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Thread: All About Chloroform#2

  1. #1
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    All About Chloroform#2

    The first thread has 42 pages to it. Can one of the mods please lock it?

    Thanks,

    Salem
    Last edited by JBean; 09-09-2008 at 08:28 PM.

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    Originally posted by JBean: Just to help in these situations, at the top of each thread is a functuion called search this thread. Often you can put in a key term and see what pops up within this thread only. Try doing a search on the word *level* and see if any results produce useful information to you.
    Just my helpful hint of the day

    JBean - thank you for this tip. I'm still learning my way around here

    OKAY - back to chloroform. I read in the other thread much discussion about whether or not the maggots and flys would survive under chloroform and it seems the general consenus it that they would not. BUT would they survive if they were in the plastic trash bag? It seems to me that the maggots were in the trash bag that was thrown away.

    I think this is a key issue as to when the chloroform was used.

    Salem

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    I'm pretty sure it was said there were flies in the trunk, that escaped when trunk was opened at the tow lot. I did a forum search and there are many references, but I don't have a link the original statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by treeseeker View Post
    I'm pretty sure it was said there were flies in the trunk, that escaped when trunk was opened at the tow lot. I did a forum search and there are many references, but I don't have a link the original statement.
    yes there was, including bug entemology and apparently the flies that came out at the lot when they opened the trunk and found the pizza box and the trash bag (was discared oiver the fence-later recovered by police) were sceond generation flies according to some bug research.

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    So - if bugs would not have survived the chloroform, then the chloroform was put in the car after the tow yard, right? This would lead one to believe that there was chloroform at the Anthony home and that GA &/or CA used it to try to clean the trunk stain?

    Interesting and thank you both, Friptzap and treeseeker for responding.

    Salem

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    So - if bugs would not have survived the chloroform, then the chloroform was put in the car after the tow yard, right? This would lead one to believe that there was chloroform at the Anthony home and that GA &/or CA used it to try to clean the trunk stain?

    Interesting and thank you both, Friptzap and treeseeker for responding.

    Salem
    It was reported on another thread that Cindy asked LE if they wanted any evidence out of the car the day they reported Caylee missing. It looks as though the car was at the A's residence a couple of days before LE came out to search for evidence. It is possible they cleaned the car. My question would be, was there mention of the car odor on that first police report - the day they called to report Caylee missing. Decomp, or something similar to an over-bearing car air freshener? My understanding is that chloroform is sweet, pungent, and can be found in may air fresheners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Friptzap View Post
    yes there was, including bug entemology and apparently the flies that came out at the lot when they opened the trunk and found the pizza box and the trash bag (was discared oiver the fence-later recovered by police) were sceond generation flies according to some bug research.
    didn't they also say there were maggots in the trunk?

    who gets maggots from old pizza? they don't like pizza.

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    I remember it being reported that Cindy asked LE if they wanted anything before she got in the car.

    I don't remember any reports about anything other than the decomp smell which was reported by Cindy, the Tow Guy and LE.

    But if maggots and flys could not live in chloroform, then when and how did it get in the car? AND who would try to clean the car with such chemicals knowing they have basically been outlawed to the general public. AND when did Casey do the searches on her computer. Really skews the timeline.....

    Salem

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    I remember it being reported that Cindy asked LE if they wanted anything before she got in the car.

    I don't remember any reports about anything other than the decomp smell which was reported by Cindy, the Tow Guy and LE.

    But if maggots and flys could not live in chloroform, then when and how did it get in the car? AND who would try to clean the car with such chemicals knowing they have basically been outlawed to the general public. AND when did Casey do the searches on her computer. Really skews the timeline.....

    Salem
    Well, the chloroform is colorless and odorless so maybe they didn't think the police would even find out? It is pretty obvious the car was clean and shiny. It would've never have been that shiny after sitting at a tow yard without being cleaned. The dead body smell was never mentioned in the LE interviews released in the 400 page documents. I wonder if they are keeping that underwraps for now?

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    I have a question about this chloroform.....As I have heard, it is a solvent, also an agent formally used to anesthetize (sp?) patients AND as a way to separate DNA in a lab setting. I'm wondering if someone that knew this used this, in the hopes of damaging any DNA that was left behind??
    Death Leaves A Heartache No One Can Heal. Love Leaves A Memory No One Can Steal. Rest In Peace Caylee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cacnotcam View Post
    I have a question about this chloroform.....As I have heard, it is a solvent, also an agent formally used to anesthetize (sp?) patients AND as a way to separate DNA in a lab setting. I'm wondering if someone that knew this used this, in the hopes of damaging any DNA that was left behind??

    It is hard not to wonder if dads law enforcement background doesnt play a significant role in the complexities of this case. Either she had help or she was more observant than anyone could have guessed. I would imagine that the placement of Caylees body and the difficulty people are having finding her also stems from a knowledge of organized crime. I mean seriously wouldnt the best place to bury a body be in a cemetary, ironically its probably the last place anyone would look.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RasGirl26 View Post
    It is hard not to wonder if dads law enforcement background doesnt play a significant role in the complexities of this case. Either she had help or she was more observant than anyone could have guessed. I would imagine that the placement of Caylees body and the difficulty people are having finding her also stems from a knowledge of organized crime. I mean seriously wouldnt the best place to bury a body be in a cemetary, ironically its probably the last place anyone would look.
    I agree on the crime/knowledge background.....Not saying that KC got direction/help from GA BUT It kind of comes with the territory. My dad was a car guy. Just from growing up around him and cars, I can pretty much identify any make/model just because I grew up around it.
    Death Leaves A Heartache No One Can Heal. Love Leaves A Memory No One Can Steal. Rest In Peace Caylee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RasGirl26 View Post
    It is hard not to wonder if dads law enforcement background doesnt play a significant role in the complexities of this case. Either she had help or she was more observant than anyone could have guessed. I would imagine that the placement of Caylees body and the difficulty people are having finding her also stems from a knowledge of organized crime. I mean seriously wouldnt the best place to bury a body be in a cemetary, ironically its probably the last place anyone would look.
    It would only be suspicious if the family of loved one noticed the dirt had been previously disturbed. Let's face it, some graves never get any visits so it might never even be noticed. But would she really dig that much? And somebody could possibly catch her in the act in a private place......I don't know

  16. #14
    Chloroform has a sweet smell--so it's not odorless
    When you make a monster, sooner of later the villagers get mad and show up at your castle with torches and pitch forks. It's life. Get used to it....

    Unlike the living,when the dead speak,they do not lie.

    Tim Miller says you can't put a price on a childs life--The A's are out to prove him wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by monoxide View Post
    It would only be suspicious if the family of loved one noticed the dirt had been previously disturbed. Let's face it, some graves never get any visits so it might never even be noticed. But would she really dig that much? And somebody could possibly catch her in the act in a private place......I don't know
    I dont really think she dug much if at all, but the point I was making was that she might have a better idea of what would fly and what wouldnt. I would imagine GA discussed cases at home about missing people or finding dead bodies etc. She had an inside perspective most of us wouldnt have. I find myself still not believing that GA or CA had anything to do with it. They soooooo loved Caylee. You can see the anguish when someone even mentions the possibility of her being deceased. so sad!

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    Quote Originally Posted by monoxide View Post
    It would only be suspicious if the family of loved one noticed the dirt had been previously disturbed. Let's face it, some graves never get any visits so it might never even be noticed. But would she really dig that much? And somebody could possibly catch her in the act in a private place......I don't know
    Well, when we buried my cat, oh, about four months ago in the backyard....You can still see that the earth around the area is not right. Granted, we planted a bush there but still. The dirt looks odd. It does not match the rest of the yard. In fact, when we dug the dirt out to bury him (RIP Thomasina) we could not get all the dirt back into the hole, so now we have "extra" dirt around the burial site. When you disturb dirt, it....forgive me for sounding girly......kind of fluffs. There is NO WAY to get all that same dirt back in the hole you dug. No way in hell. Especially if there is extra stuff there...(i.e. body, clothes, whatever.)
    Last edited by cacnotcam; 09-08-2008 at 03:52 AM. Reason: adding on
    Death Leaves A Heartache No One Can Heal. Love Leaves A Memory No One Can Steal. Rest In Peace Caylee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cacnotcam View Post
    Well, when we buried my cat, oh, about four months ago in the backyard....You can still see that the earth around the area is not right. Granted, we planted a bush there but still. The dirt looks odd. It does not match the rest of the yard. In fact, when we dug the dirt out to bury him (RIP Thomasina) we could not get all the dirt back into the hole, so now we have "extra" dirt around the burial site. When you disturb dirt, it....forgive me for sounding girly......kind of fluffs. There is NO WAY to get all that same dirt back in the hole you dug. No way in hell. Especially if there is extra stuff there...(i.e. body, clothes, whatever.)
    True, poor Thomasina

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    Quote Originally Posted by monoxide View Post
    Well, the chloroform is colorless and odorless so maybe they didn't think the police would even find out? It is pretty obvious the car was clean and shiny. It would've never have been that shiny after sitting at a tow yard without being cleaned. The dead body smell was never mentioned in the LE interviews released in the 400 page documents. I wonder if they are keeping that underwraps for now?
    The dead body smell is mentioned several times in the 400 page report. In some of Yuri's statements and his testimony at the bail hearing.

    If I understand the timeline, CA called police late at night on July 15th. It was after hours and after the local police station was essentially closed for the night. Part of her call was asking for an alternate location to bring her daughter to. The car and everything was seized as evidence later in the day on July 16th (I think). I assume the earlier part of the day was when LE were driving KC around as she lied to them about Zanny and Universal, etc.

    Now there seems to be a bigger block of time between when George abd Cindy picked up the car, and the initial 911 calls. Somewhere in there they found Casey, She and Mom were online. George was out? Lee was called in. Just a bit confusing and muddled. Also somewhere in that block of time is when G and C supposedly moved and looked under the playhouse themselves. So who knows what they did to the car during that period?

