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  1. #31
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    Well the DNA isn't Allen's. Of course that doesn't rule him out - there could be contamination, someone other than Zodiac could have licked the stamps - but the fact is that the tests certainly didn't rule him in any more than anyone else.

    Personally I think Allen was a charlatan who wanted attention and to be known as something other than an inadequate child molester. Of course he was weird but he's too far away from the composite, the Don Cheney story is too neat, and a lot of the circumstantial coincidences point to someone who took Zodiac as a role model to play up his role, or were invented by Graysmith.

    Now if the DNA on the stamps matches Tarrance or Gaikowski or Elvis - someone who isn't a cop, a mailman or an associate of a known suspect - then I will be pretty certain that they've found him because that would be too big a coincidence to explain away.

    As for Tarrance - if the new evidence is genuine then yes, it's him. And if the gorilla suit in an icebox was genuine, they'd have found Bigfoot.

  2. #32
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    Yeah, I entertain myself by having it both ways - NO match to the DNA doesn't mean much to me, but a match would mean a whole lot. Heheh.

  3. #33
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    Bluebel - I don't know if you're agreeing with me or being sarcastic; what we have is DNA that is quite likely to be Zodiac's (impossible to put a percentage on it of course) given where it was found but which could be unrelated. However if it turned out to belong to someone who had another connection to the case then either they would have had to handle a Zodiac artefact independently or have been involved in the hoaxing of one. Neither of those possibilities seems more likely than an individual, who has been identified for other reasons, actually being the killer.

  4. #34
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    I always leaned towards Allen also.

    As far as the dna on the stamp, I wonder if that got there simply from people handling the stamp BEFORE it was in Allen's possession..... even though this was before dna testing, I think Zodiac would have moistened the stamp with water & gloved hands to avoid leaving prints.



    From Kaufman's website:

    http://thezodiackiller.digitalzones.com/

    IMPORTANT UPDATE!

    August 30, 2008

    My good friend, Robert Manor and I, Dennis Kaufman have completed a one hour documentary titled "ZODIAC THE UNTOLD STORY." The documentary will soon be available to order for $24.95, which includes shipping and handling.

  5. #35
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    I don't know if you're agreeing with me or being sarcastic
    I was both agreeing with you and being self-deprecating.

    LI_Mom - yeah, that's the video I referenced a few posts back. He actually posted the "Aug 30" update back on Aug 28; I bet he was initially told that his interview would be broadcast on Aug 30.

  6. #36
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    Ed_neil
    Username: Ed_neil

    Registered: 5-2006

    Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 2:17 pm:
    Dennis Kaufman is a conman, nothing more. He has some sort of axe to grind with his stepdad, which is why he's accusing him of being Z. The first clue that he's full of it is the fact that he tried to sell a piece of what he claimed was Stine's shirt to Tom for $50,000; I've seen the e-mail, and Kaufman has spent the last several years denying that fact. It only goes to show that he's trying to make money on this but otherwise has no interest in the case; the fact that he wanted to sell a phony piece of Stine's shirt instead of turning it over to the authorities speaks volumes.

    The second clue is his baseless claim that his stepdad murdered his mother; I have a copy of her death certificate, and it shows that she died at the UC Davis Medical Center of cardio respiratory arrest due to anoxic brain injury due to respiratory failure due to autoimmune cholangitis. In other words, she died of natural causes due to the rare disease she had. True, she was only 50 years old, but people can die of natural causes at any age.

    Dennis Kaufman is not to be taken seriously. Law enforcement obviously doesn't, or they would have arrested Jack Tarrance for the Zodiac murders years ago.
    http://www.zodiackiller.com/discus/messages/27/786.html

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cymro View Post
    Well the DNA isn't Allen's. Of course that doesn't rule him out - there could be contamination, someone other than Zodiac could have licked the stamps - but the fact is that the tests certainly didn't rule him in any more than anyone else.

