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  1. #1
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    DOI-Straight from the horse's mouth

    A Thread Devoted To their book Death of Innocence-
    From their own words: Why would they say or do....(whatever)


    My first large red flag is:
    JR- Said he thought of the walk-in fridge and rushed to look to see if JBR had been placed into it but found she wasn't there.

    If this is true and he is innocent, why would the wine cellar not be the next excellent hiding place to come to mind to look if JR is trying to think as kidnappers would if they 'put her' some place within the home???

    Why did he not exhaust all other possible 'hiding places' then and there when he found she was not in the fridge???

    Why didn't LE ASK him this question???
    "Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance."~ Plato
    ~The above reflects only my opinion...

  2. #2
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    good question,and I've always thought he was trying to account for his fresh fingerprints being on it;I have a feeling there was a temp. thought of putting her body in there till they could figure out a plan.
    JR also does this with other comments in DOI,like the broken window,and esp. telling is he tries to account for his underwear fibers near JB's bed.read to the part where he says he suddenly realized he was in his underwear,(after the 911 call),and he ran up to get dressed,stopping by JB's room and looking under her bed.(you think he would have done that earlier).

    LE missed a lot of opportunities for such q's,IMO.I do think Thomas did a good job though,as much as he was allowed to with TR being present and babysitting them the whole time.

  3. #3
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    But John did think of the wine cellar. As soon as he was told to search for anything out of place he, with Fleet following, headed straight for the basement and that little hidden room. He did this because he was tired of LE not finding her.
    As for not suggesting the wine celler earlier to LE - maybe JonBenet wasn't in that space when officials first arrived. Didn't Fleet check there and found nothing cause he couldn't find the light switch?
    As for DOI, I find the chapter where the Ramseys discuss how to keep your child safe very chilling.
    jmo
    The Hokey Pokey Clinic - A good place to turn yourself around:

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778 View Post
    good question,and I've always thought he was trying to account for his fresh fingerprints being on it;I have a feeling there was a temp. thought of putting her body in there till they could figure out a plan.
    JR also does this with other comments in DOI,like the broken window,and esp. telling is he tries to account for his underwear fibers near JB's bed.read to the part where he says he suddenly realized he was in his underwear,(after the 911 call),and he ran up to get dressed,stopping by JB's room and looking under her bed.(you think he would have done that earlier).

    LE missed a lot of opportunities for such q's,IMO.I do think Thomas did a good job though,as much as he was allowed to with TR being present and babysitting them the whole time.
    Exactly.

    Pointing out the broken glass window had to have been an oddity to FW, one of his first red flags causing him to question the R's. An then JR going straight to the wine cellar...

    Yep, JR realized his underware when the police arrive and he runs upstairs to put on pants. That was said because he was in his underware in her room prior to that time.

    Also, he says that he brought JBR and put her under the Christmas tree. He did not. It makes me think that PR actually wrote JR's recounts as well as her own in the book rather than JR writing his own memories himself. Additionally, there are just too many romanticized recounted memories attributed to JR for his part to have been recorded for the book by a male. The part about PR's sister, for some odd reason unknown to even her and unasked to do so, bringing back the one item that JR wished he had asked her to bring to him, the last talent medallion, JBR won... Yet, this is the man who tucked a newly bought scarf around his daughter as the item he would add to her casket at burial...???...??? Please........how impersonal, with NO feeling or forethought. PR orchestrated it all and had nothing for JR to add to her casket so grabbed whatever was handy.

    DOI does way more to point the guilty arrow toward the R's than the other way around, IMO.
    "Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance."~ Plato
    ~The above reflects only my opinion...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by azwriter View Post
    But John did think of the wine cellar. As soon as he was told to search for anything out of place he, with Fleet following, headed straight for the basement and that little hidden room. He did this because he was tired of LE not finding her.
    As for not suggesting the wine celler earlier to LE - maybe JonBenet wasn't in that space when officials first arrived. Didn't Fleet check there and found nothing cause he couldn't find the light switch?
    As for DOI, I find the chapter where the Ramseys discuss how to keep your child safe very chilling.
    jmo
    I totally agree, but why not look there immediately after not finding her when he looked in the fridge? The answer is so obvious...The R's planned for LE to find her and when it took LE far too long the plan had to change. (IMO)
    "Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance."~ Plato
    ~The above reflects only my opinion...

