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Thread: Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #2

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by shannon718 View Post
    I somehow don't believe that she was still there.....why would she hang out after her mother tried to choke her. Thats no normal fight. Thats a HUGE fight.
    I agree that she probably left.

  2. #52
    Possible, Jane. Then again...not everyday your mom wraps her hands around your neck in an attempt to choke you either. Casey did say she was "petrified" (twice) of her mother. While we can take that both ways...a physical altercation such as this has to bring some weight to that statement. Was this the first time it went that far? What did Casey do in response?
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by shannon718 View Post
    I believe that the neighbors said that hey heard Casey screaming and swearing at her mother. Youre right. She's no timid wallflower. She would have fought back.
    I agree she is not timid, but she probably knew exactly how far she could push her mother with screaming and words. This went far beyond that, imo.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  4. #54
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    Woohoo! I just read that another 600 pages of discovery documents will be released shortly! Any one else heard about this???

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by What'sThatClue View Post
    If there was a violent fight with CA choking KC, perhaps the child got in the way somehow. Maybe got shoved accidentally and hit her head, dying either then or later. CA accuses KC of killing her, KC flips and runs to Tony's. Her mind can't wrap around the fact that she killed her child so she blocks it all and, since she's told stories about the babysitter before, her mind invents the 'babysitter stole her' scenario. She's been telling lies about her employment and babysitter for so long that her mind automatically invents it.

    Not sure about the child's body, what was done with it. Or the further involvement of the A's, esp CA.
    The problem I see with this scenario is that I believe Cindy was truly "out of the loop" during the 911 call where she said the part about the dead body. I tend to believe they would have made up a story about the baby falling or something and called 911.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by What'sThatClue View Post
    If there was a violent fight with CA choking KC, perhaps the child got in the way somehow. Maybe got shoved accidentally and hit her head, dying either then or later. CA accuses KC of killing her, KC flips and runs to Tony's. Her mind can't wrap around the fact that she killed her child so she blocks it all and, since she's told stories about the babysitter before, her mind invents the 'babysitter stole her' scenario. She's been telling lies about her employment and babysitter for so long that her mind automatically invents it.

    Not sure about the child's body, what was done with it. Or the further involvement of the A's, esp CA.
    KC said something about this being "pinned on me," and the phone conversation in the jail when KC questioned her Mom about not knowing what happened to Caylee.

    Not exact quotes, but both of those statements have continually made me question CA's involvement too.
    Every man...should periodically be compelled to listen to opinions which are infuriating to him. To hear nothing but what is pleasing to one is to make a pillow of the mind.
    - St. John Ervine

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustanotherJane View Post
    The problem I see with this scenario is that I believe Cindy was truly "out of the loop" during the 911 call where she said the part about the dead body. I tend to believe they would have made up a story about the baby falling or something and called 911.

    True, you have a point. Guess I'm grasping at straws; the whole thing is just so bizarre.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    Possible, Jane. Then again...not everyday your mom wraps her hands around your neck in an attempt to choke you either. Casey did say she was "petrified" (twice) of her mother. While we can take that both ways...a physical altercation such as this has to bring some weight to that statement. Was this the first time it went that far? What did Casey do in response?
    I doubt it was the first time, but maybe it was the worst. I believe Cindy has her own "issues" mentally and it would be interesting to note the way she was raised and her own relationship with her parents, especially her mother. I think Cindy is all about "appearances" and when her mother was angry that Casey stole from her, Cindy was very embarrassed. Her embarrassment turned to anger, and then to rage, IMO. Maybe her mother was/is very critical of her?

    In my experience, parents who resort to physical "altercations" with their children have often been on the receiving end of either severe verbal abuse or physical abuse themselves. I am not accusing Cindy's parents of anything, but I think it's important to look at the extended family dynamics. In some families, screaming and yelling is an everyday occurrence. If a child is raised in that environment they are immune to what outsiders may think. (ie...the neighbors)

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Panther View Post
    Woohoo! I just read that another 600 pages of discovery documents will be released shortly! Any one else heard about this???

    I haven't heard it, but if it is true.......there goes the housework, laundry, grocery shopping____________(fill in the blank) again.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    I agree, Jane. She would have been blazing up her phone on that long ride home. So Casey would have known what was coming...yes? Or was she going to ambush her when she got home with it? Sounds more like the scenario because Casey would have left before she arrived knowing she was going to "face the music". I bet she did call GA tho and possibly LA, too.

