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  1. #1
    LazyCat08's Avatar
    LazyCat08 is offline I may not be Glenn Beck, but I am a thinker......
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    Question Many many Questions - Could Casey walk?

    Sorry this is a long one.

    I have some serious questions regarding this case for anyone with a lot of legal and/or LE knowledge:


    1. So far Casey is charged with theft, check fraud, child neglect and hindering the investigation by lying to LE. How long can she be kept in jail on these charges. Why did LE wait to charge her with check fraud until last night. Is there a strategy behind this? If she is convicted on all of these charges only what is the maximum penalty in FL?

    2. I read that the body farm testing is admissible in court in a murder trial and is almost as good as DNA evidence....but they also said this kind of testing is a relatively "new" kind of testing for LE to use.
    What is the chance that the results could be wrong or misleading and how would that look to a judge and jury if that's all they have against her? How much do they really know about it? From a legal perspective how likely is it that this would hold up in court if she were brought to trial.

    3. They claim to have DNA evidence from hair found in the trunk but they also said that it could be Casey's or Caylee's and since they are mother and daughter how conclusive is that really?
    (How much hair are we talking about? One strand or a clump? because I know I shed worse that my cat does and I could guarantee that my hair would be on, in, and around almost anything that I come in contact with. It doesn't seem to necessarily mean much that hair was found in the family car...even in the trunk.)

    4. What is the status of the test on the "FLUID" found in the car? I've heard very little about it but it seems like this could be the best evidence they have if it is from Caylee's body. It seems that it would be extremely difficult for Casey to explain how blood, urine or vomit, etc. from a 3 year old got into the TRUNK of a car......a car that just happens to also smell of human decomposition.

    5. While all this evidence is compelling and went considered together I believe most people would suspect foul play, there seems to be NO TANGIBLE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE to prove that Casey harmed her daughter. If all of this evidence along with the cadaver dogs alert were enough to convict her of a murder then WHY hasn't she been charged yet. Do you think that LE is keeping a bombshell under wraps until they have exhausted all search options or hope of locating the body.....the whole things leads me to believe that LE knows that they no matter what we all suspect, they do not have a case......leading to my final question:

    6. It has been AT LEAST over a month since this child was seem alive. If she is dead and buried or hidden what are the chances that there is anything left of the body at this point except bones? I believe that mother nature could pretty much dissolve a body in as little as two weeks in such a hot damp climate. What does this mean for Casey? If they find remains but cannot determine the cause of death or they NEVER find Caylee and Casey NEVER talks, could Casey simply walk away from the apparent disappearance of her daughter with no further charges?


    Believe me, I am not trying to argue her innocence in the least.
    I fully believe that Casey Anthony is a severely troubled young woman and that she definitely had something to do with Caylee's disappearance. Additionally it seems that her parents have only compounded her problems by denying the truth and failing to get her professional help a long time ago.
    Do you think her lawyer is telling her to just keep quiet because LE doesn't have a case?

    In cases where people have been convicted without a body or physical evidence there is usually some kind of eye witness testimony or something to link the person to the actual commission of a crime or the intent to commit a crime.......pre-meditation or something. All we really see here is a girl with a lot of problems who became a mother too young and didn't really want to responsibility. But didn't most people say she was a loving mother to her child? She may have expressed doubts about her life with Caylee, that seems some what normal under the circumstances.
    Also if a dead body were moved from the yard into the car and transported some where like the dumpster the store parking lot would the dogs not be able to follow the sent to some degree and would they not alert on the dumpster as well?

    Last edited by LazyCat08; 08-30-2008 at 06:18 PM.
    bhp

  2. #2
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    This is just one opinion, but it seems that LE charged her with crimes of sufficient magnitude, of which they feel they have sufficient evidence to go forward fairly quickly and get convictions at trial. I have no problem with this at all, whatever else they may be thinking or however this fits into some other strategy they may have. There is enough evidence to charge her so to me there is no unfairness. I don't see that it matters which members of LE arrest her or whether they harbor hopes of far more serious charges in the end. There's a small, defenseless child missing, and if CA or you or I obstructed and misled LE while time ticked away, I expect we'd be charged and in jail, too. Before the new bad check charges, there was discussion that the maximum sentence if convicted of all the crimes was about 6 years. We can hope that's not the only penalty she ever suffers if she is guilty of harming Caylee.

    I do think they also were glad to charge her so that they could hold her in jail, since she could not meet bail (like many criminal defendants), hoping it would exert some immediate pressure on CA to tell the truth, or at least the part that would allow them to find Caylee. I expect they will continue to investigate, while test results come in and they and others look for Caylee. The passage of time is not on the side of LE, in the event there is a body and not a live person to find. CA knows this, and this is where she gets the fairly shocking wherewithal to look seasoned cops in the eye and lie and stonewall. While they were within their rights to do so, this is the reason I wish the BH's had not posted her bond and upset the dynamics, which had a limited time within which to work. Water under the bridge now. Maybe she never would have talked.

