting them to others until something works. Avoid indulging in false promises, boasting, and misleading information, and do not allow yourself to become frustrated or fooled by others who do. When in traffic you can expect to encounter arrogant or careless drivers.
Transit SUN conjoined natal Pluto
Aug 22 through Aug 23, exact on Aug 22
You may be very intense, propelled by the urge to get to the bottom of motivations and understand the psychological reason for your ego drives. If normally strong-willed, you may be even more formidable in going after something today. If not particularly strong-willed, you may suddenly want to be. You resent others who are manipulative or have more power or control than yourself. Self-control, power and the use of power are apt to become more interesting concepts than usual or they may have a part to play in todayís scenario.
Transit MERCURY square natal Saturn
Aug 23 through Aug 24, exact on Aug 24
You may not know exactly what to do with the information, ideas, or methods you encounter during this period. A particular item may seem very interesting and even valuable but trying to use or apply it, you run into difficulties or restrictions of one kind or another. It may simply be a case of not being able to put the idea or method to practical use for the time being, perhaps even for a long period of time, but someday it will come in handy. Under this influence attempts at organization and planning may be hampered, either by too much perfectionism or lack of time. Even if you are usually very efficient and organized, the very document, book, or other item you need cannot be located. You may be required to redo or complete a task you thought was finished. Eventually everything will get straightened out and you will have some progress to show for your efforts.
Transit VENUS square natal Saturn
Aug 24 through Aug 25, exact on Aug 24
What seems like rejection may not be, or what may actually be rejection can work to your advantage. Unhappiness at being unable to afford the cost of something may go much deeper than regretting the lack of money. Gaining love and affection or something that you want will not be easy, and, once it is achieved, you may not want the accompanying responsibilities. Socializing is difficult. You are not necessarily more antisocial but since current circumstances may prevent you from being able to enjoy yourself, you prefer to be alone. Under this influence what seems most attractive may turn out to be the least desirable. In return for cooperation or favors you seek, you must be willing to give something of equal value in return-- otherwise you may get nothing at all or a poor imitation of what you wanted. Overworry is more than possible, especially related to legal matters, romance, impending social engagements, or debates. The final result is apt to be success, but whether all goes smoothly because or in spite of the fact that you worried so much is debatable.
Transit MERCURY opposed natal Mars
Aug 27 through Aug 28
Information and ideas may lead to incorrect actions during this period. Either the information itself is erroneous or you misinterpret what it means. You are apt to go out and do exactly the opposite of what you have been told--or having correctly followed instructions, it turns out you should have done exactly the opposite. Either way the results are not likely to be happy or successful. You tend to act too rashly or fail to ascertain certain details which results in equally undesirable consequences. This is not a favorable time for the purchase or sale of a car and electrical or mechanical equipment, nor is it fortuitous to take a trip. Under this unfortunate influence potentials for travel include physical danger, equipment breakdown, and delays or cancellation.
08-21-2008, 07:54 PM
Forecast for Casey this coming week
Transit SATURN square natal Saturn
Aug 21 through Aug 21, 2008
There is little flexibility in your current circumstances. The key is to find the little that is there. People and situations you encounter are too much alike, imposing too many of the same restrictions, fears, or formalities to allow for new growth or overwhelming success. The positive side is that it is only temporary and should not be allowed to drastically interfere with your plans and goals.
Transit PLUTO square natal Sun
Aug 21 through Aug 27
This long-term influence is likely to bring difficult but not insurmountable circumstances, the nature of which involves overcoming those with more power than your own, a new start or regaining something that was lost, or dealing with the threatened loss of your own power or influence. This is a period when much strength and other benefits may be gained but not without some frustrations or setbacks that test your inner drive and determination, humble your egotistical attitudes and ambitions, and challenge your integrity and generosity.