    The jail phone call between Casey and CA leads me to believe CA handled Casey with kid gloves. Remember... "Mom, I saw your little cameo on the news.... "

    "sweetheart, you're not telling them the truth. Don't waste your phone call to yell at me."

    "I don't f***ing know where she is, are you KIDDING ME??"

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    Exactly why I think it was actually lunch instead.
    Also in the picture / video at the nursing home. You can see in the background that it is some sort of feeding time when they are visiting. There are food trays and a cafeteria setting in the background. I would assume lunch time at the nursing home for the patients; it was either that or breakfast. So either they had lunch when they left or a very early dinner. I say lunch.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustanotherJane View Post
    The problem I see with this scenario is that I believe Cindy was truly "out of the loop" during the 911 call where she said the part about the dead body. I tend to believe they would have made up a story about the baby falling or something and called 911.

    Agree, I really don't believe that CA or GA had anything to do with Caylee's death or have any idea where she is. They are on protective mode of Casey right know, they know she killed Caylee, but right now they are just trying to keep Casey out of jail. Even though they had nothing to do with it they may be feeling guilt that had they done things differently maybe Casey would not have done it.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Panther View Post
    Woohoo! I just read that another 600 pages of discovery documents will be released shortly! Any one else heard about this???
    Really??????????????????????????????

    Is there a link?

  14. #64
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    ugh!

    I canít get past the 31 days vs. the June 9th day. On July 15th( date of 911 calls), by my count, the 31 days is June 16th. Cindy is adamant/unmoving on that date (june 9th); until LE tells her the date is Fatherís Day, NOT the Sunday before.

    Cindy and Casey were together during all the 911 calls, but yet they come up with 2 different dates in the beginning, then in the tapes is when Casey says June 9th.


    What parent or grandparent can not tell you down to the minute the last time that they physically saw their daughter/granddaughter. You count the days, hours and minutes that you have gone without your baby.


    These dates speak volumes to me, yet can't quite put it into words why. Ugh!

  15. #65
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    I understand the neighbor heard the fight, I'm wondering for LP to know about the physical altercation, did the neighbor see this happening through the window. The one thing that keeps bothering me did the neighbor during this fight here Caylee at all, cry, scream, did he perhaps see her in the yard or house. When KC took off I wonder if he saw was she alone, did she have Caylee? I have a feeling the neighbor heard and saw alot more then we have been made aware of. George, he is the one that scares me. On a few videos confronting people in front of his house, the rage in his eyes made me sit back and go WOW. Something tells me violence is no stranger in the Anthony home.

  16. #66
    LOL Yes, by my count...31 days makes it June 14th. June 15-July 15=30 days....so 31 days = June 14th.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  17. #67
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    Oops, I meant by my count the 31 days comes to June 15th.

    (I included July 15th in the count.)

    Still wondering why June 9th was the date that Cindy and Casey were determined to use until LE informed Cindy that the date of the video was June 15th. Strange to me.
    Last edited by LiveLoveLaughLiza; 09-23-2008 at 12:18 PM. Reason: to add more

  18. #68
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    IMO, the formula for every theory is pretty simple: Behavior + Timeline + Evidence (scientific).

    Behavior.
    KC's behavior didn't change. Nothing different between 'old' KC and the 'new' KC. A) KC was always the LIAR. She lied regarding her pregnancy, her work, her 'college'...and of course the 'nanny'. And she lied to everyone: her friends, her parents, LE...the reason why her friends couldn't see these lies because they're not care much about her work/college/'nanny' stuff...they meet to have a good time, to party, to drink...plus they're young. Why bother to pay attention to such a 'boring' details? However, her parents knew about (remember what Cindy told Amy in the car?); B) KC was always the SEX/PARTY girl. She's only 22 but look how many male partners she had, in how many 'serious' relationship she been involved. And how many one-night-stand she has (we only know about the fired police officer and possibly the real Caylee's father)? Her pattern to line-up the next boyfriend at the same time she has the current one is the 'stable' pattern for long-time; C) KC was always the THIEF. IMO, she was stealing money from her parents for long time. She even used her 'close' friends to 'milk-out' the money. She use JG to get $400 for 'rent', remember? You'll say it's not the theft. Yes, it is! The use of false pretend to gain the financial gain is the theft! And when her parents caught her with the credit card and grandparents thefts - they probably cut her off completely. So, she continue stealing money the 'hard'-way, without the scariness to be caught. Amy's checkbook was the convenience and she used it, no guilt, no regrets.
    D) KC was always the clever MANIPULATOR. I'm not going to waste the time on this one. