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  1. #1
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    How and where did George and Margaret meet?

    I hope I am not out of line starting a new thread, and I apologize if this is already discussed, but if we can find out exactly how and where they met, we might have more of a clue of who George is?


    1. Where did they meet?

    2. What year did they start living together?

    3. Did he meet her at Letterman? Was he a soldier? A Dr?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julessleuther View Post
    I hope I am not out of line starting a new thread, and I apologize if this is already discussed, but if we can find out exactly how and where they met, we might have more of a clue of who George is?


    1. Where did they meet?

    2. What year did they start living together?

    3. Did he meet her at Letterman? Was he a soldier? A Dr?
    This older post by Doogie has a little information.
    A-HA!!!

    I have uncovered additional information about George Brody. I can now place him living in Oakland as early as 1936 from the Voter Register records, near where the safe deposit box was uncovered. And to be a registered voter in 1936, he would have needed to be at least 21 years old, which makes his birth year - at the latest - 1915 (not 1923 as claimed).

    He lists his profession as "salesman" in 1936. He then lists his profession as "Jr. Research Assistant" from 1938 through Novermber of 1944. Based on this, we can assume that he did not serve in the military during World War II. Also, Margaret Kukoda is not listed as living at the same addresses as Brody, so they must have met later. This also eliminates the possibility that Brody came west with Margaret during the War and that they knew each other in Pennsylvania.

    One point for anyone who wants to follow up on this: there is a second George Brody who was living in San Francisco during roughly this same time period. His wife's name is Margaret, but they are not our Brody and Kukoda - this Margaret is twenty years older than Kukoda and was living in San Francisco when Kukoda was still in Pennsylvania. Just to make matters more confusing, both Margaret's were born in New Jersey. ARRGGHH!!!
    _____________

  3. #3
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    Sorry for the delay in responding to your questions, Julessleuther.

    Quote Originally Posted by Julessleuther View Post
    1. Where did they meet?
    Since Brody was in CA since (at least) 1936, they must have met in the Bay Area after she arrived in 1942.

    Quote Originally Posted by Julessleuther View Post
    2. What year did they start living together?
    I believe that the landlord's relative said that they had lived together since at least the early 1960's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Julessleuther View Post
    3. Did he meet her at Letterman? Was he a soldier? A Dr?
    Since Brody was not in the military during the war and did not list his profession as a doctor or a nurse, my suspicion is that they did not meet through her work. Based on his later behaviors, they may have met at a coffee shop, but that is pure speculation.
    Order the book "Searching For Anna" directly from [URL="http://www.lulu.com/conte

  4. #4
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    Thank you Annasmom and Doogie. I will run with this... Am I allowed to take all info found on Margaret from the other threads and add it here, so we have one source for all Margaret and George in one spot? Meaning, all info on Margaret, and all info on Margaret and George together?

  5. #5
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    Absolutely!

    When posting information about Margaret, it is important that we only post known facts about her, not speculation unless it is clearly noted as such and is reasonable. This is because she does have living relatives who are aware of our site and it would be improper to post baseless and hurtful theories without justification. Just use your best judgement.
    Order the book "Searching For Anna" directly from [URL="http://www.lulu.com/conte

  6. #6
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    Ok, absolutely!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Doogie View Post
    Absolutely!

    When posting information about Margaret, it is important that we only post known facts about her, not speculation unless it is clearly noted as such and is reasonable. This is because she does have living relatives who are aware of our site and it would be improper to post baseless and hurtful theories without justification. Just use your best judgement.

  7. #7
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    iNTERESTEDWOMAN is offline I'll trade you a bushel of corn for a barrel of oil.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julessleuther View Post
    Ok, absolutely!
    Jules, I have a TON of information on MK and her family history. If you are looking for something specific in regards to her "roots" let me know, I probably have the info. Also, in the US census, there were several variations of her last name over the years, In 1930 most of the family was going by Kukoda, but a couple of brothers were going by another variation, (spelling).

  8. #8
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    I think I am looking for specific information from the time she arrived into San Francisco until the time she died. I am trying to pinpoint where and how she and George B met. If we can get to that point, we might be able to trace back from there for George. Any info you can give me will be SO appreciative. You can PM me if you want. Thank you!!

