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  1. #46
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    How would the DNA testing have ruled out Allen?
    My guess is none of the markers in the partial DNA strand matched Allen's DNA.

    Please someone correct me if I am wrong but with a partial DNA strand it can only eliminate donors not match them. I think.

    In the JonBenet case they only have a very small partial strand of DNA that they use to check against people. This DNA can only rule people out because it is so limited in nature. It has only a few markers as opposed to the many markers needed to make an identification.

    Look at it like this, if you only had a partial finger print then the owner of that print would match the partial but so could other people. But, if none of the partial swirls or circles match a person's fingerprint then you know that person did not leave the print.

    Thanks for letting me pop in here. Had to get a way a bit from the Caylee forum. It's going nuts.

    Can you imagne if we had discussion forums during the Zodiac days? Now that would have been wild.

    Tricia


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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tricia View Post

    Please someone correct me if I am wrong but with a partial DNA strand it can only eliminate donors not match them. I think.

    You are correct. Partial DNA samples will eliminate possible donors, not match them.
    John 3:16

    Everyday it is my fervent prayer that these cases are solved


  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tricia View Post
    Can you imagne if we had discussion forums during the Zodiac days? Now that would have been wild.
    It has been 40 years since Zodiac was active and the discussions STILL can be pretty wild. On various sites across the internet, people are attempting to prove that Zodiac was (1) Ted Kazynski, (2) Bruce Davis of the Manson Family, (3) Gareth Penn (an early amatuer researcher of the Zodiac killings) and (4) Mr. X (an unnamed well-known San Francisco businessman). Tarrance is but yet another in a long list of improbable suspects- probably the most improbable that I have seen.
    Order the book "Searching For Anna" directly from [URL="http://www.lulu.com/conte


  4. #49
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    I hate to jump in so quickly but it is necessary.

    I stipulate that none of the DNA or fingerprint(s) match Allen. (Partial or complete)

    Since no one knows how the DNA or fingerprint(s) can be known to have been placed there by Zodiac, how is it possible to conclude that Allen was exonerated?

    Perhaps I am missing something here. Maybe I am just dense. Can someone explain to me how one can be exonerated from a source that can't be traced to another individual?

    Note: The fingerprint at the Stine murder has long been speculated on and the predominent view, so far as I know, was that no one knew how the print came to be there so it was discounted as reliable.

    Since the DNA under the stamps cannot be said conclusively to have come from Zodiac, how could anyone be exonerated? No one was there to testify when and how the stamps were moistened. That is what I have been trying to get across. A friend or even a complete stranger could have licked the stamps. We simply don't know. It is known that Allen was known not to have liked to lick stamps. It seems logical to conclude that that being the case it is more likely than not that someone else licked those stamps other than Allen or as I have suggested, he collected spittle from any number of sources, saved to the refrigerator to be used at the time he would be mailing his many letters. DNA was discovered in 1953 Allen was acknowledged to be highly intelligent with a genius IQ and would have known that and could and probably did account for the possibility it would be a way to track him if he left any of his own DNA at any of the crime scenes. If I recall correctly he had a thorough working knowledge of chemicals and makeup.

    What would be interesting to know was whether or not all of the many letters written as "Zodiac" and as "Citizen" (identified to be from Zodiac) all had the same DNA profile. If that could be done, it might be possible to pin down the source to a single source. That would argue that Allen must have had a reliable friend to lick the stamps, or used the same source to draw the moisture from to apply to the stamps. Or, alternatively, it might point to an entirely different person. And to my knowledge the list of winnowed down suspects numbered only about six individuals with Allen topping the list. There was no time in any of these murders where he could be placed outside the immediate crime scenes that I have any knowledge.


  5. #50
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    I believe that SFPD has been using the Stine fingerprint to rule out suspects for quite some time.
    Aside from that everything Ed Niel said about this individual is true.
    Nothing is going to come of this.
    As far as Zodiac Cultist go keep in mind this is an incredibly complex case.
    Tom Voights site is has a wealth of material pertaining to the case.
    I would advise anyone interested to familiarise themselves thoroughly with the evidence and documentation and developments regarding suspects over the last 40 years before jumping to conclusions.
    It will give you alot more perspective when it comes to dealing with frauds like the one playing out now.