    Personally I think Allen was a charlatan who wanted attention and to be known as something other than an inadequate child molester. Of course he was weird but he's too far away from the composite, the Don Cheney story is too neat, and a lot of the circumstantial coincidences point to someone who took Zodiac as a role model to play up his role, or were invented by Graysmith.

    Now if the DNA on the stamps matches Tarrance or Gaikowski or Elvis - someone who isn't a cop, a mailman or an associate of a known suspect - then I will be pretty certain that they've found him because that would be too big a coincidence to explain away.

    As for Tarrance - if the new evidence is genuine then yes, it's him. And if the gorilla suit in an icebox was genuine, they'd have found Bigfoot.
    I agree completely that the recovered DNA beneath the stamps is not Allen's but that doesn't establish anything unless the DNA can be traced to another human being. So far as I know, it was moistened by the collection of human spittle and put into a refrigerator to be used as necessary.

    I worked with DNA for about 10 years or so. The common way was to swab the inside of a person's mouth and put it into a tamper proof plastic wrapper that if disturbed would invalidate the sample. The simple remedy was simply to get another sample.

    In the situation of the stamp, we have no idea, nor any means to establish a chain of custody. Unless we can trace that DNA to another human being; living or dead, the DNA is completely and totally worthless.

    Allen is not exonerated and if anyone claims otherwise they are badly mistaken.

    The known facts are that Allen could never be eliminated as the prime suspect in any of these murders. If that were true, then he would have been marked off the list a long time ago.

    Unless someone shows me someone who meets the physical characteristics of the positive ID, footprint and description at the Lake murder that comes anywhere close to Allen, I conclude that he was in fact Zodiac.

    And I would also add, that to my knowledge, not a single other individual was ever seriously considered by any of the police investigators to have been involved with these crimes. Only Allen.

  8. #38
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    What about the roll of film that he supposedly found that supposedly had pictures of grisly murders on them? He said he had turned those in to the FBI? That seems like at least something, even if it's not evidence of Zodiac.

  9. #39
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    Jack Tarrance is not the Zodiac. Dennis Kaufman is a well-known fraud in Zodiac circles.

    The only reason that this is being discussed is because some teleprompter-reading hottie who masquerades as a "reporter" at Sacramento's CBS13 was conned by Dennis into falling for his long-ago dismissed fable.

    Doesn't anyone find it curious that Dennis "found" the hood and knife just as his "documentary" is finished and is offered for sale? Hmmm???
    Order the book "Searching For Anna" directly from [URL="http://www.lulu.com/conte

  10. #40
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    I don't think I have ever heard of this guy before...But, if he is widely known to be a fraud in the Zodiac "community", then why is the FBI bothering to test the items? I guess they can never be too careful and have to check out all possibilities. Still, though...it seems like a waste of money if they are aware of his history of possibly making up stories.

    As far as the film goes, it looked like Kodak film roll containers not instant cameras. But, regardless, if those are pictures of dead bodies where did they come from? Even if they are not connected to the Zodiac, they could possibly solve other crimes. Who knows, maybe Kaufman himself is a killer.

    BTW, Missouri Mule, thanks for recommending the "Director's Cut" (on another thread) of the recent Downey/Gyllenhaal Zodiac film. I checked it out this summer and it was much, much more interesting than another version that I rented by mistake with Vince Vaughan in it.
    A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination.
    ~ Nelson Mandela


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by LillyRush View Post
    I don't think I have ever heard of this guy before...But, if he is widely known to be a fraud in the Zodiac "community", then why is the FBI bothering to test the items? I guess they can never be too careful and have to check out all possibilities. Still, though...it seems like a waste of money if they are aware of his history of possibly making up stories.

    As far as the film goes, it looked like Kodak film roll containers not instant cameras. But, regardless, if those are pictures of dead bodies where did they come from? Even if they are not connected to the Zodiac, they could possibly solve other crimes. Who knows, maybe Kaufman himself is a killer.

