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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by PattyCake View Post
    http://cbs13.com/local/zodiac.dna.tests.2.820165.html

    results are 'odd' state FBI. Doesn't discount him as the Zodiac nor does it completely confirm him either.

    further tests are being conducted. personally I think it's quite exciting that he wasn't excluded. maybe our man?
    If I read the article correctly, two people licked the envelope. Since we don't know who these two people are, at this point in any event, then the theory I have advanced for some time may be that Zodiac collected specimens of spittle in order to provide such results. DNA was discovered about 1953 and the Zodiac murders began about 1969.

    But it certainly is interesting regardless. Tarrance had a mysterious past and his physical description and weight does meet the known individual at the Lake murders, the only true evidence in the Zodiac murders.

    Could be. Can't be ruled out.

  2. #62
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by arielilane View Post
    OMG! Thank you chicoliving for posting this. What a strange twist indeed.

    Completely off topic, sorry BUT I am not familiar with this case and will have to read about it but wasn't Jack Torrance the character Jack Nicholson played in "The Shining" ?
    Probably got it wrong knowing me
    Last edited by badhorsie; 09-19-2008 at 05:32 AM. Reason: Spelling Errors

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by badhorsie View Post
    Completely off topic, sorry BUT I am not familiar with this case and will have to read about it but wasn't Jack Torrance the character Jack Nicholson played in "The Shining" ?
    Probably got it wrong knowing me
    Hi badhorsie! I am not sure about the Jack Torrance character played by Jack Nicholson in The Shining, but Jack Tarrance is who we are speaking of on this thread. Read up and join in, if you will. It is captivating and this case is long overdue as to who the Zodiac was!


    Will the real zodiac please stand up....LOL

    You can choose to be bitter or better when handling your problems.


    My posts are just my opinion and for entertainment purposes only.
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    Christopher McCandless (aka Alexander Supertramp)
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by PattyCake View Post
    http://cbs13.com/local/zodiac.dna.tests.2.820165.html

    results are 'odd' state FBI. Doesn't discount him as the Zodiac nor does it completely confirm him either.

    further tests are being conducted. personally I think it's quite exciting that he wasn't excluded. maybe our man?
    Thank you, PattyCake for posting!

    WW! Time will tell...

    from link-
    The FBI has received results in the first round of DNA tests that could link a local man's stepfather to the infamous Zodiac Killer. The tests did not conclude that Jack Tarrance is the Zodiac Killer, but they did not eliminate him as a suspect.

    You can choose to be bitter or better when handling your problems.


    My posts are just my opinion and for entertainment purposes only.
    Do not copy any of my post. All post are to remain here.



    Christopher McCandless (aka Alexander Supertramp)
    2/12/1968 -8/1992 RIP you are missed.




    http://www.bringkyronhome.org/
    If you have information about Kyron Horman, please call the Tip Line at 503-261-2847 or dial 911

  5. #65
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    If (and in my opinion it's still a big if) the Zodiac was responsible for the murder of Cheri Jo Bates...Then it seems to me that the watch recovered from the scene would be as good or better a source of DNA than the letters.
    I've read articles that state hair and skin were found under Cheri Jo's nails...But I'm not sure that is confirmed.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by arielilane View Post
    I cannot stress enough how much I am waiting to hear the results of the testing on the items, specifically the hooded outfit and the knife!!!

    I think Allen was already ruled out due to DNA not a match. I am leaning toward some creditability that the Zodiac killer may have been JT. This case reminds me of BKT, although I think Zodiac is dead.
    You and me both. I grew up in Wichita Kansas I heard all about BTK. Knowing what I know now I believe BTK was a copycat in a lot of ways. I remember my cousin calling me at work saying they had BTK, I was like "No way!" they ambushed another innocent man I bet. I was SOOO glad to see he was caught. My family had horried dreams and would check our houses every day if we came home alone. My mom was Shirley's babysitter.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowangel View Post
    If (and in my opinion it's still a big if) the Zodiac was responsible for the murder of Cheri Jo Bates...Then it seems to me that the watch recovered from the scene would be as good or better a source of DNA than the letters.
    I've read articles that state hair and skin were found under Cheri Jo's nails...But I'm not sure that is confirmed.
    LOL I so go back and forth about whether Zodiac is responsible for Cheri Joe...I think it would depend on what day of the week someone asked me what I thought.
    Same with suspect Arthur Allen Leigh.

  8. #68
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    I go back and forth too. Plus, did he suddenly stop and why? If he stopped, where were all the various suspects after "the end" and would any of those circumstances explain the stop. Or did he keep killing but in a more "routine style" that just wasn't connected. Generally experts feel a killer doesn't just suddenly stop killing - they die or go to jail or move away and new crimes aren't linked due to distance. But BTK did stop for a LONG time, so we know some can.

    And for all we know, some day the case could be solved and be no one previously connected! Frustrating because this is one I would like solved.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malapoo View Post
    I go back and forth too. Plus, did he suddenly stop and why? If he stopped, where were all the various suspects after "the end" and would any of those circumstances explain the stop. Or did he keep killing but in a more "routine style" that just wasn't connected. Generally experts feel a killer doesn't just suddenly stop killing - they die or go to jail or move away and new crimes aren't linked due to distance. But BTK did stop for a LONG time, so we know some can.

