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Thread: Who should be responsible for this crime?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devorahhh View Post
    First and foremost, I believe that Casey is responsible for what happened to little Caylee, HOWEVER, I also feel that Cindy has some responsibilty also. In my mind, if she knew her daughter did not want to keep the child, then why didn't she take her as her own and raise her herself? By forcing Casey to have the child and then raise her, this, I believe, was the beginning of the end. And George is responsible by being always in the background, apparently a hands off dad. BUT this is just IMHO.

    Devorahhh
    I agree with what you are saying, Devorahhh. I really disagree with the parents insisting Casey keep her baby and be responsible for raising her when it was someting Casey clearly did not want. Forcing her to keep Caylee was a punishment, no matter how you look at it. And in the end, that punishment cost the life of a sweet three year old. I have no doubt Casey's parents did everything they thought would bring their daughter in line and change her ways. The cruel thing about that is - looking at the outcome - maybe they did too much.
    JMO
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    I'm so impressed with your thoughts on this issue.
    I held out for so long that Caylee was alive, but always in the back of my mind, I thought there was some serious mental illness.
    I've actually wondered a few times if perhaps Casey was schizophrenic and Zenaida the nanny was one of her personalities.
    Your post really gives one a lot to think about.
    "Life's splendor forever lies in wait about each one of us in all its fullness, but veiled from view, deep down, invisible, far off. It is there, though, not hostile, not reluctant, not deaf. If you summon it by the right word, by its right name, it will come."
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nedthan Johns View Post
    I believe the true signs of mental illness in this case comes from Casey's complete lack of concern or emotions for her child. She has only shed tears for herself. The lying had gone as far as making up individuals who do not exist. This is beyond the normalcy of a liar. She is living in an altered state of reality. I am not a psychologist but Casey has shown true sociopathic tendencies.

    I agree, but I only have my B.S. in Psychology and would not feel comfortable putting a diagnosis on someone I have never talked to directly.

  4. #29
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    anyone else wondering if she'll slip into a psych ward in the next few days?
    Sin makes its own hell, and goodness its own heaven. ~Mary Baker Eddy

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by azwriter View Post
    I agree with what you are saying, Devorahhh. I really disagree with the parents insisting Casey keep her baby and be responsible for raising her when it was someting Casey clearly did not want. Forcing her to keep Caylee was a punishment, no matter how you look at it. And in the end, that punishment cost the life of a sweet three year old. I have no doubt Casey's parents did everything they thought would bring their daughter in line and change her ways. The cruel thing about that is - looking at the outcome - maybe they did too much.
    JMO
    HI azwriter. Casey does not strike me as the type that does things she doesn't want to.
    I would guess the ultimate decision came down to casey and she chose to keep caylee or not
    This is not about Cindy imo.

  6. #31
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    If your question is, who is responsible for PHYSICALLY taking this precious child's life.
    Perhaps the mother, out on bond. (I have trouble at this point even typing their names.)
    I have my own theory, but we all do...
    Seems there is quite a lot of backpeddling and covering up.
    -From what I have read the pregnancy was not confirmed until the third trimester. The reports of the young pregnant mother partying and maybe not getting any medical care, and not caring?
    -abortion was out of the question, maybe always out of the question.
    -adoption was not an option
    -identity of the father, could be a moot point
    -grandmother insists on keeping the child. why? to love and help raise? to use as punishment? her own selfish needs? Why not just adopt the baby and take responsibility?
    -grandparents never met or spoke with a babysitter or nanny
    -did not have a phone number for their daughter work info?
    -spoke with a counselor and were advised to give ultimatum to daughter about partying and sponging off them --when?
    -could be if the ultimatum was given soon before the disappearance the daughter decided she was going to have to make some changes. Rather than make a serious attempt at being responsilble she took little Caylee away to "teach them a lesson."
    -whatever happened after that is all speculation at this point since none of us know for sure
    Something is very fishy, and I believe there is more that will come out.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Jolynna View Post
    Hopefully a psych professional will come online and correct me if I am wrong, BUT, it is my understanding that those in the field are leaning more toward nature being responsible for mental illness & personality disorders than upbringing. Haven't tests and scans shown that the brains of those with some disorders are different?

    To my knowledge being a sociopath does not DRIVE a person to kill. The lack of empathy for other humans and putting themselves first makes it easier to do wrong.