Transit JUPITER square natal Venus
Aug 21 through Aug 27
Values and priorities get confused in this period. It can result in either being the perpetrator or the victim of shameless social climbing, ostentatiousness, laziness, wastefulness, and overindulgence. Being successful with regard to a partnership and other alliances, joint ventures, social events, and romance does not promise to be an easy matter, but there is nevertheless the potential for progress or even success if you choose to persevere. Legal matters and negotiating contracts and other agreements during this period may in the end, turn to your advantage, but self-serving goals in the guise of concessions or other snags might have to be dealt with first.
Transit MERCURY square natal Uranus
Aug 23 through Aug 24, exact on Aug 23
Since your ideas about whatís different or unique may be at odds with other peopleís notions, a certain amount of discussion and clarification becomes necessary. During this period you may find yourself a little out of synch with those who are trying to communicate with you, either because you are not in your usual location or following your normal schedule, or because they arenít. Under this influence you either understand or approach most things in a nonpersonal, societal way and thus misinterpret what others want you to understand on a personal level, or, others take what you say in a personal way when your only intention was to discuss the broader societal implications of some issue.
Transit VENUS square natal Uranus
Aug 23 through Aug 24, exact on Aug 24
Interactions of all kinds; romantic, social, business, friendships and even fleeting encounters with such people as salesclerks or bank tellers-- can have a way of putting you in touch with the values and social mores of your own generation rather than what is currently fashionable. It can work in many different ways and on many different levels. You may, for instance, be wearing a certain style of clothing and find yourself among those dressed in fashions that differ strikingly from your own. Your interactions with others may also differ strikingly enough to make social events somewhat awkward. Any of these potential circumstances can end up being pleasant experiences, even if they are initially uncomfortable. Others are apt to eventually come around to finding you attractive and interesting, and you are able to succeed at something because of your uniqueness not in spite of it. Coordinating group activities is apt to be frustrating but if you rise to the challenge, your efforts may produce viable results.
Transit MERCURY opposed natal Mercury
Aug 24 through Aug 24, exact on Aug 24
Attempts to mesh people and ideas together in some sort of meaningful way are useless for the time being. You may become very discouraged coping with diverse opinions and people running off in opposite directions. You may hear or read about various ideas on a certain subject but these ideas may not agree with each other or answer your questions. What is worse, they may be in total conflict with your own thinking. There is no mechanism for the easy flow or exchange of communications. People keep changing their minds, or you do. No one agrees on a price, a time to meet, or the best way to reach a destination. Trying to teach or trying to learn is difficult at best.
Transit VENUS opposed natal Mercury
Aug 24 through Aug 25, exact on Aug 25
Rudeness or total lack of communication is a viable potential during this period. Presenting your thoughts and ideas to others is not a good idea. You are likely to encounter vigorous opposition, and at the very least you will waste your time. Conciliatory gestures are meaningless and perhaps even insulting, or least taken as insults. Do not expect to find others agreeable or willing to compromise. Commercial transactions are difficult. Failure to agree on a mutually satisfactory price or to resolve other conflicting opinions is apt to stymie progress. This is a time when the words donít go with the music. Concentration and learning are likely to suffer from too many distractions, mental laziness, or both. Not an auspicious time for success in art and design projects, or to purchase books, luxury items and subscription concert or theater tickets. Traveling is not apt to put you in the company of congenial companions. If it should happen that situations proceed more smoothly than the potential indicates, count yourself fortunate. The best advice is to realize what the negative potentials are and sidestep them whenever and wherever you can.
Transit MERCURY square natal Mars
Aug 25 through Aug 26, exact on Aug 26
Trying to physically get things done during this period is apt to be frustrating. Incorrect information or directions may cause you to be too early or too late to accomplish a certain goal. The car may break down or public transportation delays throw off your travel schedule. Purchase of a car or other equipment may develop snags. Others may say things or use methods that provoke you to anger. Under this influence it is to your ultimate advantage to avoid rash behavior, and to make sure you understand the information you receive. No matter what headaches turn up, literally and figuratively, you are still liable to make measurable progress. You are likely to be more competitive or aggressive, which, in itself, can help you accomplish more. Protect yourself against airborne colds and fever, and take extra precautions when handling electrical equipment and volatile materials.
