09-09-2008, 04:34 PM #1
What sent Casey over the edge
After reading a very interesting resource posted yesterday by another WS'er regarding statement analysis I took another (completely hack/amateur) look @ Casey's statement to LE about the phone call she received from Caylee on 7/15 ~NOON. My apolgies for the length, but, I put it all here for convenience.
DISCLAIMER: I edited this portion of the transcript down for brevity. I did not intentionally change the content. I omitted some exchanges where the detectives & Casey interrupt each other for clarity.
Here's my SPECULATION:
6/15 Cindy threatens Casey with filing for custody of Caylee. The intense argument ensues. In the midst of the shouting match w/ Cindy, Casey puts the ultimatum to Caylee, "Caylee! Do you want to stay with me (Casey) or grandma (Cindy)?!?! What's it going to be?!?" Caylee is frightened and she does what any child in that situation would do, she goes in fear to her primary caregiver - Cindy. This sends Casey over the edge feeling Caylee has betrayed her and justified Cindy in the process. Casey thens sets out for revenge on defenseless Caylee at the next opportunity - exactly where/how TBD.
Q: What’d your daughter say to you?
A: She said, hi mommy. And she started to tell me a story talking to me about her shoes and books and…I tried to ask her where she was…and she just kept talking about the book that she’s…reading. We have videos of her reading the story and she’s telling me the story (inaudible)…a thousand times. She’s… [Casey conveniently uses the last video she saw of Casey reading the book as the basis for this lie-on-the-fly]
Q: …she seem happy and…
A: …fine. She seemed perfectly fine. There was nothing in the background.. [Casey, unprovoked, pre-empts the 'background' question indicating she's thinking in parallel about the plausiblity of her story]
Q: …no sign of any type of stress at all?
A: Not at all.
Q: Great that’s wonderful. Let me ask you a question. Your daughter hasn’t seen you in over a month and she’s not, she
A: She was excited, she was excited, sorry, to talk to me. But at the same time it’s crazy that she didn’t get upset when she talked to me. Which…had it been my mom…I know it would have been…totally different. [Casey didn't realize she completely left emotion out of her story until LE prompted her and struggled to recover. When she does recover she fantasizes about Caylee being excited (i.e. happy) with her and upset with Cindy - the reverse of the reality of 6/15 fight. She also reveals that the Caylee=Cindy relationship is "totally different" than Casey=Caylee.]
Q: …that makes sense to you?
A: She never gets upset when she talks to me. Whether I haven’t seen her for an entire day or if I had to work late at night I didn’t see her almost an entire day until the next one. [...more supplanting of Casey's reversal of reality. "Upset" may also be jealously saying that Caylee didn't seem to care if Casey came or went as long as Cindy was there.]
Q: The last time, the last time somebody took her and you didn’t see her for five weeks was when?
Q: Okay. Now you haven’t seen her in five weeks. Hasn’t been in her own home, hasn’t seen her mother in five weeks. That didn’t upset her.
A: She was fine.
Q: She was fine she talked about the, y’all talked about the book. I mean is all that stuff you’re saying true, right?
A: She’s always been like that though.I don’t understand…how, but she’s always been like that.
Q: Okay but I’m getting that, but let’s get back to you say this had never happened before.
Q: She’s never not seen you for five weeks.
Q: Not talking to her mother okay. She finally talks to her mother after five weeks.
You’re…you ask her where she is. You begin asking her these questions and she just wants to talk about the book, she’s happy, she’s not worried, doesn’t seem upset.
A: She’s always like that. You can even ask my mom, she’s the same way. [Casey slips big time here and reveals that Caylee doesn't react to her, as in, she doesn't run to hug Casey when she's been gone...and Cindy's "the same way". In Casey's mind, neither Caylee or Cindy care for Casey...they have each other now.]
Q: Okay, let me go back to the, when was the last time you didn’t see her for five weeks? When was the last time something like this happened where she was gone and you didn’t see her for five weeks? The last time this happened when?
Q: Okay so this is the first time okay.
A: This is the first time I’ve been away from her for more than a day.
Q: Okay. The first time you ever been away from her for more than a day and she wasn’t the least bit upset?
Q: When you talked to her on the phone that day?
A: She wasn’t the least bit upset when I talked to her.
Q: She went on about, you know I miss you mommy none of that I just…she talked like you said she talked about that book and all that stuff right that’s it?
A: And when I asked her to give the phone to another adult to somebody else she was fine, she was willing to do it, but the phone hung up. She doesn’t hang up phones. [The giving of the phone is a metaphor for what happened 6/15. Caylee was "willing to do it" (i.e. go to Cindy), but, "the phone hung up"...(i.e. I put a stop to that)
Sorry for the length. I just had to get it down in one spot.
09-09-2008, 04:42 PM #2Former Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2005
- Tampa, FL
What sends a sociopath over the edge?
Abandonment/Rejection/Loss of Control
*You have to leave the house with Caylee & start your own life
* We are not going to help you...Emotionally or financially
* Casey cannot get in touch with friends, boyfriend, family (Mon.)