    BTW, Missouri Mule, thanks for recommending the "Director's Cut" (on another thread) of the recent Downey/Gyllenhaal Zodiac film. I checked it out this summer and it was much, much more interesting than another version that I rented by mistake with Vince Vaughan in it.
    Thank you for your kind words.

    I would offer a note of caution. Concerning the "Zodiac Community" I would refer to most as "Zodiac Cultists" which is the way that a former long time police officer put to me. I say that as one who attempted without success to get across the point that the DNA without a proper chain of custody and without tracing what was found to another specific individual as totally and completely worthless.

    I would suggest that anything that is said on some of these sites and most would know what I am referring to with a huge grain of salt. If someone who is not an expert on DNA doesn't recognize the imperative nature of proper DNA testing they will never understand why merely having DNA in and of itself means nothing unless it can be traced to another person or is used to eliminate someone who by virtue of their lack of DNA at a site such as a rape can positively be shown not to have committed the crime. In the case of the DNA under the stamp, no one was ever connected to that particular DNA nor is there any known Zodiac DNA or fingerprints on file anywhere.

    As to Tarrance, I am keeping an open mind for now. I am highly doubtful although he does fit the height and weight of the subject known to be at the Lake murder. If the survivor could look at the mask and positively ID it as being on the subject, I would be much more inclined to believe it might be him. He still survives and is a practicing attorney and remembers the circumstances well.

  12. #42
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    I think its him...
    Everything I Write Is JMHO ..

  13. #43
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    The last SFPD investigators of the case were Homicide Detail Inspectors Michael N. Maloney and Kelly Carroll. They were the first to submit DNA evidence from Zodiac's letters for analysis, which resulted in a partial genetic profile. DNA testing seems to have conclusively ruled out their lead suspect, Arthur Leigh Allen.[59]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_zodiac_killer

    You can choose to be bitter or better when handling your problems.


    My posts are just my opinion and for entertainment purposes only.
    Do not copy any of my post. All post are to remain here.



    Christopher McCandless (aka Alexander Supertramp)
    2/12/1968 -8/1992 RIP you are missed.




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  14. #44
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    I am reading many interesting comments here. Thank you for the links as well.
    Recently, I read Zodiac used glue on his fingertips to avoid leaving any fingerprints

    You can choose to be bitter or better when handling your problems.


    My posts are just my opinion and for entertainment purposes only.
    Do not copy any of my post. All post are to remain here.



    Christopher McCandless (aka Alexander Supertramp)
    2/12/1968 -8/1992 RIP you are missed.




    http://www.bringkyronhome.org/
    If you have information about Kyron Horman, please call the Tip Line at 503-261-2847 or dial 911

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by arielilane View Post
    The last SFPD investigators of the case were Homicide Detail Inspectors Michael N. Maloney and Kelly Carroll. They were the first to submit DNA evidence from Zodiac's letters for analysis, which resulted in a partial genetic profile. DNA testing seems to have conclusively ruled out their lead suspect, Arthur Leigh Allen.[59]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_zodiac_killer
    The DNA test could only have ruled him in. It could not be said to have scientifically ruled him out.

    Likewise, if the DNA found under the stamps would match Tarrance it would rule him in. But if it didn't match it would not rule him out either.

    This is quite easy to understand. Since there is no chain of custody of the DNA material and there is no way to know how it came to be under the stamps it is entirely without scientific foundation to say he was ruled out. It would violate all the protocols of DNA testing to take an unknown sample of DNA and say that because it didn't match the only serious Zodiac suspect it somehow eliminated him. That DNA could have gotten there any number of other ways. Match the DNA to a person; dead or alive, and then go from there. The DNA has not been matched to anyone and there is no DNA or fingerprints that can be said to be definitively that of Zodiac anywhere. If there were, which there isn't, then what might be said about the DNA under the stamps was that it wasn't Allen's but we have no way under the sun to say if he didn't have someone working with him who could have provided that DNA either knowingly or unknowingly. Allen is known to have had a dislike for licking stamps.

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