    But, I think sociopaths can choose.

    Can you have someone committed without evidence they are a danger to themselves or others?

    Don't people with personality disorders have to WANT to change before ANY treatment is effective.

    What evidence MUST a grandparent have to take custody of a grandchild from the natural parent?

    Jolynna, great questions and I know the answers to some of them. Yes mental illness although in cases of bipolar (that i know of) they do think it's related to genetics. But it also has been proven that an unhealthy upbringing or environment can contribute to mental illness. A good case and point is the abuse to Sybil, who created altered identities to keep herself safe in her mind. The direct abuse of Sybil contributed to her psychosis and schizophrenia. They have found that a certain part of the brain in bipolar people is smaller and shrinks as they get older contributing to their illness. Give me 5 minutes and I will post that link for you.

    This statement is correct: To my knowledge being a sociopath does not DRIVE a person to kill. The lack of empathy for other humans and putting themselves first makes it easier to do wrong. Being a sociopath does not drive a person to kill

    In the state of Colorado you can only have someone picked up and detained at a mental facility for 24 hours if they pose a direct threat to themselves or others. They must voluntarily choose to stay at that facility or they are released.

    You stated: Don't people with personality disorders have to WANT to change before ANY treatment is effective.

    most people that have a personality disorder do not think they are crazy. They think other people are crazy and usually will not seek help on their own. I was told this specifically in my brothers case on a specialist in Bipolar Disorder.

    What evidence MUST a grandparent have to take custody of a grandchild from the natural parent?[/QUOTE]

    They must show that the parent is neglectful in taking care of their child or poses a threat to that child.

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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nedthan Johns View Post
    I believe the true signs of mental illness in this case comes from Casey's complete lack of concern or emotions for her child. She has only shed tears for herself. The lying had gone as far as making up individuals who do not exist. This is beyond the normalcy of a liar. She is living in an altered state of reality. I am not a psychologist but Casey has shown true sociopathic tendencies.
    You just described the person that murdered my sister. Personally I think anybody who can take another person's life has to be insane, but both my sister's husband and Casey knew right from wrong.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidz110 View Post
    I agree 100%
    I agree with ya.....

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nedthan Johns View Post
    Originally Posted by SleuthyGal:
    Reporter on MyFox Orlando said she spoke to Cindy and Cindy calls the latest test results, "Hocus Pocus" and she believes her daughter and is standing behind her.


    Now with this latest quote by Cindy, does anyone doubt she is STILL ENABLING HER DAUGHTER?

    We have some truly disturbed parents on our hands
    I don't believe she enabled her, to me that would be that she stood by and watched her child commit an unspeakable crime, and helped her cover her tracks.. I think this is a woman in pure denial that this child is gone.
    One of the first stages of grief is denial.
    Justice For Caylee Marie

  12. #37
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    There is no proof whatsoever Casey is mentally ill. Just because someone acts outside the norm in not proof of mental illness. There is also no proof whatsoever Casey even behaved outside the norm before the age of 18.

    Yes, I do wish Cindy, George, and Lee would wake up and face reality. However, since I am not in the position, THANK GOD, where my grandchild is missing and the evidence is pointing that my daughter killed her, I can't say for sure I would act any differently. Period.

    Maybe, just maybe, they realize Caylee is gone, and Casey is responsible for it. Maybe, they feel Casey spending the rest of her life in prison, or getting the death penalty is not going to bring this precious baby back, and they can't face, after losing a grandchild they clearly loved, they just can't face losing their daughter, as well. Yes, their behavior has made me roll my eyes, shake my head, and even angered me from time to time, but since I am not in their shoes, THANK GOD, I have no idea what is motivating them to act this way. I don't believe for one minute, however, that they are not suffering dearly for what they have lost, and they will for some time to come.

    I have not seen one shred of evidence whatsoever to show they could have had any clue Casey would have done this. It is a long way from ripping off the parents credit cards to murdering a child. I also haven't seen one shred of evidence to support them helping to dispose of the body. What I have seen evidence of is LE picking up on Casey's lies right away, and acting accordingly by arresting her. I have seen evidence of the GP's throwing out some pretty lame statements, and even some outright lies, but I also believe LE is just as aware of all this as I am, and I don't see anything they have done, other than washing the pants, and there is no evidence this was done deliberately to destroy evidence, that has really impeded this investigation at all.