Transit VENUS square natal Mars
Aug 26 through Aug 27, exact on Aug 27
Competitive spirits are aroused in your current circumstances. As long as you donít become overly aggressive, or allow others to assume that manner in dealing with you, the potential for excitement and stimulation of a physical nature can lead to some great adventures. You can use the added energy for many things, not the least of which is to burn off calories, accomplish the tasks at hand, and enjoy the stimulation of challenging interactions with the opposite sex. Donít overreact physically to insult and allow the pursuit of pleasure or revenge to rob you of what might have been just the right prod you needed to get moving. Maturity is needed.
Transit MARS square natal Neptune
Aug 27 through Aug 28
Your actions during this period may very well be inspired, but they are not apt to be organized, well-planned or carefully executed. The shortest distance between two points is not likely to be the expected straight line. The present atmosphere is not conducive to logical actions, though you may find plenty of rationalizations for the actions you do take. You will have to make a determined effort if you wish to avoid wasting time and energy. Methods used to accomplish something must depend on intuition and instinct, since there may be little else to go on. Under this influence there is a certain amount of danger due to inattention, or because you may simply be unaware of potentially perilous situations. Laziness is another potential obstacle you may have to overcome.
Transit MERCURY opposed natal Sun
Aug 27 through Aug 28
Your ego is apt to be bruised by opposing forces that you encounter during this period. Ideas and opinions that surround you are not likely to be compatible with your own. Neither are they apt to agree with the type of image you like to project or the personal influence you want to exert. Now what? ďWhatĒ is that you should not waste your efforts trying to get others to change their minds or dismiss their opinions as worthless. No one is going to listen to you. You might try to make some productive use of this unfavorable influence by learning what you can. If you are unable to find an agreeable or productive way of working within a situation or with certain people, be content to work quietly on your own.
08-21-2008, 08:01 PM
When you get a chance, can you please provide a simplified explanation to the group how to read a 45 degree midpoint sort. For example, what does it mean that NEPTUNE and MERCURY show 8 degrees in the sort?
08-21-2008, 08:49 PM
I am confused...... as usual!!
08-21-2008, 08:50 PM
Ok, a 45 degree midpoint sort is a way to easily see the "hard aspects" between the planets and the midpoints.
Midpoints are the middle points between two planets, and where they join together in action when activated by transits to a natal chart, or when they influence planets by aspecting them in a natal chart.
Some astrologers prefer to use 90 degree sorts, as these show the conjunctions, oppositions, and squares to the midpoints. Others will use the semi-squares and sesquiquadrates to the midpoints, believing that these give more information. This latter is a 45 degree sort.
So, if Mercury and Neptune are in one of these aspects, (conjunct/opposition/square/semi-square/sesquiquadrate) they will show up at the same degree in the 45 degree sort, and it is a quick way of knowing that these two are in a hard aspect to one another, and by looking at the midpoints within a one and a half degree orb to Mercury and Neptune, we can get more information about the event or the effect of the event that we are researching.
So, in the chart for Cindy's third phone call to LE, we see that there are many midpoints within orb of Mercury and Neptune.
These are: Ascendant/Midheaven, Sun/Uranus, Jupiter/Pluto, Moon/Jupiter, Node/Midheaven
Did that help? After all the calculations, all we have to do is to put the keywords to the combinations.
Mercury and Neptune...
what keywords come to mind regarding the event? Give it a try!
08-21-2008, 08:55 PM
I only covered the midpoints to Mercury and Neptune in the midpoint sort of Cindy's phone call. There are others that can be examined to give more information about the event.
But, i am tired, and have to go do "nurse" duty for my husband...
08-21-2008, 09:21 PM
Worrying that my explanation isn't good enough!
What a 90 degree sort does is to take all 360 degrees, and divide them by 4, which is 90 degrees. Then each planet is placed on one of the 90 degrees, depending on where it falls in the 360 degrees.