    I'm not saying it's always a good thing, but criminal defendants get sent to prison in the US every day on circumstantial evidence cases. There can be incredibly strong circumstantial evidence, and there is nothing inherently bad or untrustworthy about it. I think there will be enough to charge CA of serious crime(s) with the direct and other evidence LE has collected, including all the evidence of consciousness of guilt if there is evidence of death, whether they find a body or not. My first preference is of course that they find a live Caylee, but it has been so long . . . . I don't expect CA will take the immunity deal and lead them to the body. She couldn't really be sure that it wouldn't still provide damning evidence, so it doesn't seem she will risk it. She's a lost cause. Whether a jury will ultimately convict her, if she's charged, who knows.

  3. #3
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    Good questions Brie! I wish I knew all the answers.

    I did find a CNN link to the "Body Farm". Seems this technology isn't as new as we first thought.
    http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/...arm/index.html

    I haven't heard anything reported on the DNA evidence from the trunk of the car.
    "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere!" MLK, Jr.

  4. #4
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    Brie

    Excellent questions! Sorry, I'm not the one who has the 'legal' knowledge to answer your questions. The reason I'm replying to you is that you missed the major 'evidence' of this case: Casye's demeanor. This alone is the most crutial evidence of all! When something happens to your own child (missing, kidnapped, stolen, accident, even sick) - MOTHER reacts on pure natural instinct (animals does, birds does!) - crying for HELP. I'm talking about 'good mother' like every one is claiming Casey was to Caylee - should do immidietly something: call 911, call friends, relatives...I don't know whom, but do something . If she was such a good mother for almost 3 years - what happens on the day Caylee vanished? Nobody knows the date it happens. Even Casey confused WHEN it happens. Remember? Originaly, she said June 9...and after, June 16...But the most important, it's not Casey who asked for help. It was her mother (Caylee's grandmother) who alarmed LE, family, freinds, media...Casey NEVER asked for help to find her daughter!!!! NEVER!!! And up to day, she done nothing to help the search of her daughter. These 12 future jury members who's not neccessarly educated in DNA and other scientific evidences, will weight heavily on mother-Casey 'demeanor evidence'. I would! You would! No, she'll never walk free. Not on this earth.

  5. #5
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    Here's some info on how they do the air testing:

    http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/...ticle_18.shtml


    At the University of Tennessee Anthropological Research Facility (dubbed the Body Farm), Vass and his colleagues found that donated dead bodies lying on the surface or buried in shallow graves emitted more than 400 different volatile compounds. The researchers are honing in on groups of chemicals that are consistently emitted for each stage of decomposition: fresh, bloated, decayed, and skeletonized.

    "We identified fluorinated compounds coming out as vapors from buried bodies," Vass says. "Since Americans drink fluorinated water, it may be possible that, as dead bodies decompose, fluorine combines with hydrocarbon compounds, generating an odor. We'd like to test whether cadaver dogs key in on these compounds."

    ----


    I have a feeling the prosecutor WILL try to get this admitted into evidence & will let a jury decide whether the expert witness makes a good case.

    Remember, DNA testing was once new & there had to be a test case for that as well.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brie View Post
    Sorry this is a long one.

    I have some serious questions regarding this case for anyone with a lot of legal and/or LE knowledge:


    1. So far Casey is charged with theft, check fraud, child neglect and hindering the investigation by lying to LE. How long can she be kept in jail on these charges. Why did LE wait to charge her with check fraud until last night. Is there a strategy behind this? If she is convicted on all of these charges only what is the maximum penalty FL?

    2. I read that the body farm testing is admissible in court in a murder trial and is almost as good as DNA evidence....but they also said this kind of testing is a relatively "new" kind of testing for LE to use.
    What is the chance that the results could be wrong or misleading and how would that look to a judge and jury if that's all they have against her? How much do they really know about it? From a legal perspective how likely is it that this would hold up in court if she were brought to trial.

    3. They claim to have DNA evidence from hair found in the trunk but they also said that it could be Casey's or Caylee's and since they are mother and daughter how conclusive is that really?
    (How much hair are we talking about? One strand or a clump? because I know I shed worse that my cat does and I could guarantee that my hair would be on, in, and around almost anything that I come in contact with. It doesn't seem to necessarily mean much that hair was found in the family car...even in the trunk.)

    4. What is the status of the test on the "FLUID" found in the car? I've heard very little about it but it seems like this could be the best evidence they have if it is from Caylee's body. It seems that it would be extremely difficult for Casey to explain how blood, urine or vomit, etc. from a 3 year old got into the TRUNK of a car......a car that just happens to also smell of human decomposition.