    What do you people suggest to be done about all this? You know, frontal lobotomies and electric shock treatment was all the rage not so long ago. Turns out that wasn't such a good idea. Do you really want some govermnent official coming into your homes whenever they feel like it and dictating to you how to raise your children? What if they want you to give them medication you don't feel is safe? That is already going on with Ritulin, and there is still a lot of debate over whether this stuff is even effective. ADHD isn't necessarily a mental defect, it is just a different way of being, but since it doesn't fit into our cookie cutter society at this time, everyone wants to 'treat' it. The brain and how it works is such a massive, complicated process that isn't even close to being understood yet. One size does not fit all.
    I'm done.
    Lanie

  13. #38
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    Justice For Caylee Marie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nedthan Johns View Post
    most people that have a personality disorder do not think they are crazy. They think other people are crazy and usually will not seek help on their own. I was told this specifically in my brothers case on a specialist in Bipolar Disorder
    Bipolar disorder is not a personality disorder, it is a mood disorder, and is an Axis 1 diagnosis according to DSM-IV, thus placing it closer to a psychotic type disorder than an Axis 2 personality disorder. People can have both bipolar disorder and a personality disorder but they are not one and the same.

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    in Cincinnati right now we have a newlywed bride who supposedly drowned in a bathtub while her husband watched T.V., her family helped bail him out of jail is telling anyone that will listen he is innocent, DENIAL. A shrink was on our local news channel tonight and said it's denial and it's a protective mechanism when you just can't handle the reality.
    Sin makes its own hell, and goodness its own heaven. ~Mary Baker Eddy

  16. #41
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    I know that it is extremely hard to get children diagnosed with anything other than ADD and things like PTSD. Plus the way teenagers cover for each and won't tell things about their friends, I can understand how the Anthony's may not have discovered a whole lot of lying until Casey got older and had a child. By then, they couldn't force Casey to get treatment. I think the medical community should do something to diagnose kids earlier and start considering things like bipolar or personality disorders. The Anthony's probably could have demanded that Casey get help right after the birth though, when the lies and betrayals started. According to Pasley, 3 weeks before the disappearance Cindy told him Casey is a sociopath and they both discovered years of lies. I feel that they should have secretly begun meeting with a lawyer, done no arguing at all with Casey, put Caylee into daycare while they worked, and done everything possible to keep her in their care since Casey was running amok stealing from Cindy and the Grandpa and no telling what else. Everyone who even knows what a sociopath is knows that they can be dangerous.

  17. #42
    browneyedgirl is offline Life is not measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.
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    Well Ned,

    I have to agree with your thoughts and opinion in the fact that I do believe that Cindy is and always has been an enabler. I stated on another thread earlier that, in my opinion, we as parents have a greater obligation to our children and to society as a whole by teaching our children right from wrong, by holding them accountable for their actions from an early age.

    I think sometimes the parents take the easy way out and just look the other way when their children are doing things that they know are not right. When my son stole a cheap pair of sun glasses, I took back to the store immediately, made him explain to the manager what he had done. we not only returned the $.99 glasses, but he also paid for them from his allowance. Sure I could have taken the easy way and looked the other way, after all they were only $.99, but the life lesson he learned was far too important for me to look the other way. To this day, he nor any of my other sons, have stolen anything. You can ask him about that to this day, and the first thing he does is blush from the embarrassement he felt.

    I agree with another posters comment that they are tired of hearing its the parents fault, and I too am tired of that but in this situation, KC showed signs of mental instability for years now. People, on a whole, do not lie and fabricate make belief worlds for themselves to live in. They do not steal from family and friends and they most certainly do not murder thier child, accident or intentional, then go on partying for a month.

    I wouldn't be able to breathe if something happened to one of my children, must less carry on the way KC has been, but the Cindy and KC both seem to be living in this fantasy world where KC isnt going back to jail and Caylee is still alive and breathing somewhere.

    I am beginning to wonder if Cindy isnt mentally ill to some degree. I know that bipolar disorder is passable from generation to generation and, in my opinion, KC has showed signs of being bipolar.

