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Thread: Casey's seizure? NEW INFORMATION 2011.09.08

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pensfan View Post
    snipped for emphasis
    On another post earlier, someone stated KC didn't have a driver's license. Is that true? LHM!
    KC did have a license but it is expired by now.

    Click here and go to item 2536 to see her actual license
    OR
    You can perform this search yourself by going to the DMV link and entering her DL number which is revealed in the first doc dump.
    http://tinyurl.com/9lyk5g

    Driver License Check





    As of Jan 17, 2009, at 02:02 PM, driver license number A535XXXXX is VALID. This license is a Class E. Restrictions are (NONE ON RECORD). Endorsements are (NONE ON RECORD). Motorcycle endorsements are (NONE ON RECORD).
    Expiration Date is Mar 19, 2009. You may purchase a driver history via mail or electronically.

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  3. #252
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    Does anyone else find it an odd coincidence that Krystal metions her seizure disorder several times during her interview? And how it affects her memory. And leaves her disorientated.

    We know that GA knew Krystal from pretty early on in the case. We know that GA and CA were communicating to KC through Baez. We know that the twin had contact with KC in jail. We know there was one instance prior to Caylee's murder when JG witnessed a seizure, or something like it. We know that the def didn't fight the release of the jail letters that repeatedly mention seizures at home and in jail....



    Other defendants with sleep disorders or seizure disorders have been aquitted.......I wouldn't put it past JB and Co to try this kind of defense. They're ABSOLUTELY desperate at this point.

    Here's one from africa where a woman was aquitted of murder because she had epilepsy:
    Harare — A MUTOKO woman who used an axe to kill a neighbour she accused of having an affair with her boyfriend and then secretly buried the body, has been acquitted of murder after the High Court found she was epileptic and could not be held responsible for her actions.
    http://allafrica.com/stories/200910210552.html

    Epileptic Man Found Not Guilty of Murder

    Epilepsy is not generally considered a mental illness, but Rondeau's defence was a valid one because the seizures he suffers cause him to go into a psychotic state. He had twelve more seizures while in custody at the Rivière des Prairies Detention Centre and the Philippe Pinel Institute, and each time was violent for about thirty minutes afterwards.
    http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...of_murder.html



    About 40% to 80% of people with TLE also perform repetitive, automatic movements (called automatisms), such as lip smacking and rubbing the hands together.
    We've all noticed KC rubbing her hands like crazy at the court appearances.
    Is it anxiety, or part of the 'proof' they plan to use that she has a seizure disorder for a defense?
    RE: what JG had to say about her 'seizure'.....
    GRUND:
    I woke up, tried to get up. She was kind of draped (INAUDIBLE) her legs were (INAUDIBLE) to me and her head was on the sofa. So I just picked up her legs, moved them to the side while she rested. As I got up, her eyes popped open. It looked like she was just staring straight. And I said her name a couple times. And then she started foaming at the mouth and shaking uncontrollably. And from my limited first aid experience, it looked like a grand mal seizure to me. So I moved a table out of the way, turned her on her side. Her lips turned slightly blue. She continued seizing for probably about, I don`t know, six to eight seconds. When she got done, she let out this sigh, and then her eyes popped back open again and then closed and she was non-responsive.

    UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You keep saying it`s a seizure, but you don`t know for sure it was a seizure, right?

    GRUND: I don`t know for sure if it was grand mal seizure or not. I mean, the things that she did, I don`t know how she would have recreated over again. The lips turning that slight shade of blue, the foaming at the mouth, the way her body was uncontrollably shaking, the non-responsiveness -- I don`t know how she would have been able to fake all of that.

    GRUND: They said she didn`t have syphilis. She wasn`t pregnant. And she didn`t have --she didn`t have epilepsy. They said it -- she claimed to me that it may have been because she drank too many Red Bulls.
    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../22/ng.01.html

    Can an EEG be Normal Even if the Person Has Epilepsy?

    Because an EEG usually records the brain activity occurring between seizures, or interictal activity ("ictal" activity refers to a seizure), a person with epilepsy may have a normal EEG. Just as people with epilepsy behave normally most of the time (when the duration and frequency of seizures is compared to all the time in a given month, for instance), so is the EEG normal much of the time. Also, areas of abnormality may go undetected by the EEG if the abnormality arises deep in the brain (e.g., deep in the temporal lobe), "outside the reach" of the electrodes on the scalp, or if the volume of brain affected is too small to generate abnormal waves of sufficient size to be detected by the electrodes. To increase the chances of finding an abnormality on the EEG, it can be recorded in various circumstances:

    •During both wakefulness and sleep (sometimes a sleeping pill can be used)
    •After sleep deprivation (lack of sleep can cause epilepsy waves on the EEG)
    •With 3 to 5 minutes of deep breathing (hyperventilation)
    •With flashing lights (photic stimulation)
    •With special electrodes
    •For prolonged periods (ambulatory and video EEG)
    http://www.nyuepilepsy.org/cec/diagn..._overview.html

    So basically even if KC had a gazillion tests done and they proved negative for
    seizures, the def can still claim she has epilepsy because she displays the symptoms, but the EEG just hasn't been able to pick it up.

