We need an Arped-and-the-Oak-Ridge-Boys appreciation thread (no offense to the Oak Ridge girls). These are the peeps on which the case will hinge IMHO. Some props for these heros seems in order, eh?
Thank you so much BJB for putting the scientific stuff into terms that I can actually relate to because one of my favorite chores is baking. Not saying I still completely understand all you tried very hard to explain but at least I am understanding it a little bit more. TY!
I am interested in your comment regarding Casey's initiative, or lack of, either going to the trouble of actually making or obtaining the chloroform. I don't know what to make of the computer searches on the subject but when I allow myself to entertain it having value in some form, I have wondered if KC became aware of it either by watching some tv program or seeing RM's "joke" about "woo her with chloroform" on his computer. But the theory that I seem to prefer is that during one of the hang out/party times, sitting around listening to the military guys talk about their experiences in Iraq, chloroform was part of the conversation. This seems to be a touchy subject as in at least one LE interview, one of these guys was asked what they know about chloroform and they reply they only have knowledge of it from their time in Iraq. What I found strange was that this was not expanded on by LE. That subject seemed to be immediately dropped. I was left wondering if the rest was not released to the public or if there were orders from "above" to "leave that alone". Do you KWIM? I am wondering if KC overheard things she then went on to use. To apply to her plan. Whether the original plan was to do away with the A's or Caylee IDK. I'm wondering if she heard ways to easily produce it but she didn't overhear or all she needed to know wasn't fully discussed. So she botched the storage of it and it ends up spilling in her trunk. I thought I read somewhere that chloroform is heavier than air so it would have descended and attached to any/all material in the bottom of the trunk, right? Carpet, any clothes she had back there, anything. Anyway, I am really stuck on this military connection. Has anyone else had these thoughts? And I had no idea about the half life info. That would make getting rid of the chloroform next to impossible wouldn't it?
Please be kind all in your replies---I believe I am a right brain thinker--more emotional, artistic etc, less intellectual.
Rest in Peace Sweet Caylee
Iassen talked a bit about use of chloroform in combat to subdue unruly POW's, and there was some rumbling 'bout this being sideways w/ the Geneva convention, hence, not being SOP, etc, etc. Amen.
If you waste enough time readin' this stuff you'll also find buried in there somewhere that chloroform can be used to extract THC (the go juice in pot, mary jane, weed, etc. etc.) and perhaps Casey sourced this from Tony's do-it-yourself Sutton Place Apt. Lab which we have no evidence to support ever existed.
All that bein' said (or typed rather) it is certainly possible (not probable IMHO) that Casey dipped into someone elses get-ur-chloroform-here tap as you described. Wait a sec...I think I just saw a monkey flyin' out of my...oh...nevermind.
You're one-up on me...I'm a seatathapants thinker - absolutely devoid of emotion AND intellect In general I think much better when unencumbered by the facts.Please be kind all in your replies---I believe I am a right brain thinker--more emotional, artistic etc, less intellectual.
Oh well, you know what will probably end up happening? That those computer searches had nothing to do with what happened to Caylee. It probably got typed into google for one of those reasons that none of us could have ever imagined! It's probably the name of a danged band for all we know! We've all caused our brains to hurt for no reason for months! Now wouldn't that take the cake? moo
Rest in Peace Sweet Caylee
Not to break up the lovefest or anything...but I personally think it might be significant that any of the names KC came up with in her interviews with LE...she came up with on her own. ie...wasn't fed them by some fictious nanny and her equally fictious sister or other SODDI types. That is all I meant by posting what I did.
I do find it somewhat interesting that her bull.... boss happened to be named Tom Manley (her words not mine...) a name that just happens to be linked to the discovery of chloroform. Oh well.
Hope KC enjoys her pop tarts. It is quite apparent from all I have seen of her recent appearances that she has.
Sorry to be so obstinate, but I'm holdin' out on the chloroform. The search warrant narrative 12/11 mentioned the chloroform finding, both the FBIs and Dr. Vass'. This was after the body was found, with the duct tape, so the chloroform wasn't really necessary as a means at that point. See pg 6 of 18 here:
If this finding was some sort of misunderstanding/misinterpretation, I don't see the purpose of bringing it along as late as 12/11, unless it was really there and unaccounted for re decomp. I don't think the SA/LE would allow such an "oops" to carry on that long.