  6. #51
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    Strange Twist With Zodiac Killer Suspect And FBI

    ~snip~

    Here's the twist: The trailer park where Jack Tarrance once lived is now the location of the local FBI headquarters. FBI agents who could ultimately prove or disprove Tarrance's connection to the Zodiac now work at the same place he once lived.

    http://cbs13.com/local/fbi.zodiac.twist.2.814709.html


  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by kline View Post
    I believe that SFPD has been using the Stine fingerprint to rule out suspects for quite some time.
    Aside from that everything Ed Niel said about this individual is true.
    Nothing is going to come of this.
    As far as Zodiac Cultist go keep in mind this is an incredibly complex case.
    Tom Voights site is has a wealth of material pertaining to the case.
    I would advise anyone interested to familiarise themselves thoroughly with the evidence and documentation and developments regarding suspects over the last 40 years before jumping to conclusions.
    It will give you alot more perspective when it comes to dealing with frauds like the one playing out now.
    If the SFPD is using the Stine fingerprint to rule out anyone I would suggest they get into another line of work. No one knows where that fingerprint came from. It could have come from a cadaver for all we know.

    As to that other site and those who believe they have a monopoly on knowledge surrounding this case I would suggest that they take a long walk, clear out the cobwebs, get away from this case and then return to it with an open mind. The ONLY things we truly know about Zodiac (at the current time) is that Zodiac was approximately 6 feet tall and weighed in excess of 230 pounds and wore wingwalker boots from the Lake murder. The deceased victim and the live survivor both provided very credible information. And the ONLY suspect who met all of the criteria and could never be eliminated was dead of a heart attack 16 years ago.

    For the life of me I don't understand why anyone would believe that any DNA or fingerprints obtained from any of the crime scenes could be used to eliminate any suspects. They could rule someone in as a POSSIBLE suspect but could not scientifically rule someone out because there is no chain of custody. There is no way to establish when and how such evidence came to be there.

    Having said this, Tarrance is an intriguing suspect because he does meet the physical description and has an interesting history. I suspect, however, that nothing will come of this inquiry.


  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicoliving View Post
    ~snip~

    Here's the twist: The trailer park where Jack Tarrance once lived is now the location of the local FBI headquarters. FBI agents who could ultimately prove or disprove Tarrance's connection to the Zodiac now work at the same place he once lived.

    http://cbs13.com/local/fbi.zodiac.twist.2.814709.html
    OMG! Thank you chicoliving for posting this. What a strange twist indeed.

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  9. #54
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    Wow this is interesting..


  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule View Post
    If the SFPD is using the Stine fingerprint to rule out anyone I would suggest they get into another line of work. No one knows where that fingerprint came from. It could have come from a cadaver for all we know.

    As to that other site and those who believe they have a monopoly on knowledge surrounding this case I would suggest that they take a long walk, clear out the cobwebs, get away from this case and then return to it with an open mind. The ONLY things we truly know about Zodiac (at the current time) is that Zodiac was approximately 6 feet tall and weighed in excess of 230 pounds and wore wingwalker boots from the Lake murder. The deceased victim and the live survivor both provided very credible information. And the ONLY suspect who met all of the criteria and could never be eliminated was dead of a heart attack 16 years ago.

    For the life of me I don't understand why anyone would believe that any DNA or fingerprints obtained from any of the crime scenes could be used to eliminate any suspects. They could rule someone in as a POSSIBLE suspect but could not scientifically rule someone out because there is no chain of custody. There is no way to establish when and how such evidence came to be there.

    Having said this, Tarrance is an intriguing suspect because he does meet the physical description and has an interesting history. I suspect, however, that nothing will come of this inquiry.
    Oh yeah,I would have to agree on that point.
    there has been some fierce arguing about how much or if the Stine scene was contaminated by LE and or bystanders but I dont see how they could conclusively determine beyond a shadow of a doubt that print belonged to Zodiac.
    Im also not knocked out by the dna removed from the back of the stamps being used to rule out suspects.Many would disagree with me though.
    As far as Tarance thats one of the things about this case there are a multitude of weirdos from that time and place we could concieve being Zodiac.
    Barring a miracle I dont think this case will ever be conclusivly solved.
    I would be thrilled to be proven wrong.


