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    Searching for Seka

    In response to my post on a Croatian forum, I received an e-mail from a person who lives close to Skradin. He is offering to help search for Seka.

    He says he is very familiar with Skradin, as well as with Belgrade, and has friends in both places.

    He also says that Serbs generally did not sell their houses in Skradin due to the war, so he believes it is likely that Seka's family still owns a house there. However, he is going to check the Land Registry for any registered house sales and any other information which could help identify Seka and her family. He will also talk to older people residing there.

    I will let you know what happens.

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    Who is Seka?

    Let me remind everyone why we are looking for Seka. We know that she was in contact with the Georges over quite some period of time in San Francisco. We have copies of George Brody's correspondence to Seka as well as a post card she sent to "Mr. George" from Belgrade. She almost certainly would be able to furnish some pieces of the puzzle, but up until KivaSupporter came on board, we were not able to track her down...despite quite a few heroic attempts. We are much obliged to KS for her assistance on this.

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    Do we know why she was in San Fran? Maybe she was a student? Maybe we could check student records at the local colleges? I will go back and re-read everything, so I don't have to keep asking questions....

    Quote Originally Posted by Annasmom View Post
    Let me remind everyone why we are looking for Seka. We know that she was in contact with the Georges over quite some period of time in San Francisco. We have copies of George Brody's correspondence to Seka as well as a post card she sent to "Mr. George" from Belgrade. She almost certainly would be able to furnish some pieces of the puzzle, but up until KivaSupporter came on board, we were not able to track her down...despite quite a few heroic attempts. We are much obliged to KS for her assistance on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julessleuther View Post
    Do we know why she was in San Fran? Maybe she was a student? Maybe we could check student records at the local colleges? I will go back and re-read everything, so I don't have to keep asking questions....

    I believe she was a student and also working part-time. Do you know how to get copies of student records? I could identify Serbian names.

    Thanks.

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    This morning I received a very nice e-mail from a person in Serbia who had seen my message on a Serbian forum.

    She sent me contact information for a Serbian Orthodox church in Skradin, a local municipal administration office, and a widely-read regional newspaper where we could place an ad or possibly publish an article.

    She is offering to help but does not know how to proceed without Seka's last name.

    I will work on all the above suggestions.

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    Anna's mom, is there any way you could figure out the words which were crossed out on the postcard from Seka to Mr. George? I believe that would be extremely helpful.

    Does anyone know if there is a way to lift the ink from the paper (used to cross out the words) leaving the words (probably written with a ballpoint pen) visible?

  7. #7
    I believe Ms. Walla, the handwriting expert, has a way to determine what is written before it was scribbled out. I would suggest e-mailing this to Ms. Walla to see if she can help.

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    Seka scribble

    Quote Originally Posted by SherlockJr View Post
    I believe Ms. Walla, the handwriting expert, has a way to determine what is written before it was scribbled out. I would suggest e-mailing this to Ms. Walla to see if she can help.
    Here is the card again, plus an enlargement of the scribbled-out part. Should I re-post the typed copies of the letters to Seka?
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Just a comment about the note: If George could understand Sekas language, wouldn't she have written in Croatian, rather than English? Perhaps if she was student, she was a nursing student and worked with George W? I wonder if the places George W worked have an records for her?


    Do we know Sekas last name?
    Last edited by Julessleuther; 09-02-2008 at 03:12 AM. Reason: misspelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julessleuther View Post
    Just a comment about the note: If George could understand Sekas language, wouldn't she have written in Croatian, rather than English? Perhaps if she was student, she was a nursing student and worked with George W? I wonder if the places George W worked have an records for her?


    Do we know Sekas last name?
    Good point about the language.

    Seka's last name is unknown. That's why it has been so hard to find out who she is...also the fact that Seka is a commonly used nickname, meaning "Little Sister".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julessleuther View Post
    Just a comment about the note: If George could understand Sekas language, wouldn't she have written in Croatian, rather than English? Perhaps if she was student, she was a nursing student and worked with George W? I wonder if the places George W worked have an records for her?


