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Thread: All About Chloroform#2

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    All About Chloroform#2

    The first thread has 42 pages to it. Can one of the mods please lock it?

    Thanks,

    Salem
    Last edited by JBean; 09-09-2008 at 08:28 PM.

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    Originally posted by JBean: Just to help in these situations, at the top of each thread is a functuion called search this thread. Often you can put in a key term and see what pops up within this thread only. Try doing a search on the word *level* and see if any results produce useful information to you.
    Just my helpful hint of the day

    JBean - thank you for this tip. I'm still learning my way around here

    OKAY - back to chloroform. I read in the other thread much discussion about whether or not the maggots and flys would survive under chloroform and it seems the general consenus it that they would not. BUT would they survive if they were in the plastic trash bag? It seems to me that the maggots were in the trash bag that was thrown away.

    I think this is a key issue as to when the chloroform was used.

    Salem

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    I'm pretty sure it was said there were flies in the trunk, that escaped when trunk was opened at the tow lot. I did a forum search and there are many references, but I don't have a link the original statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by treeseeker View Post
    I'm pretty sure it was said there were flies in the trunk, that escaped when trunk was opened at the tow lot. I did a forum search and there are many references, but I don't have a link the original statement.
    yes there was, including bug entemology and apparently the flies that came out at the lot when they opened the trunk and found the pizza box and the trash bag (was discared oiver the fence-later recovered by police) were sceond generation flies according to some bug research.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Friptzap View Post
    yes there was, including bug entemology and apparently the flies that came out at the lot when they opened the trunk and found the pizza box and the trash bag (was discared oiver the fence-later recovered by police) were sceond generation flies according to some bug research.
    didn't they also say there were maggots in the trunk?

    who gets maggots from old pizza? they don't like pizza.

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    Quote Originally Posted by future criminologist View Post
    didn't they also say there were maggots in the trunk?

    who gets maggots from old pizza? they don't like pizza.
    okay, i have to admit housecleaning is probably NOT my fortay! (lol) but i had 2 pieces of pizza that were in the bottom of a kitchen sized green plastic trashcan that I keep on my by patio. they were underneath the trash bag and must have been there for a month or more (fuzzy here as we order pizza out alot) anyways my point being i kept wondering why, why, why did we have all these flies. I thought i had cleaned everything well enough and finally checked in the bottom and found the pizza. Here is a description of it, it was TOTALLY black. But, there was no smell, just flies and maggots. I live in SW texas and this was recently and temps have been consistently upper 90's with very little rain. I immediately blew off CA comment about the pizza being the source of the smell since i was in the midst of this little amateur science project of my own. So, I guess they (flies) like old pizza (prolly cuz of the pepperoni?) BUT big deal here NOT SMELL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by future criminologist View Post
    didn't they also say there were maggots in the trunk?

    who gets maggots from old pizza? they don't like pizza.
    They don't. I have seen pizza tossed in an open dumpster for a week and it doesn't smell and there are no maggors on it. It turns into something resembling shoe leather.
    I have a constitutional right to my opinion and I am stating it!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by treeseeker View Post
    I'm pretty sure it was said there were flies in the trunk, that escaped when trunk was opened at the tow lot. I did a forum search and there are many references, but I don't have a link the original statement.
    I don't understand how someone could clean with chloroform and not knock themselves out though..

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    Quote Originally Posted by shannon718 View Post
    I don't understand how someone could clean with chloroform and not knock themselves out though..
    It probably would if you were in a poorly-ventilated room. I read an article about problems with chloroform in indoor-pool areas. Not enough to knock people out, but enough to detect in their systems after swimming.

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    Context of Chloroform Searches

    Probably not release by LE, however, I wonder what context CA's computer searches took.
    When conducting an online search, wouldn't most people try to limit the results by narrowing the search parameters? If so, her queries would indicate how she intended to use it, for instance, in some specific manner: sex, cleaning, incapacitating, etc.

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    So - if bugs would not have survived the chloroform, then the chloroform was put in the car after the tow yard, right? This would lead one to believe that there was chloroform at the Anthony home and that GA &/or CA used it to try to clean the trunk stain?

    Interesting and thank you both, Friptzap and treeseeker for responding.

    Salem

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    So - if bugs would not have survived the chloroform, then the chloroform was put in the car after the tow yard, right? This would lead one to believe that there was chloroform at the Anthony home and that GA &/or CA used it to try to clean the trunk stain?

    Interesting and thank you both, Friptzap and treeseeker for responding.