    Anyway, I agree with you Ned and I Thank You for your very imformative post.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by txsvicki View Post
    I know that it is extremely hard to get children diagnosed with anything other than ADD and things like PTSD. Plus the way teenagers cover for each and won't tell things about their friends, I can understand how the Anthony's may not have discovered a whole lot of lying until Casey got older and had a child. By then, they couldn't force Casey to get treatment. I think the medical community should do something to diagnose kids earlier and start considering things like bipolar or personality disorders. The Anthony's probably could have demanded that Casey get help right after the birth though, when the lies and betrayals started. According to Pasley, 3 weeks before the disappearance Cindy told him Casey is a sociopath and they both discovered years of lies. I feel that they should have secretly begun meeting with a lawyer, done no arguing at all with Casey, put Caylee into daycare while they worked, and done everything possible to keep her in their care since Casey was running amok stealing from Cindy and the Grandpa and no telling what else. Everyone who even knows what a sociopath is knows that they can be dangerous.
    Great post!

    I think people are forgetting we don't know ANYTHING about Casey's early years. All we know is what she was like her last 3 years.

    We also know she was an honor student in high school BUT didn't graduate with her class because she was a couple of credits shy.

    I also think it's VERY possible Casey was a teenager who was perhaps more difficult than average & her parents couldn't wait for her to outgrow that stage & settle into adulthood.

    By Cindy's reactions, it seems she only learned about the true scope of Casey's behaviors after Casey left home... most likely AFTER Caylee was already dead.


    I have a feeling we'll be hearing a LOT about Casey's early years.... when the trial begins.

  19. #44
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    I too believe Casey has had personality/mental issues since early teens. I have had experience with a sister (now deceased due to cancer) who was diagnosed bipolar in her mid twenties and have seen first hand how there is no help out there when they are adults - something needs to change in our attitude towards mental health in this country. I don't have the answers, just something needs to change, many homeless people walking the streets today are mentally ill and won't take their meds. We think we can love them more, make their lives better and it will change - it won't. THEY NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP! The Anthony's will have to live with the results however this plays out and I'm sure they are looking back wishing they had done things differently. I have a friend (a nurse) who would not let her son be labeled with any medical diagnosis on his record. She's a smart woman but when it came to her son was adamant - no label and now she is raising his 7 year son. He's around but not much in the childs life. I thank you for posting this thread. It's too late for that precious child, but maybe some others can be spared. Write your congressman and tell them to pass some legislation regarding putting some funding into mental health awareness programs! I believe Cindy has some issues with depression herself and had them way before this started.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by leandjl View Post
    I too believe Casey has had personality/mental issues since early teens. I have had experience with a sister (now deceased due to cancer) who was diagnosed bipolar in her mid twenties and have seen first hand how there is no help out there when they are adults - something needs to change in our attitude towards mental health in this country. I don't have the answers, just something needs to change, many homeless people walking the streets today are mentally ill and won't take their meds. We think we can love them more, make their lives better and it will change - it won't. THEY NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP! The Anthony's will have to live with the results however this plays out and I'm sure they are looking back wishing they had done things differently. I have a friend (a nurse) who would not let her son be labeled with any medical diagnosis on his record. She's a smart woman but when it came to her son was adamant - no label and now she is raising his 7 year son. He's around but not much in the childs life. I thank you for posting this thread. It's too late for that precious child, but maybe some others can be spared. Write your congressman and tell them to pass some legislation regarding putting some funding into mental health awareness programs! I believe Cindy has some issues with depression herself and had them way before this started.
    I've held my tongue as long as I can. In regards to the bolded statement above, that is NOT true. There is plenty of help out there for bipolar disease, and yes, it IS a disease, a chemical imbalance in the brain.

    It is hard to find a doctor who understands this disease, but once you do there are medications, specifically for the symptoms that present, that will turn you into a normal human being. I know this for a FACT, been there, done that, spent 42 years of my life in hell because I didn't know I was bipolar - I just thought I was crazy.

    That out of the way, yes, we need to change our societal views of mental illness. I also need to say I feel Casey is also a victim in this whole horror story. Maybe the gps should have gotten help before they had children, in my humble opinion, of course.