    Also, I can see both KC and her family content with this kind of defense rather than insanity or plain old ' sociopathic baby killer' because it takes the responsibility away from KC.

    It just feels like a huge set up to me.
    JMO
    Last edited by butwhatif?; 04-08-2010 at 03:03 AM.

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  5. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by butwhatif? View Post

    It just feels like a huge set up to me.
    JMO

    Respectfully snipped-Yes, somethin's hinky. JG believes he really did witness a grand mal seizure, as you can hear on his 911 call. However, in addition to the Anthonys stating that there were no signs of anything wrong, I believe Lt. Unser said that KC was not a frequent guest at the infirmary, leading me to believe there were no seizures during the day.
    Now, if KC were to have sleep related seizures (good read here :http://www.epilepsy.com/articles/ar_1063155671), wouldn't RM, TL and any of the guys that she slept with (I mean sleeping, not snogging) have noticed these seizures?
    Sorry if this has been written, haven't gotten all the way through this thread.

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  7. #254
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    But isn't she under constant observation? Who other than Casey has witnessed one of these sleep 'seizures'? I'm betting no one..

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  9. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jayla View Post
    Respectfully snipped-Yes, somethin's hinky. JG believes he really did witness a grand mal seizure, as you can hear on his 911 call. However, in addition to the Anthonys stating that there were no signs of anything wrong, I believe Lt. Unser said that KC was not a frequent guest at the infirmary, leading me to believe there were no seizures during the day.
    Now, if KC were to have sleep related seizures (good read here :http://www.epilepsy.com/articles/ar_1063155671), wouldn't RM, TL and any of the guys that she slept with (I mean sleeping, not snogging) have noticed these seizures?
    Sorry if this has been written, haven't gotten all the way through this thread.
    Well TL said she had what appeared to be nightmares while she was staying with him after Caylee was MIA. It prob was a nightmare, but the defence can claim that this could possibly have been a nocturnal seizure.

    And we have to remember that not all seizures are even visible to people around the person having the seizure. Sometimes it very small discreet things during wakefullness, like zoning out, or sensing a smell, halos around lights lip smacking, feeling of impending doom, or euphoria etc.

    You can have both nocturnal seizures and day time seizures- and they dont always lead to Grand mal seizures...People notice a grand mal seizure, but not so much with the other varieties.

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  11. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by butwhatif? View Post
    Well TL said she had what appeared to be nightmares while she was staying with him after Caylee was MIA. It prob was a nightmare, but the defence can claim that this could possibly have been a nocturnal seizure.

    And we have to remember that not all seizures are even visible to people around the person having the seizure. Sometimes it very small discreet things during wakefullness, like zoning out, or sensing a smell, halos around lights lip smacking, feeling of impending doom, or euphoria etc.

    You can have both nocturnal seizures and day time seizures- and they dont always lead to Grand mal seizures...People notice a grand mal seizure, but not so much with the other varieties.
    But if it's a very subtle thing in her sleep ( ha) and she wakes up in her normal state of health, then she can hardly claim that it affects her behavior, which is what it sounds like she is angling for.

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  13. #257
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    Seizure disorders are a funny thing. You cannot always capture "abnormal" activity. I can also tell you that seizures can be very unique to each person. My sons seizures are not like anyone else's necessarily and a lot has to do with where they originate.

    Don't forget there are many kinds of seizures and they can be extremely subtle.

    Not guessing if she does or doesn't, we just don't have enough info.

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  15. #258
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    I forgot about the passage with Jesse. The part that makes it seem real to me is the blue lips. My son gets that as his breathing stops for about one minute during his grand mals ot tonic-clonic seizures.