  6. #6
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    The Rs fingerprints(fresh or not) on their own fridge would not be unusual. But what IS unusual is for parents who have a missing child and a ransom note to assume she was still in the house. When a child is kidnapped (for real) they are removed from the home (or school, or whatever their customary location is). They are NOT hidden in the home.
    Of course, kidnapped children are unfortunately often killed by their kidnappers (Polly Klaas, Samantha Runion) but they were NOT killed and then hidden in their own homes. They were removed from the home, killed and their bodies left behind, either to be intentionally found or to be found by LE during the search. Some are never found (Etan Patz). But for a parent in possession of a ransom note and discovering the child is missing to ASSUME that the child is still in the home is illogical.
    The fact that JR ADMITS he looked for her in the walk-in fridge is very suspicious; it means he knew she was dead (kids don't survive long locked in a refrigerator). Kids play in fridges, often with deadly result, but playing kids don't leave ransom notes, and the only kids in the home that night were BR and JBR. BR was excluded as the author or the note, and I don't think anyone suspects JBR of writing her own ransom note.
    I do think it possible that the fridge was considered as a place to put the body while they planned what to do, but was reconsidered when the liklihood of someone opening that fridge and discovering her was considered. I also think there is a possibility that the body was NOT in the wineceller when FW looked that morning. I think the body could have been placed in the basement freezer (which I believe was not turned on) and later moved by JR during his marathon "getting the mail" missing 2 hours.
    There were experiments on the ambient light coming into the darkened wineceller from the basement hallway and room just outside the wineceller. FW admits to not being able to find the light switch for the actual wineceller, but he and JR were not searching a dark basement; they had turned on the basement lights in other areas. I believe the experiment showed that there was sufficient light coming in from the doorway to be able to see a white blanket on the dark floor when looking into the room.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by azwriter View Post
    But John did think of the wine cellar. As soon as he was told to search for anything out of place he, with Fleet following, headed straight for the basement and that little hidden room. He did this because he was tired of LE not finding her.
    As for not suggesting the wine celler earlier to LE - maybe JonBenet wasn't in that space when officials first arrived. Didn't Fleet check there and found nothing cause he couldn't find the light switch?
    As for DOI, I find the chapter where the Ramseys discuss how to keep your child safe very chilling.
    jmo
    What gets me, is why didn't he start the search in her bedroom?...Remember, he was looking for things "OUT OF PLACE" as Ardnt asked him to, NOT a dead body. She didn't say..."Okay, John...go and see if you can find JB, because the kidnapper may have left her here somewhere, even though they left a ransom note". Maybe THEN he would have had a reason to check the basement first. This is a supposed kidnapping, he was looking for things "out of place". The last place that she was supposedly seen by them, was her bed...so, if he is looking for things that are "out of place", it stands to reason that he would search her bedroom first. He did say that he looked under her bed...but, what about things out of place in the closet, on the window sill, the spare bedroom, under Burke's bed, oh wait...that's right, he was afraid to wake Burke up, the garage? Places like that. AND, according to his OWN admission, he spent 30 SECONDS (NOT minutes) outside looking around. WOW!

  8. #8
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    Isn't it ironic that in DOI the subject of forgiving the killer is discussed and an analogy of a drunk hitting a school bus is used, with a driver caught up in the wreck saying they forgive the drunk driver for making them late for work etc. and that this analogy caused them to realize that they were not the "Victims" in the death of JonBenet any more than the driver stuck in traffic due to the bus wreck. They believed that JonBenet was the victim who must forgive the killer not them. They distance themselves from the killer and detach from the sin of unforgiveness. How totally twisted in order to meet their own needs at the time...

    Yet, the Governor of Colorado said, 'Treat the Ramseys as victims."
    Last edited by angelwngs; 09-12-2008 at 11:29 PM. Reason: typo
    "Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance."~ Plato
    ~The above reflects only my opinion...

  9. #9
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    yes indeed,that's an off-the-wall comment no parent of a murdered child would ever make...of COURSE they would feel like victims themselves,it's their precious child that was killed!

  10. #10
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    It absolutely infuriates me when humans use God to make excuses for their own insane behavior!

    On another subject, a question, please.

    Why did the R's move from 'friend' to 'friend' living with them in Boulder rather than just moving into the apartment that they had there for Papa P??? Did they need day in, day out witnesses to their 'grief'?
    "Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance."~ Plato
    ~The above reflects only my opinion...


  11. #11
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    that,and I think it was just like the morning of the 911 call...they needed ppl to hide behind,friends to help buffer them from police.

  12. #12
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    The red fibers on the inside of the tape have been bothering me.

    In DOI, the R's use the defense that if they had been PR's they would have had black and red fibers as her jacket had black and red. BUT under her jacket she wore a red sweater. If she were running around inside her own heated home in the outfit she had worn to the White's dinner party, would she have kept on the jacket? Would any of you ladies here have kept on your jacket to run around and ready your family for bed and for an early trip the next morning?

    Taking off that jacket/blazer would have been the 1st thing I did upon entering my home, prior to starting my running around getting things ready.

    This is a totally lame excuse made up by the R's to suggest that the red fibers on the tape could not have come from Patsy.

    Was JB's red turtleneck also tested to see if those red fibers matched???
    I sure wish we had more absolute answers.
    "Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance."~ Plato
    ~The above reflects only my opinion...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelwngs View Post
    The red fibers on the inside of the tape have been bothering me.

    In DOI, the R's use the defense that if they had been PR's they would have had black and red fibers as her jacket had black and red. BUT under her jacket she wore a red sweater. If she were running around inside her own heated home in the outfit she had worn to the White's dinner party, would she have kept on the jacket? Would any of you ladies here have kept on your jacket to run around and ready your family for bed and for an early trip the next morning?

    Taking off that jacket/blazer would have been the 1st thing I did upon entering my home, prior to starting my running around getting things ready.

    This is a totally lame excuse made up by the R's to suggest that the red fibers on the tape could not have come from Patsy.

    Was JB's red turtleneck also tested to see if those red fibers matched???
    I sure wish we had more absolute answers.
    I think it's actually the sweater fibers they meant.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelwngs View Post
    It absolutely infuriates me when humans use God to make excuses for their own insane behavior!

    On another subject, a question, please.

    Why did the R's move from 'friend' to 'friend' living with them in Boulder rather than just moving into the apartment that they had there for Papa P??? Did they need day in, day out witnesses to their 'grief'?
    less likely LE could get warrants to tap that many different moving locals?



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