    Salem
    It was reported on another thread that Cindy asked LE if they wanted any evidence out of the car the day they reported Caylee missing. It looks as though the car was at the A's residence a couple of days before LE came out to search for evidence. It is possible they cleaned the car. My question would be, was there mention of the car odor on that first police report - the day they called to report Caylee missing. Decomp, or something similar to an over-bearing car air freshener? My understanding is that chloroform is sweet, pungent, and can be found in may air fresheners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by treeseeker View Post
    My understanding is that chloroform is sweet, pungent, and can be found in may air fresheners.
    Dear Lord, I hope that isnt true hubby is in love with spraying air fresheners. I will be reading every bottle now. I get 10 bottles and if I dont hide it he will use it all in one week... I will now put this idea in his head so he will stop with the air freshener, he kills us with it..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelray View Post
    Dear Lord, I hope that isnt true hubby is in love with spraying air fresheners. I will be reading every bottle now. I get 10 bottles and if I dont hide it he will use it all in one week... I will now put this idea in his head so he will stop with the air freshener, he kills us with it..
    Turns out chloroform is used in quite a few household items - that's why I wondered if the car smelled like one of those really strong car air fresheners. There are also claims that it forms in the shower as the chlorine in the water evaporates. Between the health scares and the uh, "off-label" uses, I'm surprised it's not more closely regulated.

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    If the flies and maggots were alive and Chloroform kills flies, maggots and bugs, then wouldn't that mean that the Chloroform was introduced to the trunk after it was picked up? Bug spray/insect repellent contains Chloroform, I think GA sprayed it in the trunk to kill the maggots, flies, etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by treeseeker View Post
    It was reported on another thread that Cindy asked LE if they wanted any evidence out of the car the day they reported Caylee missing. It looks as though the car was at the A's residence a couple of days before LE came out to search for evidence. It is possible they cleaned the car. My question would be, was there mention of the car odor on that first police report - the day they called to report Caylee missing. Decomp, or something similar to an over-bearing car air freshener? My understanding is that chloroform is sweet, pungent, and can be found in may air fresheners.
    If I'm remembering right, didn't CA make remarks about LE not looking into evidence in car until day before first bond hearing?

    Chloroform has been an "illegal" substance since 1978ish. Doesn't store well. So the chance of anyone having this 'sitting' around is slim to none.
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    I remember it being reported that Cindy asked LE if they wanted anything before she got in the car.

    I don't remember any reports about anything other than the decomp smell which was reported by Cindy, the Tow Guy and LE.

    But if maggots and flys could not live in chloroform, then when and how did it get in the car? AND who would try to clean the car with such chemicals knowing they have basically been outlawed to the general public. AND when did Casey do the searches on her computer. Really skews the timeline.....

    Salem

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    I remember it being reported that Cindy asked LE if they wanted anything before she got in the car.

    I don't remember any reports about anything other than the decomp smell which was reported by Cindy, the Tow Guy and LE.

    But if maggots and flys could not live in chloroform, then when and how did it get in the car? AND who would try to clean the car with such chemicals knowing they have basically been outlawed to the general public. AND when did Casey do the searches on her computer. Really skews the timeline.....

    Salem
    Well, the chloroform is colorless and odorless so maybe they didn't think the police would even find out? It is pretty obvious the car was clean and shiny. It would've never have been that shiny after sitting at a tow yard without being cleaned. The dead body smell was never mentioned in the LE interviews released in the 400 page documents. I wonder if they are keeping that underwraps for now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by monoxide View Post
    Well, the chloroform is colorless and odorless so maybe they didn't think the police would even find out? It is pretty obvious the car was clean and shiny. It would've never have been that shiny after sitting at a tow yard without being cleaned. The dead body smell was never mentioned in the LE interviews released in the 400 page documents. I wonder if they are keeping that underwraps for now?
    The dead body smell is mentioned several times in the 400 page report. In some of Yuri's statements and his testimony at the bail hearing.

    If I understand the timeline, CA called police late at night on July 15th. It was after hours and after the local police station was essentially closed for the night. Part of her call was asking for an alternate location to bring her daughter to. The car and everything was seized as evidence later in the day on July 16th (I think). I assume the earlier part of the day was when LE were driving KC around as she lied to them about Zanny and Universal, etc.

    Now there seems to be a bigger block of time between when George abd Cindy picked up the car, and the initial 911 calls. Somewhere in there they found Casey, She and Mom were online. George was out? Lee was called in. Just a bit confusing and muddled. Also somewhere in that block of time is when G and C supposedly moved and looked under the playhouse themselves. So who knows what they did to the car during that period?

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    Timeline

    Quote Originally Posted by faefrost View Post
    The dead body smell is mentioned several times in the 400 page report. In some of Yuri's statements and his testimony at the bail hearing.

