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  1. #46
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    I agree that the investigation of the maggots would also be helpful in determining alot of specifics important to the death.

    This is another good link with alot of explanation, but warning... it's graphic.

    http://www.deathonline.net/decomposi...lculations.htm


    I just wonder if there were any maggots still present in the trunk though, didn't the Anthonys clean up the car before investigators got it?


  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetmop View Post
    I agree that the investigation of the maggots would also be helpful in determining alot of specifics important to the death.

    This is another good link with alot of explanation, but warning... it's graphic.

    http://www.deathonline.net/decomposi...lculations.htm


    I just wonder if there were any maggots still present in the trunk though, didn't the Anthonys clean up the car before investigators got it?
    Thanks for the link! From my understanding, GA did take things out of the trunk in his attempt to clean it up before the OCSO arrived. However, wasn't it reported that the garbage bag that he removed from CMA's trunk had the "maggot filled pizza" in it and it was retrieved by the OCSO that arrived on the scene? I believe the officer put it in a brown paper bag for Forensics. I believe the FBI became involved shortly after.


  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuickAttack View Post
    From page 316.

    "[Simon] Birch is the facility manager of the wrecker yard....During he morning of July 15, 2008, while Mr. Birch was working at 7777 Narcoossee Road, Mr. Birch was sumond by witness Nicole Lett. Mrs. Lett was working in the front office of the tow yard and was dealing with two upset customers. Mr. Birch met with George Anthony and Cynthia Anthony. Ms. Anthony was upset with the cost of the tow, the length of the time the car was stowed, and requested a discount. Mr. Birch explained the cost of the tow and storage fees, and explained the notification process to Cynthia Anthony and George Anthony. Mr. Birch refused to give a discount. George Anthony agreed to pay for the release of the white Pontiac, providing the white Pontiac's title and his driver license. Mr. Birch took Mr. Anthony into the tow yard to get the car.

    "As they walked, George Anthony mentioned to Mr. Birch his daughter had been missing for awhile, now she will not allow him to see his granddaughter, and has told him several lies. When they reached the white Pontiac, George Anthony used a key to unlock the white Pontiac's driver side door. When the door opened, a very foul odor came from inside the white Pontiac. Mr. Birch immediately recognised the odor as the same odor he smelled in a car stored on the log in which a man committed suicide inside. The man was reported to have remained deceased in the car for approximately five days. The smell from the white Pontiac was not as strong as the other car. Mr. Birch stated, "That's rotten." George Anthony did not reply. George Anthony and Mr. Birch went to the white Pontiac's trunk in an attempt to locate the source of the odor. George Anthony opened the trunk and he and Mr. Birch observed a white garbage bag inside the trunk. Flies also came out of the trunk. Mr. Birch opened the garbage bag and observed several papers, a pizza box, and maggots. Mr. Birch threw the garbage bag over the fence near the tow lot's dumpster."

    Originally Posted by QuickAttack

    If you have a queasy stomach, PLEASE DO NOT READ THIS.

    I really hate to be morbid, but the documents that were released last night leave little wiggle room.

    The towyard manager said that when he opened the trunk, flies flew out and there were maggots inside.

    A trunk is a sealed environment. Flies will not attempt to enter something like a closed, sealed trunk to lay eggs on a pizza box. Even if that pizza box had pizza in it, it just isn't going to happen. Think about the times you've left a half-eaten hamburger on the floorboard of your car. (I'm guilty of this...commuting to work, high-stress job, forgot about the half Big Mac I left in the car for a week.) Think about the Taco Bell bag you left on the back seat...people with kids will admit that we've occasionally left food in the car and forgotten to remove it.

    Sometime in their life cycle, those flies entered that trunk with Caylee's body.

    I believe that Caylee's body was stored outside somewhere...somewhere that flies could have laid eggs on the corpse. It could have been stored there for as brief as several hours or as long as several days.

    Casey worried that the body would be found wherever she left it. Or maybe she knew the dumpster-emptying schedule for the waste company in Orlando. At any rate, she went back to remove the body from the place she had left it, and she put it in her trunk.