    Quote Originally Posted by iNTERESTEDWOMAN View Post
    Jules, I have a TON of information on MK and her family history. If you are looking for something specific in regards to her "roots" let me know, I probably have the info. Also, in the US census, there were several variations of her last name over the years, In 1930 most of the family was going by Kukoda, but a couple of brothers were going by another variation, (spelling).

  9. #9
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    Margaret Kukoda..?

    Hi all,
    for first thing I'm sorry for my bad english... so please to accept my apologies...
    Following my own idea abt this case in other thread, however, because in this story it is also Margaret Kukoda name, I made a little search.
    I found a very interesting record, and I believe that could be abt right Margaret Kukoda of this case.
    Please to see this article:
    Poughkeepsie NY Evening Star and Enterprise 1939 - 1512 with picture
    and this 1940
    and of 1941
    any suggestion?
    Regards, raf

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by raf View Post
    Hi all,
    for first thing I'm sorry for my bad english... so please to accept my apologies...
    Following my own idea abt this case in other thread, however, because in this story it is also Margaret Kukoda name, I made a little search.
    I found a very interesting record, and I believe that could be abt right Margaret Kukoda of this case.
    Please to see this article:
    Poughkeepsie NY Evening Star and Enterprise 1939 - 1512 with picture
    and this 1940
    and of 1941
    any suggestion?
    Regards, raf

    Wow Raf!!!!! I think you found Russell!!! The 1941 article list a name of Russell DeVor.


  11. #11

    DeVor death record

    RUSSELL DEVOR
    06 Aug 1914-Oct 1982
    91205 (Glendale, Los Angeles, CA)
    91205 (Glendale, Los Angeles, CA)
    374-18-9940
    Michigan

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by raf View Post
    Hi all,
    for first thing I'm sorry for my bad english... so please to accept my apologies...
    Following my own idea abt this case in other thread, however, because in this story it is also Margaret Kukoda name, I made a little search.
    I found a very interesting record, and I believe that could be abt right Margaret Kukoda of this case.
    Please to see this article:
    Poughkeepsie NY Evening Star and Enterprise 1939 - 1512 with picture
    and this 1940
    and of 1941
    any suggestion?
    Regards, raf

    Your English is good, Raf. Thank you very much for this valuable information.
    Please tell us about your idea about this case in the other thread.

  13. #13
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    Hi, thanks for kind words... I know not if this Russell is the same friend of Margaret; however this Russell DeVor (Russell Arthur DeVor) was in Poughkeepsie NY around 1927/1941 sure; son of Charles A and Eveline DeVor... (source)
    also I see a good resemblance abt Margaret Kukoda in the picture of article and last Margaret Kukoda picture
    I believe is she... It seems that was a brilliant girl, so different from Margaret Kukoda in the last part of life...




    Thanks to all, raf

    PS: in other forum on this website, thinking that the passport of man that I found of New York (Manhattan), having a good resemblance with GB


    this man having some coincidence with GB... I know that he had some relation with Fordham University in NYC, and in this University in the:
    1912-Jung to Fordham University of New York
    Carl G. Jung on Astrology
    We are born at a given moment in a given place and like vintage years of wine we have the qualities of the year and of the season in which we are born. - C.G.Jung
    and abt the numerology in 1929:
    There is really a curious coincidence between astrological and psychological facts, so that one can isolate time from the characteristics of an individual, and also, one can deduce characteristics from a certain time. Therefore we have to conclude that what we call psychological motives are in a way identical with star positions . . . We must form a peculiar hypothesis. This hypothesis says that the dynamics of our psyche is not just identical with the position of the stars . . . better to assume that it is a phenomenon of time - Carl G. Jung in 1929
    and other points that let me thinking... so I was searching if Margaret Kukoda also was in NY state in some year of her life, and now I believe that I found... Margaret was a nurse... this man made many trips for health... so I wish to search more... I know not if this man was in some politic arrangement or so... but he was of rich family of irish heritage, he never worked, never married, also if I think that he had a woman... he made so much of intentional confusion abt him birthdate...and for this I suspect... from what I read on Box in the Hell, it seem as a man that wish seeming more young, maybe with GW identity... also I suspect that this man of good and rich family, he found no 1 withness for second passport that was expired... strange.. no the brother, no the sister, no nobody able to make as witness for him passport? strange, but equally he travelled in 1929... I cannot find the 3 passport if he had it!