    Do we know Sekas last name?
    Since the only surviving example of Seka's own handwriting was addressed to "Mr. George", it could well have been meant for GW instead of GB. Although the typed copies of the letters to her are in GB's "picturesque" way of writing, remember that GW wanted to model himself on GB and frequently had GB dictate letters which he (GW) then signed. Given that Seka seems to be a nice young girl from a good family, it is more likely that she would want to be friends with a youngish American doctor than with a strange old coot.

    It was a pattern which was often repeated. GW would introduce a friend to GB in hopes that someone else would worship him as he did. When this did not happen, GW would then "sever relations" with the former friend. This is the term he used. It then served to further isolate him from any normal reality check. So sad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Annasmom View Post
    Since the only surviving example of Seka's own handwriting was addressed to "Mr. George", it could well have been meant for GW instead of GB...Given that Seka seems to be a nice young girl from a good family, it is more likely that she would want to be friends with a youngish American doctor than with a strange old coot...
    I agree with this analysis. At first, I thought that "Mr. George" was Brody, but this makes more sense considering the "romantic" nature of the communications.

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    Did Ms. Walla provide her services regarding Anna free-of-charge?

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    Naturalization Records

    Is there anyone who lives in or close to San Bruno, California willing to visit the National Archives and Records Administration?

    I received information from the NARA Headquarters that Naturalization records are kept in their regional facilities and are public records. The regional office applying to San Francisco is located in San Bruno.

    http://archives.gov/pacific/san-francisco/gil.pdf

    I am guessing that Seka, after graduating, stayed in the US in or near San Francisco and was naturalized around 1985 or so. In those days, the requirement for requesting naturalization was five years in the US for persons with green cards. The process was different from the one today.

    I believe there was only one naturalization date per year per regional Immigration & Naturalization Office.

    Since we do not know Seka's last name yet, we would need a copy of all the naturalized citizens for the years from 1985 till (1989?) for that region. I believe I could identify Serbian names. Also, if I remember correctly, the country of origin is shown for each person.

    Anyone willing to give it a try?

    I would be happy to do it myself but I am on the East coast.

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    Just received an e-mail from the person from the Croatian forum who had previously responded:

    "I will go to Skradin and spend 2-3 days there. First, I will try to find out Seka's first and last names by talking to older residents, hotel and restaurant owners, taxi drivers, and shop owners. Then, I will go to the police station to see if they could help. Then, I will go to Belgrade.

    It is possible that Seka's family has permanently moved to Skradin, due to the poor economic situation in Serbia. Many people who have houses in Skradin have done so."

    I am hoping for the best.

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    Obliterated Text

    KivaSupporter researched methods for recovering obliterated text such as the scribbled-out words on Seka's postcard from Belgrade, and she has made arrangements for an expert to do this. The card is on the way via Registered Mail. Many, many thanks to KS for managing this. Whether or not the deleted words mean anything or not, we will not know unless we find what they were.

  20. #17
    KivaSupporter, you are awesome!
    Can't wait for the results.

    * I have been searching more on the Seka who was the porn star, tho her bio says she was born in the USA, I wonder? Was this gal a white/ girl or from somewher else, sorry if this sounds crazy... the whole enamoured feel from George whoever about Seka is very interesting despite the pure good family life she apparently came from. Makes me think what on earth would a young girl like that be facscinated by the two G's! Reallly.

    Just thinking........

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    I saw her info too, and at one point in time, I believe she was in San Francisco. I will see if I can find the info! Opps, nevermind-- I guess she did a movie, Blond in San Francisco. I did find this, however. COuld our Seka be a massage therapist?
    http://www.loriloo.com/2004/08/wisdom-of-seka


    Quote Originally Posted by SideKick View Post
    KivaSupporter, you are awesome!
    Can't wait for the results.

    * I have been searching more on the Seka who was the porn star, tho her bio says she was born in the USA, I wonder? Was this gal a white/ girl or from somewher else, sorry if this sounds crazy... the whole enamoured feel from George whoever about Seka is very interesting despite the pure good family life she apparently came from. Makes me think what on earth would a young girl like that be facscinated by the two G's! Reallly.