(She has loss control also of the means she gets money)
*Caylee is in the way of her new lifestyle
* "I'll show you" and take Caylee from you........
* Financially she is "shot"
* Personally, some of her sctets have come out..
she needs to create a bigger diversion from her "criminal doings"
09-09-2008, 04:43 PM #3
Very interesting post, thanks... KC is definitely a piece of work... she definitely does not act like any mothers I have known.
09-09-2008, 04:47 PM #4Truth is not only violated by falsehood; it may be equally outraged by silence.
-- Henri Frederic Amiel
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
-- Aldous Huxley
All opinions expressed are that... merely my opinions, thoughts, musings as it were.
09-09-2008, 04:48 PM #5
Nice work, BJB!! One martini for you! (shaken, not stirred)
09-09-2008, 05:02 PM #6
Very interesting...I read the same resource as you and I agree with your assessment of her statements.
I noticed how she repeated a few times about how Caylee never got upset when she spoke to her. I think she is actually telling us here that Caylee was upset about something, possibly not being home with Grandma.
09-09-2008, 05:13 PM #7
I think it is Casey justifying in her own mind that Casey is "ok". Calm, serene, not wanting her mom or grandma. It's how she sleeps at night.
09-09-2008, 05:14 PM #8Registered User
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
perhaps she was just reciting her recollection of a truth, that being the short video of caylee from fathers day.
09-09-2008, 06:24 PM #9
I've never seen or heard of any kid who wouldn't be asking "when are you coming to get me" or " I want to go home" after being gone for 5 weeks straight. She should have at least asked where's Grandma or something.
09-09-2008, 06:39 PM #10
I take this part maybe a little differently (or maybe I didn't understanding what you were trying to convey).
A: She was excited, she was excited, sorry, to talk to me. But at the same time it’s crazy that she didn’t get upset when she talked to me. Which…had it been my mom…I know it would have been…totally different.
been talking to Cindy, because Cindy was really primary caregiver and more bonded with Caylee. I think Casey is classic bpd (doncha love how I can diagnose that from a distance!) and isn't bonded with anyone. I think the real struggle with Casey is wanting her mother's approval, but she absolutely cannot face that need.
09-09-2008, 06:46 PM #11
Weird, I know, but because I've lived through it, I know it's true. At age 2 or 3, all they connected to were their primary caregivers - hubby and I.
Right now, as teens, is when they're longing for their "mom," more in a way of trying to resolve why she didn't raise them. Lots of behaviors are now surfacing that are explained by feelings of abandonment at young age, even tho we loved them, took care of them as if they were our own children, and were in the role of parents their whole lives.
09-09-2008, 06:51 PM #12
IF Casey went over the edge I'd think it would be due to the very things that are being publicly reported in the documents and elsewhere.
According to RP, three weeks before the disappearance he and Cindy put together stories and discovered that the last 10 years had been a big lie.
The reported theft from the grandparents
Thefts from Cindy
Finding out that the supposed daddy of the baby wasn't really the daddy
Break ups with recent boyfriends
Reported trouble with the new boyfriend
Wanting to move and be on her own, but no real job or finances
Being a single mom with no husband or daddy for the child to help out or turn to
Family arguments and possbibly finding out the counselor's advice to kick her out and take custody
Possible drug use and alcohol reacting with whatever emotional problems are present (reports of getting meaner when drinking)
Also, whatever mental instability or problem that is causing the lies and made up stories could help send someone over the edge IMO
09-09-2008, 06:55 PM #13
I don't think she went over the edge.
I think the baby died because of negligence, Casey freaked out, and went into survival mode.
Sociopaths are very good at avoiding responsibility, and blaming others for their shortcomings and crimes. I think she manipulated the family into assuming part of the guilt, and perhaps threatened them with the disgrace (which they already face) and possibly with incareration.
I do NOT feel sorry for Cindy, or any other family member, They DID know that Cindy is too immature and irresponsible to take care of a toddler. I think they should have moved for custody shortly after Caylee was born.
Sociopaths do not really bond (despite Casey's protestations of love for this guy or that one) , so she is not able to grieve normally.
BTW-- Casey's call from prison, where she kept mewling for Tony's phone number, reminds me of a call to Susan Smith from the guy who dumped her. The ex-boyfriend called to give his respects and sympathy for the loss of the children. All Susan wanted to talk about was "their relationship."
09-09-2008, 06:56 PM #14
Oops, with your excellent analysis, I forgot to ask: How do we know Casey went over the edge?
09-09-2008, 07:09 PM #15Registered User
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
kudos! you guys are pretty good at this! - I'm pitiful - initially all I'd got from reading that part of the transcript wuz that KC was gonna try & use that to elaborate later on it like how it must have been / was a 'recording' of Caylee played over the phone to her [ie: nothing in background, etc].... like that she was laying the groundwork for something like "omg! I now realize the kidnappers played a recording of Caylee to me over the phone!" [being that her talking about the *book* was what she was doing on the *VIDEO*].....
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