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    Quote Originally Posted by monoxide View Post
    True, poor Thomasina
    Thanks.....He died in my arms.....I actually brought him "back" once. I did kitty CPR....YES, I did....But It was his time. He was 16. Point being....you CANNOT "bury" anything without ground/dirt disturbance. NO WAY. I speak from experience burying a 10 lb cat. If a 10 lb cat does that, some 4 months later, what the hell would a 30 lb CHILD leave??? It would be way too obvious.
    Death Leaves A Heartache No One Can Heal. Love Leaves A Memory No One Can Steal. Rest In Peace Caylee.

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    Why are animals different??? As far as smells go?? My cat died at about 9:30 P.M. and he sat wrapped in a blanket o my chair in the basement.....Several times throughout the day, I would go down to the chair and pet him and cry. He was cold. He was stiff....Yes, he peed, but he never let out any foul smell. Are humans just different....Or was I just immune??? I have smelled death before. Believe me... You will know it. I never got that from him and it was about 24 hours that he sat in that chair before we buried him. He was wrapped in his little blanket....I was just not willing to let him go.....I carried him to the burial site and never once caught that "smell" which I know. I won't get into details, but I do know what it is.
    Death Leaves A Heartache No One Can Heal. Love Leaves A Memory No One Can Steal. Rest In Peace Caylee.

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    So that would mean that Casey was already home when they got the car back? And if they had no intutition that Caylee was dead why would they have moved her playhouse???? And correct me if im wrong dont people that are close to someone generally have intuitions, I mean I knew my daughter was going to be a girl before I ever knew and I can sense certain things with my husband and children I cant explain. My high school sweetheart and fiancee (same person) passed away and I knew he was dead before anyone told me. You just get those feelings and they have to know, thats why they freaked out in the beginning and let their panic show. I feel now that they have shifted to defending the the little girl who is still alive because it is obvious Casey is still their "little" girl and they must coddle her. IMO

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by cacnotcam View Post
    Why are animals different??? As far as smells go?? My cat died at about 9:30 P.M. and he sat wrapped in a blanket o my chair in the basement.....Several times throughout the day, I would go down to the chair and pet him and cry. He was cold. He was stiff....Yes, he peed, but he never let out any foul smell. Are humans just different....Or was I just immune??? I have smelled death before. Believe me... You will know it. I never got that from him and it was about 24 hours that he sat in that chair before we buried him. He was wrapped in his little blanket....I was just not willing to let him go.....I carried him to the burial site and never once caught that "smell" which I know. I won't get into details, but I do know what it is.
    I assume it'd take forty eight hours or longer for smells to start but again I have no clue

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    Quote Originally Posted by cacnotcam View Post
    Why are animals different??? As far as smells go?? My cat died at about 9:30 P.M. and he sat wrapped in a blanket o my chair in the basement.....Several times throughout the day, I would go down to the chair and pet him and cry. He was cold. He was stiff....Yes, he peed, but he never let out any foul smell. Are humans just different....Or was I just immune??? I have smelled death before. Believe me... You will know it. I never got that from him and it was about 24 hours that he sat in that chair before we buried him. He was wrapped in his little blanket....I was just not willing to let him go.....I carried him to the burial site and never once caught that "smell" which I know. I won't get into details, but I do know what it is.
    To answer your question yes animals are very different. Humans have a plethora of toxins under and in their skin, they have fluids and internal juices that most animals dont have or have much less of. From what I know animal death is sweet while human death is strong and vial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RasGirl26 View Post
    So that would mean that Casey was already home when they got the car back? And if they had no intutition that Caylee was dead why would they have moved her playhouse???? And correct me if im wrong dont people that are close to someone generally have intuitions, I mean I knew my daughter was going to be a girl before I ever knew and I can sense certain things with my husband and children I cant explain. My high school sweetheart and fiancee (same person) passed away and I knew he was dead before anyone told me. You just get those feelings and they have to know, thats why they freaked out in the beginning and let their panic show. I feel now that they have shifted to defending the the little girl who is still alive because it is obvious Casey is still their "little" girl and they must coddle her. IMO
    I think it depends on the person but I do agree that people DO have intuition when it comes to death....Fot example....I was on my way to FL the end of July. I hate flying BUT I was doing ok....It was raining, so we had to circle for about a half an hour before we could land....As we circled the ocean, I was thinking of my grandfather and how I couldn't wait to call him and tell him that I had "made it" and I was just looking down at the ocean crying....I couldn't figure out why until I got the call about 3 hours after we landed that he has passed. I knew. I just knew. Same thing when my step father passed. I just knew.
    Death Leaves A Heartache No One Can Heal. Love Leaves A Memory No One Can Steal. Rest In Peace Caylee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RasGirl26 View Post
    To answer your question yes animals are very different. Humans have a plethora of toxins under and in their skin, they have fluids and internal juices that most animals dont have or have much less of. From what I know animal death is sweet while human death is strong and vial.
    Thank you. I did have to clean up a mouse once.....That was no fun! My grandpa was into the "humane" traps and I was a bit too late to let the poor guy go. By the time I got there, it was a melted mass of nothing.....No bones...Just goop. And ugh. That smell.
    Death Leaves A Heartache No One Can Heal. Love Leaves A Memory No One Can Steal. Rest In Peace Caylee.

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