    Just thinking........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julessleuther View Post
    I saw her info too, and at one point in time, I believe she was in San Francisco. I will see if I can find the info! Opps, nevermind-- I guess she did a movie, Blond in San Francisco. I did find this, however. COuld our Seka be a massage therapist?
    http://www.loriloo.com/2004/08/wisdom-of-seka
    I thought Doogie said the actress Seka was Asian and therefore not the one we were looking forl

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    Doogie later corrected himself. It turned out she was blond, and not Asian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SideKick View Post
    KivaSupporter, you are awesome!
    Can't wait for the results.

    * I have been searching more on the Seka who was the porn star, tho her bio says she was born in the USA, I wonder? Was this gal a white/ girl or from somewher else, sorry if this sounds crazy... the whole enamoured feel from George whoever about Seka is very interesting despite the pure good family life she apparently came from. Makes me think what on earth would a young girl like that be facscinated by the two G's! Reallly.

    Just thinking........
    Well, if you met the younger George by himself and he was in an environment where he couldn't conveniently start parroting GB's "philosophy", you'd see a very handsome, idealistic Ivy League-educated physician from a good family...

  25. #22
    Annasmom,

    George W was definitely a stunning looking man, and his intelligence also attractive. What I mean't was a young girl meeting 2 older men, George W., was still older than Seka as we know GB most def. was. I ponder what she was interested in despite Waters being an attractive man. What was the relationship? GB said something about Seka acquiring her own room soon. I thought maybe she did work in a nightclub of sorts part time and if so, she could be the Seka currently in SF?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SideKick View Post
    Annasmom,

    George W was definitely a stunning looking man, and his intelligence also attractive. What I mean't was a young girl meeting 2 older men, George W., was still older than Seka as we know GB most def. was. I ponder what she was interested in despite Waters being an attractive man. What was the relationship? GB said something about Seka acquiring her own room soon. I thought maybe she did work in a nightclub of sorts part time and if so, she could be the Seka currently in SF?
    I'm more or less assuming GW met her at his work somehow. I really don't think the SF Seka is the one we're looking for. Otherwise, it's hard to explain how long she seemed to stay in touch with one or the other of the Georges, since their rant drove people away pretty quickly. In 1976, when the correspondence began, GW would have been only 37. Now, I know I'm an AARP member, but that seems really young to me!

    Also, I should add that the Georges had a very specific meaning for the word "Romantic". They didn't necessarily mean lovey-dovey when they used this word. They referred to "Romantic Types". GB considered himself a Romantic and believed that was why he was so attractive to both men and women, urp.
    Last edited by Annasmom; 09-05-2008 at 05:02 PM. Reason: Additional sentences

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    Quote Originally Posted by Annasmom View Post
    I'm more or less assuming GW met her at his work somehow. I really don't think the SF Seka is the one we're looking for. Otherwise, it's hard to explain how long she seemed to stay in touch with one or the other of the Georges, since their rant drove people away pretty quickly. In 1976, when the correspondence began, GW would have been only 37. Now, I know I'm an AARP member, but that seems really young to me!

    Also, I should add that the Georges had a very specific meaning for the word "Romantic". They didn't necessarily mean lovey-dovey when they used this word. They referred to "Romantic Types". GB considered himself a Romantic and believed that was why he was so attractive to both men and women, urp.
    I understand exactly what you mean. My sister is a Romanticist. Not necessarily "Romantic" in the true sense of the word, but has this romantic notion that the world is a bed of roses, everyone is trustworthy and that everybody loves and adores her... I can't say it's really a "Bad" thing, as it seems that everyone does seem to bow down to her...LOL I wonder if that is what the Georges meant when they called Seka a "Romantic"

    As far as Brody considering himself as a romanticist, that had to be his delusional thinking at work. I don't think you can be paranoid and a romanticist at the same time.

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    Naturalization Records

    I just received this from NARA San Bruno, Ca:

    This is response to your e-mail dated September 5, 2008 concerning Petitions for Naturalization for San Francisco for the years 1985-90.