  21. #46
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    Angry

    Casey is a liar, but there is no evidence that she is bipolar. I've known two bipolar people well in my life, they didn't act like this! Casey is just an evil sociopath like Scott Peterson and Susan Smith. She alone committed the crime, but her parents-at least her mother helped her cover it up and tampered with evidence and should be charged as accessories to the crime!
    Casey got rid of Caylee because she was an inconvienience to her party lifestyle- she never loved her ( those were photo ops), and to get back at her mother. If it was an accident, you call 911, you admit it, then you probably won't get manslaughter. She has no concern for Caylee, it's all about Casey! Prison is where she belongs!
    Please help locate Mark Dribin http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=Mark+Dribin and Ilene Misheloff http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...lene+Misheloff and bring them home.



  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan's Mom View Post
    I'm so impressed with your thoughts on this issue.
    I held out for so long that Caylee was alive, but always in the back of my mind, I thought there was some serious mental illness.
    I've actually wondered a few times if perhaps Casey was schizophrenic and Zenaida the nanny was one of her personalities.
    Your post really gives one a lot to think about.
    Somewhere I have read that schizophrenia often shows up in the early 20's - does someone with a background on here in mental health have any knowledge of this? It's just so hard to imagine after seeing some of the pics of Casey with Caylee that that same person could harm her intentionally or accidentally and then hide the body -- but then when you have a sane mind trying to make sense out someone who obviously doesn't think normally it is just impossible.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by leandjl View Post
    Somewhere I have read that schizophrenia often shows up in the early 20's - does someone with a background on here in mental health have any knowledge of this? It's just so hard to imagine after seeing some of the pics of Casey with Caylee that that same person could harm her intentionally or accidentally and then hide the body -- but then when you have a sane mind trying to make sense out someone who obviously doesn't think normally it is just impossible.
    I've done some work with schizophrenics. Their logic usually makes no sense and involves some paranoia. For example, they've arranged all the billboards out to get messages to me!
    Please help locate Mark Dribin http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=Mark+Dribin and Ilene Misheloff http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...lene+Misheloff and bring them home.



  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthOrDare View Post
    I've held my tongue as long as I can. In regards to the bolded statement above, that is NOT true. There is plenty of help out there for bipolar disease, and yes, it IS a disease, a chemical imbalance in the brain.

    It is hard to find a doctor who understands this disease, but once you do there are medications, specifically for the symptoms that present, that will turn you into a normal human being. I know this for a FACT, been there, done that, spent 42 years of my life in hell because I didn't know I was bipolar - I just thought I was crazy.

    That out of the way, yes, we need to change our societal views of mental illness. I also need to say I feel Casey is also a victim in this whole horror story. Maybe the gps should have gotten help before they had children, in my humble opinion, of course.
    I agree there is a lot of help out there and medications, but for some reason many people (my sister and rest of family) felt it was a shameful thing to have mental illness in the family - that's what I meant and there have been influential people come forward and address the fact that they have some mental illness and it has helped, but there are still many people who don't understand that it is not something that can be swept under the rug or fixed by loving more, buying more, helping more - someone with a mental disease must have professional help - that is all I was saying. I hope you are getting along well now and you are not crazy it is a disease the same thing as if had diabetes and it is treatable. I think the Anthony's may be the kind of folks who view it as a bad reflection on them although with Cindy being a nurse I would think she should understand, but then again, I think Cindy has problems as well and may be in denial about it.

  25. #50
    browneyedgirl is offline Life is not measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.
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    Quote Originally Posted by leandjl View Post
    I too believe Casey has had personality/mental issues since early teens. I have had experience with a sister (now deceased due to cancer) who was diagnosed bipolar in her mid twenties and have seen first hand how there is no help out there when they are adults - something needs to change in our attitude towards mental health in this country. I don't have the answers, just something needs to change, many homeless people walking the streets today are mentally ill and won't take their meds. We think we can love them more, make their lives better and it will change - it won't. THEY NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP! The Anthony's will have to live with the results however this plays out and I'm sure they are looking back wishing they had done things differently. I have a friend (a nurse) who would not let her son be labeled with any medical diagnosis on his record. She's a smart woman but when it came to her son was adamant - no label and now she is raising his 7 year son. He's around but not much in the childs life. I thank you for posting this thread. It's too late for that precious child, but maybe some others can be spared. Write your congressman and tell them to pass some legislation regarding putting some funding into mental health awareness programs! I believe Cindy has some issues with depression herself and had them way before this started.
    My sympathies to you in regards to your sister. And I totally agree with your post.

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