    Possibly, the corpse stayed in the trunk from the time she retrieved it until the second time she dumped it. The second dumping of the corpse could have been done on the evening of the 26th, early AM hours of the 27th (the time window when her car was left at Amscot, parked by the dumpster).

    When she loaded the decomposing corpse into the trunk the second time, fluids leaked out. Clumps of hair fell out. Possibly decomposing flesh detached from the body. Decomposing flesh with maggots already hatching.

    When she removed the body from her trunk (to possibly place in the Amscot dumpster), some of those pieces of flesh with maggots were left behind, possibly on the white garbage bag in the trunk.

    This would explain why there were flies and maggots in the trunk when the towyard manager opened it.

    Let's look at a generalized life cycle of the species of flies that assists in decomposition of a body (if we knew the exact species, we could be less generalized in the life cycle):

    From egg to larva (maggot) is 2-5 days. Until day 5, the larvae are feeding on the body.

    The larvae move away from the body to become pupae, and are adult flies on day 19 or 20. Adult flies feed on body fluids, mate immediately after emergence, and lay eggs within two days of emergence...and the cycle begins again.

    So, to summarize this:

    Day 1 - eggs laid.

    Day 2 - eggs hatch.

    Day 2 to 5 - larvae move into and around the body, feeding.

    Day 6 to 19 - pupa stage, no feeding on corpse, mature flies will emerge from the hard case.

    Day 20 - adult fly emerges, feeds.

    Day 22 - adult fly lays eggs on corpse.

    Therefore, the flies that were found in the trunk were second generation flies, as were the maggots, because the car sat sealed at the towyard for 16 days. The second generation had already emerged and begun laying eggs, which had hatched into maggot staged larvae.

    I can't wait to see what a forensic entomologist will reveal about this case. I think that the transport of the corpse can be nailed down to within a couple of days using the life cycle of the flies that flew out of the trunk on July 16th.
    Oops, sorry QuickAttack , I didn't see this thread having been started before. Whomever linked them together, thanks.


  4. #49
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    Trunk = Pandora's box

    If this subject has been discussed already - please forgive me for re-visiting.

    IMO, the trunk of Casey's car is like Pandora's box which contains the key to the mystery of this case.

    June 17-18 - Casey at her home, parked car with the Trunk facing garage (never done this before based on neighbor's observation); borrow the shovel. Trunk is opened or closed? - don't know, neighbor couldn't see;
    June 24 - Casey at her home, George opens the Trunk, gets out 2 gas cans and tool. No garbage bag(s), no foul smell (otherwise he would mention this during interview w/Greta); what else did he see inside? Any cleaning detergents? Any backpacks?;
    June 27-30 - car is abandon, not locked; parked next to the dumpster (inconveniently parked, without gas); Trunk closed, nobody complains about smell. Question: can Trunk be opened without key, from inside of the car? This is very important because from this point on if Trunk can be opened from inside - anyone has access to it!!!
    June 30 July 15 - car at the tow-lot; smell is noticeable; again, if Trunk can be opened from inside - anyone has access to it!!!
    July 15 - Trunk is opened by George/Cindy/tow-lot manager; garbage bag is there (including old pizza and some other stuff) has been disposed and later collected from dumpster by LE. What else? According to Cindy in regards to the 'dark spot' and the smell of the Trunk, she said it was usual that Trunk would have the soiled diapers and cleaning detergents (surprised she didn't mention the gas cans because it would be logical to claim the 'dark spot' and smell to prior possible gas leakage). However, when LE made the list of confiscated items from the Trunk - the cleaning detergents were NOT there. Question to tow-lot manager: what else did he see inside of the Trunk beside garbage bag? This is very important because if he saw something which is not on LE list then opportunity to evidence tampering exist not only for Cindy/George/Lee but for Casey as well (the time between Cindy picking her up from Tony and police arriving) - we're talking here approx 1.5 HOURS of opportunity!

    As of today, all 'shocking evidences' comes from the Trunk: 'dead body' smell, hair, even chloroform...I'm sure much more will come soon...I'm wondering, who saw what and when (her friends, b/f) inside of the Trunk at any given time at any given place? Every detail is important! If Casey was buying grocery or any large items from June 16 - where did she store them: inside of the Trunk or on back seat? When she was driving with Tony (or any one else) did she ever use Trunk after June 16?