So, any planet (or midpoint) falling within the first 90 degrees of the Zodiac, 0 Aries through 29 Gemini will be put on it's proper degree between 0 and 89(each sign has 30 degrees). Next, any planet or midpoint falling between 0 Cancer and 29 Virgo will be placed in it's proper place between 0 and 89, and the same with Libra through Sagittarius, Capricorn through Pisces.
To do a 45 degree sort, we do exactly the same thing, but sort them all up within 45 degrees, starting at 0 Aries, going through 15 Taurus, then starting all over again at 15 Taurus for another 45 degrees, etc, etc,.
Did I write that well enough to make sense?
It is sort of an astrological shortcut to see all the hard aspects and midpoints in a chart, or in transits to a chart.
08-21-2008, 09:31 PM
Maybe this will help a little?
Here is a website that gives a brief explanation of midpoints, also on the page there is a link to "midpoint picture interpretation" which may help you with keywords.
Since I am posting some educational stuff, this is one of my very favorite astrology websites:
Look around there, you can learn basic astrology and even calculate charts with basic interpretation for free
08-21-2008, 09:34 PM
So what does that mean to those of us that don't understand at your level?
Originally Posted by housemouse
I'm PROUD of you SON! ..........HOOAH!
08-21-2008, 09:36 PM
Housemouse, your explanation is good
I remember the frustration when beginning to learn about these. (I wanted to hit myself with a hammer) Pictures helped some.. So did going around reading everything available.
08-21-2008, 09:37 PM
I see there is a thread started that discusses why this case, and not others, have gathered so much attention.
I do not want to post to that thread because I am not sure it would be welcome, but I will put it here.
It is because the "Aries point" is so involved with this case. And, I am hoping that Netpunian or Soulscape will come along and explain why better than I can.
There are certain events that just get greater attention than others, and there is usually an astrological reason. The Aries point is one, archetypes are another.
This event hits both, in my humble opinion. It also holds up a mirror of what we have become as a culture, and what we will excuse or tolerate in the name of personal freedom to choose.
08-21-2008, 09:52 PM
OK, here is a start.
Originally Posted by miss lisa
Mercury, among other things, rules communication, like telephones.
Neptune, among other things, rules confusion, mystery, deception, a lie, fraud.
Put those two together, in hard aspect, and what do you have?
Now, next let's consider the Ascendant/Midheaven hard aspect to Mercury and Neptune.
we get "exchange of thoughts, emotional suffering, being surrounded by deceitful or bad people
Next, the Sun/Uranus midpoint:
quick acting, sudden flashes of cognition, in isolated cases, disintegration of the body, death
Next, the Jupiter/Pluto midpoint:
a propaganda campaign, the inclination to deceive others, to cheat and seduce people.
Hope this is enough to give you a feel for how midpoints can illuminate a hard aspect between two planets that we otherwise might not notice in looking at the chart.
You see, Mercury and Neptune are in a hard aspect, but it is a sesquiquadrate (they are 135 degrees apart), and not usually noticed as much as oppositions and squares. The midpoints that are also in hard aspect give us more information about what exactly is going on in and around the phone call.
08-21-2008, 10:26 PM
I would agree with this. Pluto has been hovering around the Aries point of late, and I think this is felt at some deep level by humanity. In mythology, Pluto - or Hades- is the god of the underworld who kidnapped the maiden Persephone and made her his bride so she had to stay in Hades for a time. This is every parent's worst nightmare.. So a young girl, our Caylee, who is missing at this time is sure to capture the world's attention. (Don't you wish there would be this much attention for EACH and EVERY missing child?)
Originally Posted by housemouse
When Neptune, god of the seas was hitting this point, there was the great tsunami and Katrina.
08-21-2008, 10:44 PM
Excellent points, Neptunian!
Also, the recent eclipse had Neptune in the cross-hairs. I am not that good on eclipses, but somehow make a link to all the rain in Florida with that eclipse.
I think I read that the effects will be felt for about three months. Am I right?
If so, everyone watch for news events that are full of Neptune kinda stuff...
