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Thread: ID - Lonnie Jones, murdered at Orofino "Lumberjack Days", 1951

  1. #526
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    [=Peter Brendt;8027272]On the other hand, the high organized ones are not so much harder to catch than the low organized ones. The difference is only, you have to look closer at the details ... wait, wasn't there an FBI white book lately ...
    A parole review date is set for July 21, 2012 for Fred Howard Coffey.

    Coffey was convicted of the murder of 10 yr old Amanda Marie Ray, NC. He admitted to molesting 300 children.

    Please write a letter on behalf of Amanda.

    Suspect in the murders of:
    5 yr old Neely Smith, NC
    14 yr old Kathy Lynn Beatty, MD
    8 yr old Travis Shane King, VA

    Possibly connected to the disappearances of:
    14 Yr old Tracy Anne King, PA
    11 yr old Sheila and 13 yr old Katherine Lyons, MD
    15 yr old Carolyn Majane, NJ



    Write to:
    Chairman Charles L. Mann Sr.
    NC Post Release Supervision & Parole Commission
    P.O. Box 29540
    Raleigh, NC 27626-0540
    RE: Fred Howard Coffey, DOC# 0081135
    or send an email to parole@doc.state.nc.us
    http://justice4amanda.tripod.com/

  2. #527
    clueless is offline "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
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    Bumping for Lonnie.
    Clue


    Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities.
    “The key to change… is to let go of fear.” – Rosanne Cash

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  4. #528
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    Just a note to think on....You didn`t have to attend the movie to buy popcorn in those days.People would buy treats & then wait til the movie was over to catch their ride or possible ride w/whoever was going their way.It was still common practice w/kids when I was a teenger, as there were few cars.

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  6. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by babylou View Post
    Just a note to think on....You didn`t have to attend the movie to buy popcorn in those days.People would buy treats & then wait til the movie was over to catch their ride or possible ride w/whoever was going their way.It was still common practice w/kids when I was a teenger, as there were few cars.
    Yeah, he didn't have to, But it is intriguing to think, he was there because it would explain, why he wasn't seen by anybody in that time gap. And of course, he noticed earlier that he may intended to ho to a movie. But then, you're maybe right and the sheriffs couldn't find anybody who saw him simply by asking on the fair grounds instead asking the teenagers.
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

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  8. #530
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    anyone still on this case?

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  10. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psalm 94 View Post
    anyone still on this case?
    Yup! Contacted the Clearwater Co. Sheriff's Department and they promised to have a look at the old picture's. But then July 4th came in the way, so no results yet.
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

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  12. #532
    clueless is offline "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
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    Bumping to see if Peter has heard back about the pictures yet. Thanks to everyone for the amazing sleuthing. Lonnie deserves justice.
    Clue


    Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities.
    “The key to change… is to let go of fear.” – Rosanne Cash

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  14. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by clueless View Post


    Bumping to see if Peter has heard back about the pictures yet. Thanks to everyone for the amazing sleuthing. Lonnie deserves justice.
    Well, those are sixty year old pictures and while I am not at liberty to discuss all, that is spoken currently between me and any LE agency (not only Clearwater County, but all in all cases, I follow), I can say that much: The picture quality is lousy! So it's not done by merely looking at them, that is inconclusive. But there are other ways.
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

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  16. #534
    clueless is offline "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
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    I, for one, have no desire or need to see the pictures. I can imagine how graphic they would be. I just hope to see some progress in the case.

    Thank you Peter for all your hard work!
    Clue


    Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities.
    “The key to change… is to let go of fear.” – Rosanne Cash

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  18. #535
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    Sure look like yourall are on the right track.

    Just need a little break in crime so local LE have little extra time to dig a little bit deeper into this case.

    Be nice see yourall's name on front page of local paper under 61 year old Case Is Sloved..

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  20. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv171 View Post
    Sure look like yourall are on the right track.

    Just need a little break in crime so local LE have little extra time to dig a little bit deeper into this case.