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  17. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by MD MOMMY View Post
    Here is a short list for example..
    Source:http://www.hmc.psu.edu/healthinfo/s/seizures.htm

    Conditions that can cause seizures include high fever; brain infections, such as AIDS, malaria, meningitis, rabies, tetanus, and viral encephalitis; hypoparathyroidism; high levels of sugar or sodium in the blood; low levels of sugar, calcium, magnesium, or sodium in the blood; kidney or liver failure; phenylketonuria; insufficient oxygen to the brain; damage to brain tissue, such as from a brain tumor, head injury, intracranial hemorrhage, or stroke; and illnesses such as eclampsia, hypertensive encephalopathy, or lupus.

    Seizures can also be caused by abuse of alcohol, amphetamines, tranquilizers, or cocaine; a reaction to a prescription drug; or exposure to toxic substances, such as lead or strychnine. Seizures can be triggered by flashing lights, video games, repetitive sounds, lack of sleep, stress, cigarette smoking, or hormonal changes during the menstrual cycle.
    Why is KC not seeking medical treatment in jail if she if having seizures? I don't get it. I HATE doctors (b/c I've had to spend too much time in hospital) but I know that there are some things I just have to bite the bullet and go see the doc for. If I were having seizures, I'd be scared **itless! And I'd go to the doctor! I don't get it. Are jail docs more terrible than regular docs or what?
    moo
    Rest in Peace Sweet Caylee

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  19. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBean View Post
    Seizure disorders are a funny thing. You cannot always capture "abnormal" activity. I can also tell you that seizures can be very unique to each person. My sons seizures are not like anyone else's necessarily and a lot has to do with where they originate.

    Don't forget there are many kinds of seizures and they can be extremely subtle.

    Not guessing if she does or doesn't, we just don't have enough info.
    So what it boils down to is that without documented evidence, either by EEG, CT/MRI, or the observation of personnel, that any seizure focus exists, or seizure like activity has been observed, we have to take Casey's word for it?

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  21. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBean View Post
    Seizure disorders are a funny thing. You cannot always capture "abnormal" activity. I can also tell you that seizures can be very unique to each person. My sons seizures are not like anyone else's necessarily and a lot has to do with where they originate.

    Don't forget there are many kinds of seizures and they can be extremely subtle.

    Not guessing if she does or doesn't, we just don't have enough info.
    JBean, I didn't realize this thread was 11 pages long so if this has been brought up--SiA.

    Have you seen those dogs that are trained to alert right before a person is going to have a seizure? I saw it on some documentary tv show....quite amazing. And I would think quite valuable to those who have seizures.

    moo
    Rest in Peace Sweet Caylee

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  23. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZsaZsa View Post
    So what it boils down to is that without documented evidence, either by EEG, CT/MRI, or the observation of personnel, that any seizure focus exists, or seizure like activity has been observed, we have to take Casey's word for it?
    Well that would be true of anything. If KC said she had cancer we would have to take her word for it if we did not have documented evidence.
    I think the report by Jesse is reasonable for the grand mal seizure. As far as any other activity, if the one witnessed by JG is accurate it would not be surprising to see she suffers from other types of seizures as well.
    However, if you mean to actually use this disorder within her defense, it could and would be documented and we wouldn't just take her word for it.

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  25. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by doogiesgirl View Post
    JBean, I didn't realize this thread was 11 pages long so if this has been brought up--SiA.

    Have you seen those dogs that are trained to alert right before a person is going to have a seizure? I saw it on some documentary tv show....quite amazing. And I would think quite valuable to those who have seizures.

    moo
    Oh yes they are awesome. Different dogs can help before and/or after a seizure.

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  27. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZsaZsa View Post
    But if it's a very subtle thing in her sleep ( ha) and she wakes up in her normal state of health, then she can hardly claim that it affects her behavior, which is what it sounds like she is angling for.
    Good God....I never even thought of that! If she is asleep when they happen..how the heck does she know what's happened?! Geesh!
    Rest in Peace Sweet Caylee

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  29. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBean View Post
    Oh yes they are awesome. Different dogs can help before and/or after a seizure.
    I would imagine they are difficult to come by. They probably only let those who have seizures very frequently have them. Right?
    Rest in Peace Sweet Caylee

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  31. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZsaZsa View Post
    But if it's a very subtle thing in her sleep ( ha) and she wakes up in her normal state of health, then she can hardly claim that it affects her behavior, which is what it sounds like she is angling for.
    From my understanding it's the wakeful seizures that mostly go unnoticed for simple partial seizures
    And even if a a seizure only lasted a few seconds or minutes, the symptoms can go on for days. .... disorientation, memory issues, irritability, behavioural changes- the list is endless.

    But 31 days? Not buying it- They might try to sell it out of desperation, but I doubt that any Jury would fall for it.

    But I do believe they will try.