While I don't really see KC making chloroform, one does have to consider the number of people who mix cold pills and paint thinner in their bathtubs, then stick it in their ovens to make meth. People do weird things.
IMHO, what shows up in the 12/11 warrant is a natural extension of Arped's emails that we read recently. Just being thorough And that's a good thing.
I've always thought the Heloise Hints type "subdue and exterminate" searches in March were more about brainstorming for GA or CA than a premeditated attempt to kill a toddler. She could have done that with her bare hands without using duct tape even. Especially since she mentioned to her brother that CA tried to "choke her" the night of the fight.
Since SP had already mentioned to CA that she did not want KC there to visit and to not pay her back because the bank already had - it had always made me think the fight was more about something CA found out from Caylee when they drove to Mt. Dora rather than old news like the birthday check. CA may have been very surprised to find out that Caylee had slept in the same room as KC and RM the preceding week, or something of that ilk since she may have been pumping her for info on where the two of them had been staying.
Even if COD was choking - which, like smothering, would be unlikely to prove unless there is proof the duct tape was applied antemortem - (and if choking was the case it could have been either the origin of KC's story or simply an ironic twist in KC's mind if CA had actually done it) - she could have still covered Caylee's mouth and nose with an unnecessary amount of duct tape, sealing her "silence" with that heart sticker. I know that struck many of us as an act of anger or spite.
Last edited by cecybeans; 09-02-2009 at 10:01 AM. Reason: add phrase
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" - Voltaire
Oh I may say I am giving up on the chloroform----but I think I am lying to myself. It's just that every time I come up with a theory, there will be some reason I think of later that makes it not work. Or when I read another poster's theory that sounds plausible---it will have holes poked in it. It just seems like no one can come up with what we need. I am hoping LE knows and we will find out at trial or afterwards, trust me. MOO
Rest in Peace Sweet Caylee
In part 1 of the interview with Tracy she says she is talking to Casey about the "date rape drug" and that she, Tracy brought the whole subject up, and that she told Casey it was in a liquid form and if you took just a little too much you were out, and then they talked about other things that would put you out like that and Casey listed "and chloroform" as one of THOSE things and this was before chloroform had come UP in the case at all...so I think that is significant.
about 23 minutes in.
ABC provided $200,000.00 toCasey Anthonys defense!The MURDERED should not be USED to pay for the MURDERERS DEFENSE!
American Tragedy: The defense of Casey Anthony.
Juror No. 11 somehow made the journey from Casey is the one on trial to George may be a murderer, based on how George acted on the stand? 3 years of evidence against Casey and he throws George under the bus. Makes sense?What evidence indicated that George might be a murderer? Anyone?Weren't they to ONLY consider EVIDENCE?This NOT GUILTY verdict throws Caylee right back into the swamp she decomposed in. Thanks to this "impartial" jury.
Casey either cooked up a batch on her own, after all, she did have lots of free time on her hands, or she stole some from somewhere. I don't know why, maybe she had some scheme to off Cindy and/or George, and it was foiled somehow. IMO, it's possible she administered it to Caylee orally. Caylee could have started choking on it and spitting it up, so Casey could have then even forced some more down her and then duct taped her mouth and nose shut to keep it down. JMOO.
Not to single you out JWG, ( luv ya madly!) but I'm using two of your posts from pg 40 of this thread to help illustrate my point.
I keep seeing a lot of references in various threads about the chlorine component of the Anthony's backyard pool, and it's been kinda working my nerves...
Since LE reports (from the 12/11/08 search warrant) taking bottles of Baquacil from the shed, I think that it's reasonable to assume that this is the line of chemicals that the Anthony's were dedicated to using in their pool. Baquacil is a line that is chlorine-free. Apparently it utilizes hydrogen peroxide instead.
...my 2 cents worth. your mileage may vary.
What degree is TL working toward? (The question is actually not OT.)
This woman is a manipulator of the first degree. I'm still convinced she planned to OFF GA, CA, and CMA by way of staged accident. Stevie Wonder could see that a screw is loose in any of the Ants you can name.
bumpity bump for information