    Be nice see yourall's name on front page of local paper under 61 year old Case Is Sloved..
    I'm afraid, this will take a little bit longer. But certainly, we got some motion in the case again.
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

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  22. #537
    clueless is offline "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
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    Just wondering if anything was going on for this case. It breaks my heart that Lonnie had to walk so far to get home that night. So sad that he was basically raising himself.
    Clue


    Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities.
    “The key to change… is to let go of fear.” – Rosanne Cash

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  24. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by clueless View Post


    Just wondering if anything was going on for this case. It breaks my heart that Lonnie had to walk so far to get home that night. So sad that he was basically raising himself.
    Yes, there are things going on. Alas nothing, that can be posted in a public forum. Sorry.
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

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  26. #539
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    Any updates that CAN be posted?

  27. #540
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    We're down to one prime suspect, but all ways to get a forensic firm tie are blocked by the fact, the case is officially still open and thus, evidence can't be released. And there are still some doubts, how much evidence is left in the police locker anyway, since it appears before 1968 at least, a lot of people with direct connections to the case had access. In other words, we are working on it, but it will take time for example to reconstruct the moves of a man in 1951 and admittedly, it will also cost some money to get some old court documents lets call it "de-dusted".
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

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  29. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Brendt View Post
    Now I get it! Not enough coffee, I guess. Cunningham was local enough to could have known the place. And looking for work at the fair doesn't mean Lonnie got work but he could have come in contact. Or, given as near places were to each other, Cunningham, working at the fair, got himself a coffee break where Lonnie had his burger ... or my thoughts circle too much about coffee.

    About contact to LE: It has sometimes advantages to be a published writer, even most books are not in English. One can hint to work on a book and then "... it's the decision of you, my dear LE officer to look like a knee jerk or a good upright sheriff in this book. And now lets talk ..." And seriously, there is always a certain danger, I write a book or use the story as part in one, so feel free to refer to me and our (Diane and mine) website, if you want to apply a little pressure with that.

    Peter
    BBM It was my thought, as well, that presenting to LE in the guise of writing a book might make for an easier intro and be a way to get more information. Have advertisements/personal ads been placed in the areas surrounding where Lonnie was killed to gather information?

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  30. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacie Estes View Post
    BBM It was my thought, as well, that presenting to LE in the guise of writing a book might make for an easier intro and be a way to get more information. Have advertisements/personal ads been placed in the areas surrounding where Lonnie was killed to gather information?
    I rarely do, what you had quoted in your post, but yes, it sometimes helps. However, I will definitively write no book about that case. And the ad-operation wouldn't help this time either because the few people still alive are spread out over all the nation and it's finding them one by one. Which is obviously very time consuming. So I beg for more patience, we, my friends and I (some here, some not) do what we can.

    Peter
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

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  32. #543
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    Holy cow. There's a real suspect now?

    Hi, everyone, great to catch up on all the good work you guys have been doing here - wonderful to see Lonnie as the featured case, too -- and WOW, excellent work on the suspects.

    I want to see this solved, so badly. Or at least given some investigation time, with modern technology and all. For Lonnie's sake, and at this point ours, as well, I think.. I feel weirdly connected to this poor little guy.

    I've had a lot going on this year, but thankfully I have some time to turn back toward these cold cases now. I'll sppend tonight reading through all these pages of new info, thoughts and links and get back to it tomorrow, I hope.

    Now.. why are the names 'Walter and Elsie' tripping my wires here? I really need to find all my notes on this case..

    Good work, anyway, everyone.

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  34. #544
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    This is FANTASTIC news.

    I find myself gravitating towards the old, cold cases because it really bothers me that there are so many unsolved cases out there, so many people still missing, 50, 100 years later. I don't want them to be forgotten.

    If it takes 5 years to do it right, then I think Lonnie can wait another 5. He's already been waiting for 60 years. I hope everything works out and that his murderer is brought to justice!