    The holdings of the Archival Records Operations Unit (NRHA-S) of the National Archives and Records Administration - Pacific Region (San Francisco) includes approximately 56,500 cubic feet of original records generated by Federal courts and agency field offices within our region from the 1850s to the 1970s. Our region covers northern and central California, Nevada (except Clark County), Hawaii, American Samoa, and the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands. We also have a large collection of National Archives microfilm publications, including all extant Federal population census schedules from 1790 to 1930 for the entire United States.

    On March 26, 1790, Congress passed an act (1 Stat. 103) that allowed any individual seeking citizenship to apply to any court of record in a state where he or she lived for one year. Before September 27, 1906, an alien could seek citizenship through any Federal, state, or local court. As a result, you need to know to which court an immigrant submitted the application for naturalization.

    There is no central repository for all naturalizations that ever occurred in the United States between March 26, 1790 and the present. The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) only have custody of records of naturalizations that occurred in Federal courts prior to ca. 1975. Fortunately for the time period you are inquiring about (1985-90), naturalizations only occurred in U.S. District Courts. Unfortunately, the actual records you are seeking (the original Petitions for Naturalization) are still in the custody of the U.S. District Court in San Francisco.
    Our facility holds some naturalization records transferred from Federal courts in northern California, Hawaii, and Nevada. U.S. district and circuit courts in Honolulu, Reno, Sacramento, and San Francisco originated these naturalization records. In addition to these Federal court records, we hold naturalization records of two Nevada state courts, the First District Court of Nevada at Fallon (Churchill County) and the Second District Court of Nevada at Reno (Washoe County), and one California county court, the Marin County Superior Court. These latter state- and local-level holdings are exemptions to the rule.

    Our records document naturalization proceedings performed during the specified time periods in the following courts:

    District Court, Northern District of California (San Francisco), 1851-1973
    Circuit Court, Northern District of California (San Francisco), 1855-1911
    District Court, Eastern District of California (Sacramento), 1917-74
    District Court, District of Hawaii, 1900-91
    District Court, District of Nevada, 1868-1929 (microfilm only)
    State Court, First District, Churchill County, Fallon, Nevada, 1877-1956
    State Court, Second District, Washoe County, Reno, Nevada, 1853-1949
    Superior Court, Marin County, California, 1871-1957

    Since October 1906 most naturalizations have been performed in Federal district courts. Generally, each U.S. District Court maintains card indexes to naturalization records filed in that court from 1906 (or earlier) to the present. Among our microfilm holdings is National Archives microfilm publication M1744 entitled Index to Naturalizations in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, 1852 - ca. 1989 and Naturalizations in the U.S. Circuit Court for the Northern District of California, 1855 - 1911.

    The entire series includes 165 rolls of microfilm, but there are some substantial gaps in the alphabetic sequence. Fortunately, the original index cards still exist in our custody. We can perform a search of this NARA microfilm publication if you provide us with the name(s) of the person(s) you are interested in. We should be able to provide you with the person's petition number, which you can then use to contact the Clerk of the Court of the U.S. District Court for the District of Northern California, Southern Division (San Francisco) to receive a copy of the actual record (Petition for Naturalization). For more information, please contact:

    U.S. District Court
    Northern District of California (Southern Division)
    Attn: Clerk of the Court
    450 Golden Gate Avenue Floor 16
    San Francisco, CA 94102-3426
    Telephone: 415-522-4151
    FAX: 415-522-2176
    URL: http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/


    Thank you for the opportunity to serve you; I trust the information furnished will be of benefit to you. If I can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.

    Sincerely,
    J. S., Archives Technician
    NARA - Pacific Region (San Francisco)
    Archival Records Operations (NRHA-S)
    1000 Commodore Drive
    San Bruno, CA 94066-2350
    Telephone: 650-238-3487
    FAX: 650-238-3510
    URL: http://www.archives.gov/pacific/san-...sco/index.html

    I am not aware whether the Clerk of the Court has access to NARA microfilm publication M1744 or if they have some other way of searching for the aforementioned petitions (perhaps an electronic index), but you can contact the court directly to inquire about their procedures and the costs associated with securing copies of the documents you are requesting.

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