    When you have a 3 year old toddler - the Trunk is your right hand. Stroller, diaper bags, toys...especially in Florida when wheater is so convinient for outside activities...I cannot imagine when you have baby and need to travel every day to babysitter - to use Trunk for the garbage storage and cleaning detergents...


  5. #50
    I hope when G and C were cleaning up the trunk that at least ONE tiny maggot escaped them and was later found by LE and THAT maggot will be the undoing of Casey's lies...especially after C had the audacity to call everyone who is grieving for THEIR granddaughter a MAGGOT! I pray that a maggot saves the day! and identifies Caylee's killer!


  6. #51
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    There is already a trunk discussion going on here:

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69646


  7. #52
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    Duplicate posts make more work for the mods.


  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuziQ View Post
    Duplicate posts make more work for the mods.
    did you ask for a merge Suzi? I don;t want to send dupliocate merge requests lol.


  9. #54
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    Isn't it possible that, one, by Casey putting the garbage bag there she knew the car would stink. Two, she could have gotten the bag out of the dumpster next to the car as it was parked near the dumpster. I was under the impression that Cindy was asking for her car back and that might have been Casey's way of saying 'you and the car stink'. The bag might have been in the dumpster for a few days and Casey wanted to stink up the car delibertly.


  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBean View Post
    did you ask for a merge Suzi? I don;t want to send dupliocate merge requests lol.
    By golly I did. For at least a dozen times today! lol.


  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuziQ View Post
    By golly I did. For at least a dozen times today! lol.
    i have sent so many i don;t think they are opening my pm;s anymore lol.


  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBean View Post
    i have sent so many i don;t think they are opening my pm;s anymore lol.
    I asked Christine2448 if she wanted to smack me yet.


  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bookworm474 View Post
    Isn't it possible that, one, by Casey putting the garbage bag there she knew the car would stink. Two, she could have gotten the bag out of the dumpster next to the car as it was parked near the dumpster. I was under the impression that Cindy was asking for her car back and that might have been Casey's way of saying 'you and the car stink'. The bag might have been in the dumpster for a few days and Casey wanted to stink up the car delibertly.
    It wasn't the garbage that stunk.......


  14. #59
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    thatswhatshesaid is offline Jacee Lee Dugard IS and HAS a Mother Of The Year.
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    Stupid question time. I know the maggots can be tested for being exposed to the chloroform, but I wonder if the flies/maggots would be effected by it. As in their breeding or length of life cycle, which might slightly alter the time line. Fortunately there are experts who will know this when it will really count.


  15. #60
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    Thanks to QuickAttack for a very educational and factual thread

    I have experience with maggots on bodies close up and personally. Both live humans who lived in S. FL and had an open, oozing area on the body which attracted flies, and corpses.

    I totally agree that pizza, diapers, whatever else a person can come up with does NOT attract flies and propogate the larvae like decomposing biological material ( A body, whether animal or human).

    I also think that anyone who could drive around with the rotting corpse of her tiny precious daughter in the trunk of the car would have absolutely NO PROBLEMS wrapping same rotting corpse in either plastic or a blanket, whatever was handy, and dumping the body into a dumpster.

    It's the simplest- because dumpsters often stink. Dumpsters always have flies in S Florida. People are normally seen dumping 20 pounds of trash into a dumpster.
    She would not be viewed as doing anything suspicious if she had been seen.

    It also symbolizes her utter lack of conscience. She threw her daughter away in more ways than literally.

    JMO
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    JUSTICE FOR CLO STONER IN 2015!!! http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...-March-17-2014
    This is about the murder of my friend, Clo Stoner, R.N. She was shot point blank in the head numerous times- defenseless, in the middle of the day, by her " boyfriend" in 2014- a victim of domestic violence. The shooting was witnessed by a family member of the shooter. There was so much damage to Clo's skull that the number of gunshots could not be counted, only estimated. Please read the details known about her case here on WS, and please pray for justice for the two victims with me.


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