    Everything is MOO and I am always willing to be wrong!


    October 2013 marked 60 years since Evelyn Hartley's violent kidnapping while babysitting.

    We need fresh eyes in the case - please visit us in
    Evelyn's thread!

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  36. #545
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    Relax, please. Most things happen outside of Websleuths currently and things are not mellowed enough yet to go in details in a public accessible forum. However, if someone feels the urge to volunteer, I take it my pm is known.

    PB
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  37. #546
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    Cheers, PB -- but I'm plenty relaxed, thanks all the same. Just glad to be back here and catching up on what-all has been going on.

    Not sure what you mean by "most things happen outside of Websleuths" - you mean, regarding Lonnie's case?

    And volunteer .. for what? I am happy to donate time, if I can be of use to something like this.

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  39. #547
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    Yes, I don't think we're getting overly excited, I think we are all realistic here with how long these types of things can take. Just happy to see something happen in a cold case.

    Everything is MOO and I am always willing to be wrong!


    October 2013 marked 60 years since Evelyn Hartley's violent kidnapping while babysitting.

    We need fresh eyes in the case - please visit us in
    Evelyn's thread!

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  41. #548
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    Being as it may that people are working the case outside of WS, I don't want this thread to die off for lack of discussion.

    Someone out there might read this, and remember something. Someone might read this and have a direct way to help in identifying the perp.

    So, I'll still be posting my thoughts on those aspects we have already discussed, as well as any new info I stumble on.. Reviewing all of what has been posted here, there's two things that stick out very clearly in my mind right now:

    -- The killer was done with Lonnie by the time he took his victim to that roadside area.

    He cut Lonnie a few feet off the road (says the massive blood patch there), then took him down the slope where Lonnie bled out (says the other patch of blood, maybe his throat was cut there, but it seems to me there'd be another, initial injury, perhaps a smaller cut that shed the blood further up the slope) and then was found. Lonnie was alive when he got out of the killer's vehicle. He was alive, and received a wound not far from the car. This says to me that Lonnie was not taken there to be abused or molested, he was taken there to die, to be executed and disposed of - because whatever the reason this person took Lonnie off the road, the killer was with done him by the time he pulled over into that area.

    I don't think the fatal attack came from a struggle, or the killer fearing Lonnie would get away. His victim was a small, tired and scared boy who was possibly in restraints. Lonnie had signs of struggle on him - his hands, raw at the fingertips. Lonnie struggled, and I think he was then restrained, and it seems to me this wasn't done by the side of the road - why let a boy out of your vehicle, if there was a chance he'd run away? How did the killer deal with a boy who would struggle, and manage to drive at the same time?

    Because he was killed just a few feet from the road, I find it more logical to think of this as the 'execution site' than a place to molest Lonnie (and seeing as there's a hunk of 'missing time' for Lonnie, this seems even more likely IMO). The placement of his body is something I'd like to put more thought to, in general.

    The killer didn't care about the body being found. He made little to no attempt to conceal the body, in a wooded area where at least he could have easily and in no time at all dragged a ton of branches over it if he wanted it concealed. He didn't care if someone happened on Lonnie's remains, and it seems to me that smacks of confidence in not being caught (which he wasn't), and no remorse at all for his crime. Maybe, he -wanted- the body found...

    --- Lonnie's hands were in that 'grotesque position' that seems like his hands were tied behind his back at some stage prior to death but then were untied some hours after he died. It's hard to see a limp body staying in that position very long. Gravity, lax muscle.. his hands would not have retained that position if they were left to dangle free. Or at least, it's so unlikely as to seem impossible.

    So why did they stay that way? My speculation is that Lonnie was bound, killed.. and the killer thought later that the bindings might ID him in some way, so came back for them -- after Lonnie went into rigor mortis, so his hands retained the position in which they were tied, which would indeed look 'grotesque' without any bindings there to provide a reason as to how and why they were all bent up like that.