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  33. #267
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    Being a seizure sufferer myself I believe Casey likely does suffer from them given the mention of her abnormal menstrual period (there is a direct link between female epileptics and polycystic ovarian syndrome), her night sweats, nightmares, mood swings and behaviour in general, perceived lying and blatant lying, sleep pattern, argh, too many reasons to list! Im sure the USA is more advanced than here in Australia, epilepsy is grossly misunderstood here and often difficult to diagnose. Unless you have ever experienced the terror of having a seizure or an aura or episode of altered reality or memory loss as the result of a seizure, heck even the basic fuzzy nauseated feeling afterward or the lingering confusion, it can be difficult to understand what its truly like. Most people assume you jerk around on the ground a bit, end of story. If Casey has this condition and hasn't been properly diagnosed, treated and managed ANYTHING could have happened to poor little Caylee and even Casey herself probably wouldn't know imo.

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  35. #268
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    I still wonder of what's going on with her lately is in fact nightmares.


    but so far as the seizure JG witnessed - I guess no one knows all possible causes and it is not always epilepsy. when I was 8 I had several grand mal seizures one day including the last one in the dr's office and I was in hospital for 8 days for observation and test after test which showed nothing and it never ever happened again.

    (FWIW I didnt kill anyone accidentally amidst them either )

    what role does sleep deprivation play? I was wondering since we learned her phone use was nearly 24/7 what possible role sleep deprivation played in any of this and by her letters she still appears to not sleep normally.

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  37. #269
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    I have experienced a severe seizure and had no recollection of what occurred. The experience took hours according to my husband who witnessed it. I had no memory of it whatsoever. EEG detected nothing. So I can believe KC has had one before (the JG incident) but it could have been isolated and environmentally triggered. KC appears to be the type of individual who thrives on the attention of drama. She invents disorders like GA's stroke, it provides her with an excuse to avoid something she doesn't want to do and it garners her sympathy (meunchousen by proxy?). Because of this I have to doubt anything KC says about her medical condition(s) and her motives behind claiming to have them. Some of her behaviors seem like night terrors......I really hope she is experiencing night terrors! (sorry, evil of me)

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  39. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiff07 View Post
    Being a seizure sufferer myself I believe Casey likely does suffer from them given the mention of her abnormal menstrual period (there is a direct link between female epileptics and polycystic ovarian syndrome), her night sweats, nightmares, mood swings and behaviour in general, perceived lying and blatant lying, sleep pattern, argh, too many reasons to list! Im sure the USA is more advanced than here in Australia, epilepsy is grossly misunderstood here and often difficult to diagnose. Unless you have ever experienced the terror of having a seizure or an aura or episode of altered reality or memory loss as the result of a seizure, heck even the basic fuzzy nauseated feeling afterward or the lingering confusion, it can be difficult to understand what its truly like. Most people assume you jerk around on the ground a bit, end of story. If Casey has this condition and hasn't been properly diagnosed, treated and managed ANYTHING could have happened to poor little Caylee and even Casey herself probably wouldn't know imo.
    BBM: ITA. Hormonal imbalance can manifest horrific physical, mental and emotional problems. Usually something foreign to one's environment (new drugs, new location, unusual food, unusual stress) "triggers" an event. Occasionally the result is a seizure....occasionally, okay, rarely....and I do believe a person could kill while suffering the effects of a seizure and/or aura etc., but to engage in a cover-up following an accidental killing during a seizure???? Not buying it for one minute and I don't think the SA will leave that base uncovered...

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  41. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gma Kat View Post
    BBM: ITA. Hormonal imbalance can manifest horrific physical, mental and emotional problems. Usually something foreign to one's environment (new drugs, new location, unusual food, unusual stress) "triggers" an event. Occasionally the result is a seizure....occasionally, okay, rarely....and I do believe a person could kill while suffering the effects of a seizure and/or aura etc., but to engage in a cover-up following an accidental killing during a seizure???? Not buying it for one minute and I don't think the SA will leave that base uncovered...
    For female seizure sufferers the menstrual cycle exacerbates seizure activity, progesterone is the cause. Lots of things can trigger events, stress, sleep deprivation, rushing around, skipping meals to name but a few. I completely agree with your point about not buying a cover up following an accidental killing, I'd like to know though if Casey has even been diagnosed with having seizures?

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  43. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBean View Post
    Seizure disorders are a funny thing. You cannot always capture "abnormal" activity. I can also tell you that seizures can be very unique to each person. My sons seizures are not like anyone else's necessarily and a lot has to do with where they originate.