    5. While all this evidence is compelling and went considered together I believe most people would suspect foul play, there seems to be NO TANGIBLE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE to prove that Casey harmed her daughter. If all of this evidence along with the cadaver dogs alert were enough to convict her of a murder then WHY hasn't she been charged yet. Do you think that LE is keeping a bombshell under wraps until they have exhausted all search options or hope of locating the body.....the whole things leads me to believe that LE knows that they no matter what we all suspect, they do not have a case......leading to my final question:

    6. It has been AT LEAST over a month since this child was seem alive. If she is dead and buried or hidden what are the chances that there is anything left of the body at this point except bones? I believe that mother nature could pretty much dissolve a body in as little as too weeks in such a hot damp climate. What does this mean for Casey? If they find remains but cannot determine the cause of death or they NEVER find Caylee and Casey NEVER talks, could Casey simply walk away from the apparent disappearance of her daughter with no further charges?


    Believe me, I am not trying to argue her innocence in the least.
    I fully believe that Casey Anthony is a severely troubled young woman and that she definitely had something to do with Caylee's disappearance. Additionally it seems that her parents have only compounded her problems by denying the truth and failing to get her professional help a long time ago.
    Do you think her lawyer is telling her to just keep quiet because LE doesn't have a case?

    In cases where people have been convicted without a body or physical evidence there is usually some kind of eye witness testimony or something to link the person to the actual commission of a crime or the intent to commit a crime.......pre-meditation or something. All we really see her is a girl with a lot of problems who became a mother too young and didn't really want to responsibility. But didn't most people said she was a loving mother to her child? She may have expressed doubts about her life with Caylee, that seems some what normal under the circumstances.
    Also if a dead body were moved from the yard into the car and transported some where like the dumpster the store parking lot would the dogs not be able to follow the sent to some degree and would they not alert on the dumpster as well?

    1. The check fraud charges are completely seperate from anything related to Caylee. She was arrested now for them because that is when all the reports and paperwork came back. Amy filed the necesary paperwork, then they were waiting on the Banks records and investigation, which takes about a month to get back.

    2. The body farm testing. Heres basically what it is. They are using proven and commonly used tests ina new way. So it is not something new. Gas Chromotogrophy (or however it is spelled or pronounced) has been used to analyze forensics for years. The only new element is that the body farm has done studies to quantify what the exact gas profile of a decomposing body is. I don't believe they could hinge an entire case on the new tests yet. But it is probably quite solid to be used to back up other evidence (the dog hits, the investigators report on the smell, Cindy's excited utterance).

    3. The quick DNA test can not always rule out close family members. The more specific one can, but takes longer. This is why the current results are viewed as preliminary.

    4. No actual results on those tests have been publicly released, beyond the leaked rumor that it does contain signs of human decomposition.

    5. The physical evidence found so far can prove that Caylee is dead, but not how she died. Hence why the prosecutors have the limited immunity deal on the table. They really want the body in part to determine or rule out mechanism of death.

    6. There is always something to find. But alot of the forensic evidence will be corrupted after so long a period of time.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trapshooter View Post
    Good questions Brie! I wish I knew all the answers.

    I did find a CNN link to the "Body Farm". Seems this technology isn't as new as we first thought.
    http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/...arm/index.html

    I haven't heard anything reported on the DNA evidence from the trunk of the car.
    I watched a show on Discovery Channel I believe, about the body farm a few years ago. It was quite interesting. Bodies all over a fenced in area in different states of decomposition. I would think with all the talk of the body farm these days it will be shown again. If I see it listed I'll post it.

  8. #8
    It has been reported that:

    'STATE ATTORNEY COMMENTS ON DNA EVIDENCE

    For the first time, Orange County State Attorney Lawson Lamar weighed in on the evidence in the case Friday. Eyewitness News broke the story Wednesday that DNA evidence reveals Caylee Anthony's body was in her mother's trunk and it shows decomposition that Caylee was dead.

    "Law enforcement prosecution throughout all of this has been hoping and praying we find this child a live. That hope has been somewhat diminished by recent forensics," Lamar said.

    Despite the evidence, the offer of limited immunity to Casey Anthony remains. An email from prosecutors confirms Anthony's lawyer, Jose Baez, asked for it several weeks ago. The deal means that anything the 22-year-old mother says to investigators would not be used against her in court, only the evidence found.

    "The initial thought of offering that level of immunity was that we might gain some information that would lead us to the missing child," Lamar said.

    So far, Casey Anthony has not said a word. The State Attorney's Office is waiting for the sheriff's office to send over what's called a "fact package," which includes all the forensic evidence.

    Lamar told Eyewitness News he isn't rushing the sheriff's office for that packet. The offer of limited immunity will expire on Tuesday
    http://www.wftv.com/news/17340180/detail.html

    Bondsman rescinds Casey Anthony's bail

    Hours before she was to see a judge this morning on new charges, the earlier bail keeping Casey Anthony -- mother of missing 3-year-old Caylee Marie -- out of jail was rescinded early Saturday by the Clearwater bondsman who helped secure her freedom last week.Al Estes Bail Bond Agency of Clearwater endorsed, or turned in, the bail bond on the original charges. Anthony again is being held on those original counts as well. Officials were expected to retrieve the ankle-monitoring system from her parents' home, pretty much ruling out any immediate release.

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,3047015.story



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