    So I think the killer was either local, or had a reason to be staying in the area for a while. A transient would probably not spare the time to come all the way back to untie those bindings, and maybe wouldn't care if what he left behind was something that might be recognised as belonging specifically (or by close association) to -him-.

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  43. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausgirl View Post
    Being as it may that people are working the case outside of WS, I don't want this thread to die off for lack of discussion.

    Someone out there might read this, and remember something. Someone might read this and have a direct way to help in identifying the perp.

    So, I'll still be posting my thoughts on those aspects we have already discussed, as well as any new info I stumble on.. Reviewing all of what has been posted here, there's two things that stick out very clearly in my mind right now:

    -- The killer was done with Lonnie by the time he took his victim to that roadside area.

    He cut Lonnie a few feet off the road (says the massive blood patch there), then took him down the slope where Lonnie bled out (says the other patch of blood, maybe his throat was cut there, but it seems to me there'd be another, initial injury, perhaps a smaller cut that shed the blood further up the slope) and then was found. Lonnie was alive when he got out of the killer's vehicle. He was alive, and received a wound not far from the car. This says to me that Lonnie was not taken there to be abused or molested, he was taken there to die, to be executed and disposed of - because whatever the reason this person took Lonnie off the road, the killer was with done him by the time he pulled over into that area.

    I don't think the fatal attack came from a struggle, or the killer fearing Lonnie would get away. His victim was a small, tired and scared boy who was possibly in restraints. Lonnie had signs of struggle on him - his hands, raw at the fingertips. Lonnie struggled, and I think he was then restrained, and it seems to me this wasn't done by the side of the road - why let a boy out of your vehicle, if there was a chance he'd run away? How did the killer deal with a boy who would struggle, and manage to drive at the same time?

    Because he was killed just a few feet from the road, I find it more logical to think of this as the 'execution site' than a place to molest Lonnie (and seeing as there's a hunk of 'missing time' for Lonnie, this seems even more likely IMO). The placement of his body is something I'd like to put more thought to, in general.

    The killer didn't care about the body being found. He made little to no attempt to conceal the body, in a wooded area where at least he could have easily and in no time at all dragged a ton of branches over it if he wanted it concealed. He didn't care if someone happened on Lonnie's remains, and it seems to me that smacks of confidence in not being caught (which he wasn't), and no remorse at all for his crime. Maybe, he -wanted- the body found...

    --- Lonnie's hands were in that 'grotesque position' that seems like his hands were tied behind his back at some stage prior to death but then were untied some hours after he died. It's hard to see a limp body staying in that position very long. Gravity, lax muscle.. his hands would not have retained that position if they were left to dangle free. Or at least, it's so unlikely as to seem impossible.

    So why did they stay that way? My speculation is that Lonnie was bound, killed.. and the killer thought later that the bindings might ID him in some way, so came back for them -- after Lonnie went into rigor mortis, so his hands retained the position in which they were tied, which would indeed look 'grotesque' without any bindings there to provide a reason as to how and why they were all bent up like that.

    So I think the killer was either local, or had a reason to be staying in the area for a while. A transient would probably not spare the time to come all the way back to untie those bindings, and maybe wouldn't care if what he left behind was something that might be recognised as belonging specifically (or by close association) to -him-.
    EXCELLENT POST. Very well thought out and explained.

    I agree that he was probably molested and tortured earlier. But when? Because didnt the high school boys drop him off at midnight? I have to go back and look.
    I posted the timeline below.

    So that would mean he was picked up after 12:30 and taken somewhere else to be molested/bound/tortured until he was taken to the dump site. I wonder where he was taken?

    eta:

    Later Two teenagers from the small town of Kamiah 30 miles east of Orofino testified that they picked Lonnie up at about 12:30 that night standing at the end of the bridge that connects Orofino to Highway 12 on the other side of the Clearwater River and gave him a ride seven miles east to the tiny sleeping community of Greer that sits at the very bottom of the steep and winding Greer Grade leading to his home in Weippe.
    There they left him.
    He was never seen alive again.
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

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  45. #550
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    You're right there, katydid, about Lonnie being dropped off at 12.30-ish, which is the last time anyone saw him alive. The boys (with their girlfriends in the car) said he looked shaken up, but that he calmed down after a while.