    Don't forget there are many kinds of seizures and they can be extremely subtle.

    Not guessing if she does or doesn't, we just don't have enough info.
    Thanks, and I see you are very right...I just pulled out my ICD-9 index (medical coding book), and the listings for the diagnoses of seizures takes up a whole page of small font. Epilepsy, stroke and heart disease appear to be some underlying causes, all different levels of care that would follow these diagnoses.
    Last edited by Just Jayla; 04-08-2010 at 08:41 PM.

  44. #273
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    Just to add my 2cents in here: The main problem here about Did Casey have a seizure or Is she faking, is that even she could not tell you for sure. As some one has noted above, every seizure is unique to that person. Although they seem to be lumped into a few names. I believe that JG did see her have that seizure. There is NO way someone can fake blue lips & that type of shaking. Casey would have to be one HELL of an actress to do that.

    My husband has what they call Partial Complex seizures. It did not come forward until our late 20's(we have lived with it for 15 years) & it took us many years to get it pinpointed to this. Just one day at work he had slopped down and looked straight ahead like a zombie. Luckily a co-worker had a son who lived with Grand Mals or I would have NEVER known it was a seizure. I would have always thought he was just "ignoring me". lol

    Until we found the correct medicine combo, we went through many many EEG's (and a few drs) to see if we could pinpoint it. I went through many years of him just seizing on a whim. Because Seizures are tricky, it is hard to get them diagnosed right off the bat. And with Casey in jail right now, they are not going to do this testing unless she is flat out showing hard signs.

    If so, wouldn't it be told to the media by now?

    To this day my husband has no idea he has had a seizure. He looses 4 seconds of his life each time. When he is awake his symptoms are lip smacking, pulling air in between his teeth, pulling an imaginary thread from his hand, staring straight ahead like a zombie (the look gives you killing cold chills inside.), turns up the TV and then yells at me to turn it up more or flips through the channels in fast mode. He has even pulled out his cell phone and dialed a contact. Leaving me to almost fight with him to give me the phone so I can tell the person to ignore this call. When he comes back to my world, he rubs his nose and asks if we have anything good to eat.


    I really hope they do not use this as their defense for those who really suffer with Epilepsy every day. I notice Casey nervously rubbing her hands and looking forward, but I have yet to get that cold chilling feeling from her "seizure like" stares.

    However, like stated before...everyone is unique.
    This has been imho, of course.

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  46. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2goldfish View Post
    I still wonder of what's going on with her lately is in fact nightmares.


    but so far as the seizure JG witnessed - I guess no one knows all possible causes and it is not always epilepsy. when I was 8 I had several grand mal seizures one day including the last one in the dr's office and I was in hospital for 8 days for observation and test after test which showed nothing and it never ever happened again.

    (FWIW I didnt kill anyone accidentally amidst them either )

    what role does sleep deprivation play? I was wondering since we learned her phone use was nearly 24/7 what possible role sleep deprivation played in any of this and by her letters she still appears to not sleep normally.
    BBM-
    Some studies show that sleep deprivation can induce seizures, but the newer ones are saying there isn't as much of a link as they first thought.
    So the jury is still out on this one.
    Last edited by JBean; 04-08-2010 at 10:06 PM. Reason: fix broken quote

  47. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by doogiesgirl View Post
    Why is KC not seeking medical treatment in jail if she if having seizures? I don't get it. I HATE doctors (b/c I've had to spend too much time in hospital) but I know that there are some things I just have to bite the bullet and go see the doc for. If I were having seizures, I'd be scared **itless! And I'd go to the doctor! I don't get it. Are jail docs more terrible than regular docs or what?
    moo
    In her letters she says that she wants to get checked for breast cancer (hasn't she heard of self exams?) and cervical cancer. But she says somethng along the lines of 'NO thanks! I don't need that right now.'

    She also mentioned her med ins ran out 'last year'.... Do you even need medical insurance when your an inmate? I thought the tax-payers footed the bill for that one.

    ETA:
    Heres the direct quote from the letters:
    I've been thinking about getting tested for breast cancer and having them check the cell count on the pre-cervical cancer, but I have a feeling that will constitute a trip to the hospital. NO thanks. Not right now.
    It sucks not having any health insurance- mine expired at the end of the year. What prompted my worry even before seeing that article was my extreme irregularity with my period: stopping a month, bleeding non-stop for weeks, then nothing for a couple of weeks. NO matter how much I pray against it, I'm still scared out of my whits that I'll make it through all of this and then have to jump into cancer treatments. Sorry. One of those days. :-(

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