    I'm searching in my free time... I cannot find it in 1930 census, better: I found the census abt last him address in 1929, but he is not... it is a woman with him surname declaring married ( on 1929 the man was single) and with 2 children with man surname... it are so much discrepances... however searching and searching ... God will help us..

  14. #14
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    Raf, you are really good at this. Thank you so much for sharing this information.

  15. #15
    Doing a quick search for Jung on WS, this is what comes up...

    Quote Originally Posted by Annasmom View Post
    Doogie, the dream came first. But since we're talking about dreams, I might mention the extremely vivid dream I had a few days after Anna disappeared where she asked me "Why did you fire me?" Since of course I would NEVER EVER under any circumstances fire her (and doubted that she even knew that word), I wondered at the time if someone had told her this by way of explaining why they were taking her away from home. I am awfully skeptical about dreams, but I know Jung and the Talmud take them very seriously.
    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Harrold View Post
    These are just ideas and speculations: Dr Doogie & Annasmom - In the BFH, among the rantings, are there many that relate GB's theories to; tarot card readings/tarot card imagery, the hebrew alphabet, demonology, the Knights Templar, astral projection or The Rose Cross (Rosy Cross, Christian Rosenkreutz?) Because, I'm not getting much an "occultist" vibe from what I've read about GB so far in these forums. Also, I've read that he considered himself "a messiah", but did he or GW recite and/or spout off quotes from religious texts on a regular basis?
    At this point, GB looks more like he was into the kind of mystical psychology/ psychiatry that Freud was referring to when he warned Carl Jung: "Never abandon the sexual theory, Carl, its the only thing which separates us from the occultists" (or something like that).
    There is a connection between certain schools of psychology (not necessarily popular today) and certain "flavors" of Socialism. Wilhelm Reich, another member of Freud's Vienna Psychoanalytic Association, wrote the definitive psychological analysis of Fascism - the political mortal enemy of the early socialists and communists - titled: "The Mass Psychology of Fascism". Could GB have been a cross between a Socialist theorist and a failed mystical psychology "analyst"? Perhaps he dumped an earlier identity during or shortly after WW2, because he had been a communist in his youth?
    [I must apologize. I read most of this forum in one (looong) sitting and should have made better notes for myself. I got GW's sister (member of the Socialist Workers Party) confused in my mind with Margaret Kukoda. That's why I thought a link between some of the more mystical schools of psychology and some Socialist 'sects' might be interesting. Now that I understand the link to Socialism(s) is thru George Waters' family, that idea (in the preceding paragraph) seems of little relevance to me.]
    Are there any hints that GW may have become obsessed with GB as a result of Brody predicting/foreseeing the date and circumstances of GW's death - using his mystical psychiatric analysis? They both seemed convinced that GW would pass away before Brody - otherwise, why bother with all the insurance policies? - and convinced that GW would die accidentally.
    They also seemed very concerned that the monies should go to Brody and only Brody. Perhaps they believed GW's foretold death would somehow spark the fulfillment of Brody's mission (giving GW's life, and death, a mystical importance of its own) and that Brody would need a lot of money to enact it?
    The apparent changing of beneficiaries, and evidence that GW was obsessed with ensuring that Brody & only Brody be seen by officialdom as GW's 'next-of-kin' and presumably as GW's only heir in event of his death, could provide motive for GW's daughter to be 'vanished' - the potential threat of a legal challenge from a legally legitimate heir of GW (Anna) to Brody being recognized as GW's next-of-kin and heir?
    Quote Originally Posted by IrishMist View Post
    Little known fact: Carl Jung was instrumental in the formation of AA. I used to drive my psych prof crazy (that in itself is funny) because I could see merits in both Freud and Jung, and he kept trying saying that you had to be one or the other! That was a long time ago, but boy, we had some great discussions!
    Quote Originally Posted by Maral View Post
    Kool Look, Jung was the son of a Protestant minister, Luthern, I believe. But he started to rebel against orthodox Christianity at a young age. I would say that his religious beliefs were closest to New Age.

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