08-21-2008, 10:50 PM
OK, Housemouse & Neptunian (and other astrologers following this thread), I think we need to keep in mind some of our techniques are a little advanced for many followers of this thread. What we want to accomplish is to show how we work up a chart and how we come to the conclusions we come to, without overwhelming everyone with all the technicalities.
To the beginner astrologers, rusty astrologers and non-astrologers, please keep in mind ANY astrologer --- the 3 of us included --- can misunderstand or misinterpret the message of the stars, because we are humans and not perfect.
I am going to forego midpoints for the time being, first because they are not my specialty and second because Housemouse can explain them way better than me.
Housemouse, I am going to ask you to please create a biwheel showing Caylee's natal chart in the inner ring and this #3 phone call by Cindy to 911. If interested people will print the three charts: (1) Caylee's natal chart posted a few pages back, (2) the #3 phone call chart posted above, and (3) the biwheel showing Caylee's natal as inner ring and the #3 phone call to 911 as the outer ring, and if you keep the charts in front of you, I think it will be easier for you to follow my commentary.
Forensic astrology is complicated and astrologers approach it differently. My approach is to use horary astrology techniques. This is called forensic horary astrology. A horary chart answers a question, such as **Where is my lost cat?** or **Will I get the job I applied for?** A forensic horary chart answers questions such as **Where is the missing person?** ... **Is the missing person dead or alive?** ...**Was the missing person murdered?** .... **Was it an accident?** ... **Was it suicide?** .... **Who is the perp?** and other such questions.
The most frustrating thing about forensic astrology is not having accurately timed charts. I hesitated getting involved with this case for a good 10 days after I heard about it because there was so much conflicting information out there. First it was said Caylee went missing on 6/9, then 6/15. Now supposedly 6/16 at 12:50 pm (supposedly last time George Anthony saw his granddaughter). Then there was the supposed phone call from Jesse Grund stating he HEARD Casey yelling at Caylee and was **100% sure** he heard Caylee in the background on 6/24. Later he retracted that statement saying he couldn't be positive he really heard Caylee during that phone call.
This is all extremely frustrating to the astrologer, who needs accurately timed charts in order to get the real picture.
The big break for astrologers came when OC Sheriffs dept posted the log on the phone calls from Grandma Cindy to the police. According to their web log, Cindy Anthony made the third phone call to LE at 9:41 pm on 7/15/08. This was the call where she told them her granddaughter was missing and that they found the car and it smelled like there was a dead body in the damn car. A Chart cast for this time is called the Police Report. It is the time the fact that a person is missing is phoned into the police.
The next huge break for astrologers came when Greta VS interviewed Cindy for OTR in Cindy's home and Cindy took Greta into Caylee's bedroom. The cameraperson zoomed into Caylee's birth certificate hanging framed on the bedroom wall!!
So now we have two very good timed charts. Another chart that will be worth looking at would be the chart cast for the start of the **flurry of phone calls** made by Casey Anthony, starting at 3:03 pm on 6/16/08 (according to phone records).
But for now, to get started, I would like to look at Caylee's natal, the #3 phone call to LE, and the biwheel showing both. We need to start somewhere, and I think there are clues in the timed event charts as well as Caylee's timed natal.
Later, if you are interested, we can also look at Cindy and Casey's charts but they are not timed which somewhat limits our ability to judge them . Still, there are aspects in those charts that would not change regardless of time of birth, so they are worth looking at.
If anyone has an alternative way to approach this they think makes more sense, please say so. Otherwise, I will start a commentary on what I see in the charts and how I came to my judgements. I will try to keep jargon to a minimum.
For the record, IMO, astrology is not a belief or a religion or even a philosophy --- it is a LANGUAGE. Star language. Astrologers are people who attempt, with varying degrees of success, to understand/ translate star language.
The stars don't lie. People lie, but the stars don't lie. The truth is in there, whether we as astrologers can see it/ understand it/ interpret it correctly or not.
08-21-2008, 10:57 PM
Good explanation, Soulscape! I am eager to see what your horary charts show, and also interested in learning more about the technique!
Will be posting the bi-wheel as soon as I can generate it, and get it up on photobucket!
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