    If I understand the timeline, CA called police late at night on July 15th. It was after hours and after the local police station was essentially closed for the night. Part of her call was asking for an alternate location to bring her daughter to. The car and everything was seized as evidence later in the day on July 16th (I think). I assume the earlier part of the day was when LE were driving KC around as she lied to them about Zanny and Universal, etc.

    Now there seems to be a bigger block of time between when George abd Cindy picked up the car, and the initial 911 calls. Somewhere in there they found Casey, She and Mom were online. George was out? Lee was called in. Just a bit confusing and muddled. Also somewhere in that block of time is when G and C supposedly moved and looked under the playhouse themselves. So who knows what they did to the car during that period?
    Can anyone say for certain the day that Caylee actually went missing? Why are we all assuming it had to be the sixteenth? We know it must have been before the 27th if the forensics are correct in the car trunk? or What if the little girl at the airport on 7/2 was Caylee? I just wish LE would investigate that more. FBI should have followed up and examined credibility of TTT.

    I think LE rushed to judgement in the JonBenet case and I think they are making too many assumptions on this one. Leave no stone unturned and keep an open mind. Caylee must be found----either dead or alive. We all need to know what happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by servingothers View Post
    Can anyone say for certain the day that Caylee actually went missing? Why are we all assuming it had to be the sixteenth? We know it must have been before the 27th if the forensics are correct in the car trunk? or What if the little girl at the airport on 7/2 was Caylee? I just wish LE would investigate that more. FBI should have followed up and examined credibility of TTT.

    I think LE rushed to judgement in the JonBenet case and I think they are making too many assumptions on this one. Leave no stone unturned and keep an open mind. Caylee must be found----either dead or alive. We all need to know what happened.
    This case has me second guessing everything every day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    I remember it being reported that Cindy asked LE if they wanted anything before she got in the car.

    I don't remember any reports about anything other than the decomp smell which was reported by Cindy, the Tow Guy and LE.

    But if maggots and flys could not live in chloroform, then when and how did it get in the car? AND who would try to clean the car with such chemicals knowing they have basically been outlawed to the general public. AND when did Casey do the searches on her computer. Really skews the timeline.....

    Salem
    I am jumping in here without reading all of the posts so forgive me if this has already been said.

    Chloroform fumes can be created by mixing bleach with an antibacterial soap/detergent. Back when this was first being discussed I did a search on harmful reactions of cleaning agents to see if it could possibly be an answer to the cholorform presense.

    To me, it is a strong possibility that CA could have been trying to clean the trunk to get rid of the smell/stain. It also would be the answer to why the maggots/flies were not affected since it happened afterwards. It may also be an answer to the search that was done on the computer. If the reaction was noticable to whoever tried to clean the trunk they may have looked up the reaction of mixing the cleaning agents and chloroform showed up in the ANSWER to this research.

    I once mixed bleach and ammonia together and it like to have knocked me out. I looked up what the reaction was and found out it was harmful and to never, ever do it again.

    Just throwing out a possibility.
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    Drugging of child

    If anyone has doubts that someone would actually drug a child, they should read the link in this article. The two women that were raising this child drugged this child while the were looking at a time share property in Kissimmee, near Orlando. Thank goodness the child awoke and went and found help or he could have ended up like Caylee.

    http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-onlin...39181169.shtml

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbw View Post
    If anyone has doubts that someone would actually drug a child, they should read the link in this article. The two women that were raising this child drugged this child while the were looking at a time share property in Kissimmee, near Orlando. Thank goodness the child awoke and went and found help or he could have ended up like Caylee.

    http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-onlin...39181169.shtml
    OMG.. that story just made me cry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthSeeker View Post
    I am jumping in here without reading all of the posts so forgive me if this has already been said.

    Chloroform fumes can be created by mixing bleach with an antibacterial soap/detergent. Back when this was first being discussed I did a search on harmful reactions of cleaning agents to see if it could possibly be an answer to the cholorform presense.

    To me, it is a strong possibility that CA could have been trying to clean the trunk to get rid of the smell/stain. It also would be the answer to why the maggots/flies were not affected since it happened afterwards. It may also be an answer to the search that was done on the computer. If the reaction was noticable to whoever tried to clean the trunk they may have looked up the reaction of mixing the cleaning agents and chloroform showed up in the ANSWER to this research.

    I once mixed bleach and ammonia together and it like to have knocked me out. I looked up what the reaction was and found out it was harmful and to never, ever do it again.

    Just throwing out a possibility.

    I can relate!! I moved into a house years ago that had terrible stains in the bathtub and toilet. I mixed bleach and several other cleaners together, and nearly passed out from it. Never did get all those stains out... but never did try that again, either.

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