  11. #56
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    You know when I think of the Zodiac case Im reminded of something Donald Rumblowe said about the Ripper suspects.
    Like Zodiac Jack the Ripperologists have about six or seven top suspects each with their own fiercly partisan following of 'experts' who are certain their suspect is the Ripper.
    To Paraphrase:On the day of Judgement when all things will be known and all questions answered and the Zodiac experts ask for Zodiac to step forward and name himself they are all going to look at each other in bewilderment and say:"Who???!!...."


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  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule View Post
    I've tried to explain this before. We don't know how or what found its way under the stamp. I can think of a very easy way to do this. Just go along any city sidewalk and clean up spittle and take it back to his residence and wring it out into a jar and then freeze it. When the stamps are mailed, simply moisten the stamps with this substance.

    Briefly stated, since there is no chain of custody, the DNA is worthless UNLESS it can be traced definitively to another person. It is at that point that person is reeled in to do some 'splaining. Until that person is found means nothing.
    Why would the Zodiac feel the need to cover his tracks like that decades before DNA testing was "invented"?


  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by kline View Post
    Oh yeah,I would have to agree on that point.
    there has been some fierce arguing about how much or if the Stine scene was contaminated by LE and or bystanders but I dont see how they could conclusively determine beyond a shadow of a doubt that print belonged to Zodiac.
    Im also not knocked out by the dna removed from the back of the stamps being used to rule out suspects.Many would disagree with me though.
    As far as Tarance thats one of the things about this case there are a multitude of weirdos from that time and place we could concieve being Zodiac.
    Barring a miracle I dont think this case will ever be conclusivly solved.
    I would be thrilled to be proven wrong.
    People thought that of BTK. Hoping that Zodiac is still alive and in one final curtain call need to contact the media!!!
    Have no idea whether it's this guy but crossing fingers it'll be resolved before the next decade.
    Only my opinion, no one else need agree.


  15. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedavis View Post
    Why would the Zodiac feel the need to cover his tracks like that decades before DNA testing was "invented"?
    DNA was known of as far back as 1953. The Zodiac murders began in the late 1960s. Since DNA is a unique marker it would not have required much imagination to realize the potential of keeping the DNA from the crime scenes.

    Whoever Zodiac was, it is obvious this was no ordinary criminal. He went to great lengths to throw the investigation off on trails leading nowhere. I don't see any point in all the emphasis in the ciphers. It certainly took up a lot of time of various people but it solved nothing to break the code. And the handprinting was smart in that handprinting versus handwriting can be easily misinterpreted as coming from any number of people while handwriting is extremely difficult to disguise. Then of course we know that the primary suspect was ambidextrious and if I recall correctly had an extremely high IQ and was involved in chemical analysis or related field.

    The fingerprints and DNA from the crime scenes, are in my view, totally worthless unless they can be traced to a specific individual. The ONLY clues to the identity are to be found at the lake murder which due to the unfortunate circumstances where Cynthia Shepard essentially bled out but nonetheless allowed the first responding officer to go over carefully with her and subsequently the survivor to arrive at the approximate height and weight of Zodiac. We have the identification of the boot print as being a wingwalker, size 10.5 and with a comparison of the deputy it was determined the weight of Zodiac as being in excess of 230 pounds. All of the other alleged evidence proves nothing at all.

    The circumstantial case is overwhelming in my opinion. I've seen nothing to persuades me that it could be anyone else except the only serious suspect of this case and certainly there is nothing to eliminate him as a suspect.


  16. #60
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    http://cbs13.com/local/zodiac.dna.tests.2.820165.html

    results are 'odd' state FBI. Doesn't discount him as the Zodiac nor does it completely confirm him either.

    further tests are being conducted. personally I think it's quite exciting that he wasn't excluded. maybe our man?
    Only my opinion, no one else need agree.


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