    And for all we know, some day the case could be solved and be no one previously connected! Frustrating because this is one I would like solved.
    Something to chew on.

    To my knowledge not a single murder occurred after Allen was confronted at his place of employment.

    I would suggest that is why no further documented murders took place.

    Serial murderers also have a tendency to "burn out" over time.

    I do not personally believe that Rader had anything whatever to do with Zodiac.

    Something else to chew on. I've always found this article intriguing. An excerpt:

    "After Allen was dismissed, Gwen's family left town when the school year ended in June, and moved to Wisconsin where Michaels began corresponding with her. Michaels said she remembers one letter from Gwen in particular that shocked her. "She wrote me and said, "you'll never believe who I saw here. I saw Mr. Allen," It was so weird and I remember being afraid for her."
    ...

    (Snip)

    http://www.zodiackiller.com/LD2.html

  10. #70
    ok not a lot i can add here but a reminder how the world has changed. when i was a little girl if we didn't have a stamp laying around to mail a letter we simply taped or paperclipped a coin to the letter and threw it in the nearest mail box. the letters always arrived so one has to assume the mailman licked a stamp and put it on the letter.
    lol ok now i have admitted how old i am i will leave u to ur discussion.


  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule View Post
    I've tried to explain this before. We don't know how or what found its way under the stamp. I can think of a very easy way to do this. Just go along any city sidewalk and clean up spittle and take it back to his residence and wring it out into a jar and then freeze it. When the stamps are mailed, simply moisten the stamps with this substance.

    Briefly stated, since there is no chain of custody, the DNA is worthless UNLESS it can be traced definitively to another person. It is at that point that person is reeled in to do some 'splaining. Until that person is found means nothing.
    Given that back when these crimes took place, DNA evidence was not known or even heard of- I would find it very unlikely that someone back then would walk down the street to simply collect spittle to moisten stamps with.




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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cagney View Post
    Given that back when these crimes took place, DNA evidence was not known or even heard of- I would find it very unlikely that someone back then would walk down the street to simply collect spittle to moisten stamps with.
    DNA was discovered in 1953.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/databank...es/do53dn.html

    It would be reasonable to conclude that Allen with his occupational background would have had reason to be concerned about leaving anything behind that could tie him to the crimes. Obviously if his DNA were found under the stamps it would be a prima facia case since he was and is the only serious suspect of this case. He was most likely to be indicted when he dropped dead of a heart attack at age 58. No investigator who actually worked the case ever believed it was anyone except Allen.

    "At 11:30 am, Mulanax made a phone call to Allen's employer, Union Oil in Pinole, California, and arranged an interview at the refinery where the suspect worked as a junior chemist. Mulanax then notified Armstrong and Toschi."


    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/databank...es/do53dn.html

  13. #73
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    As far as I know Toschi is still convinced Zodiac was ALA.

  14. #74
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    You could always hand someone some mail asking them to drop it off for you. They may notice you didn't seal one, and back in those days, wouldn't necessarily think anything of sealing it for you.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by kline View Post
    As far as I know Toschi is still convinced Zodiac was ALA.
    So far as I know, no investigator on the case believes it was anyone other than Allen. There was one investigator after the fact who believed he proved it was another person but he never actually worked the case as an active investigator and didn't have access to the police files.

    One thing that is often missed was that the jurisdiction of the cases overlapped and there was never a coordinated effort to nail Zodiac. The right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing. And there is reason to believe that Zodiac knew how to game the system to gum up the works. By all accounts Allen had an extraordinarily high IQ but a complete failure in life and never had any success with women. He despised his own mother although he lived in her house. He was a dysfunctional human being by all accounts and a convicted sexual predator. And he was the only one who ever directly communicated with Toschi after release from prison. He couldn't leave it alone but at the end of his life pleaded not to be identified as Zodiac although he never did anything to disabuse the investigators he wasn't Zodiac when it would have mattered.

    So far as I know, there is not a single piece of evidence, real or circumstantial, that would exonerate Allen. Although many would believe that he wasn't and was somehow exonerated through the stamp DNA, which I regard as laughable, a cottage industry has sprung up with a new suspect every other day. These "cultists" as one former police officer put it to me have no other life so they keep at it. This will likely never end no matter how long it takes. Zodiac will go into the crime annals as another Jack the Ripper, Judge Crater or Jimmy Hoffa crime.

    For those who have the time, there is literally a mountain of on-line information available to the public involving police records and the like. Also the "Director's Cut" of Zodiac has a wealth of new information that helps to further cement the overwhelming circumstantial case against Allen. While it can't be proven to an absolute certainty, I believe if such a case were presented to a jury, the case would be decided on the base beyond a "reasonable doubt." In my view there is no "reasonable doubt" as to Allen's guilt. He was in my opinion Zodiac. Of course, I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

    Had he lived and gone to trial, I believe he would ultimately have cut a deal and admitted to being Zodiac which never happened due to his early death from diabetes and heart disease. He was nearly blind and on disability at the end of his life and dropped over dead at only age 58. He was a failed human being both to himself and to his probable victims. He was gifted with a high IQ but never put that to good use which is a shame. He could have amounted to something but squandered it for reasons that defy understanding. We will never know. He never lived to tell us.

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