    Lonnie left the fair late, as far as we can tell. He was picked up, looking 'shaken'.. there's a chance he had some contact with the killer prior to being abducted. Maybe he was just panicking about being out that late, worried about walking in the dark -- but I somehow think a kid who had to do for himself, who was allowed to stay at the fair without supervision to that hour, whose carers weren't caring enough to go looking for him that night.. somehow I think Lonnie was hardly an overly protected, easily frightened sort of child and was used to getting around by himself and being alone at all hours. So I'm inclined to believe that -someone- shook him up, so much so that a bunch of teenagers would notice right away that he was in a bad way when they picked him up.

    He didn't look like he'd been tortured or beaten or anything.. just scared. So I am thinking, whatever injuries he had happened after he got out of the teenager's car.

    Now, his body still had undigested food in it when he was discovered. This tells me he wasn't kept for all that long before he was killed.

    But -- and this is what doesn't make sense to me -- why pick up a child and take him directly to the kill site, and then kill him right away? If this monster WAS a sexual predator, he'd likely have kept Lonnie for a time (in his vehicle, or another site) before killing him. However, if he -did- keep Lonnie, it was not for very long.

    Food doesn't take long to pass through the stomach - all the hard digestive work is done in the intestines, which takes a few more hours. If food was found in Lonnie's stomach, and it's fair-type food, then Lonnie ate it not long before his death. Lonnie died soon after he left the fairgrounds, or that fairground type food he ate would have been more than partially digested.

    And here, I have to wonder -- if the killer had attacked Lonnie in any truly horrible way prior to his being picked up by those teens, would Lonnie have been somewhat more than just 'shaken up'? Would he have become more relaxed at all, once he was in that carful of teenagers? I kind of doubt it. And the teens would have noticed something like bloody fingertips, surely. So I am thinking, Lonnie was visibly scared but not totally terrified at 12.30

    Forgive this personal interjection -- but this part gives me total chills, having been myself picked up hitchhiking by the brother of a well known serial killer who was suspected of being an accessory. I had the wits scared out of me before he let me out of his car (which had no inside door handles, except his own) - making sure I knew this was 'special treatment' and he was doing me a huge favour , letting me go like that .. the next ride I took - and keep in mind that I was 18, and that I was not molested or harmed in any way, only scared stupid, and that I did not know at the time that this guy was the brother of a serial killer - the next ride I took, I was visibly a bit more than "shaken", I was near hysterical. The teens who picked me up let me out at their turn-off (like Lonnie was let out) and there I was .. back on the road, not knowing if that car had been followed, no rides in sight, only open road and cane fields.. I say all this because it would have been so easy for that guy to follow and find me, if he changed his mind and wanted a victim. And because I think if Lonnie had been molested already, he would not have 'calmed down' so much that the teens would notice it.

    It's possible Lonnie spent time with a molester at the fair or shortly after he left the fairground (this time before 12.30 is the missing hunk of time I was talking about), got scared, took off, got away from him, and tried to hitch-hike home .. and was caught again?

    Or the killer wasn't a child molester at all, and had another motive for executing Lonnie like that .. and took the time to make it look like Lonnie was the victim of a transient pedo.

    I think the police were very cagey about announcing the actual state of Lonnie's body. One examiner said for sure he was not raped. But the papers make it very clear the police considered this a 'sexual crime'. It's really important, this issue of whether or not Lonnie was molested sexually - keeping in mind that of course, anal penetration is not the only way to molest a child. If he was molested at all, there might have been other signs.

    If not, then things take a whole different slant, here...
    Last edited by Ausgirl; 09-30-2012 at 11:46 PM.

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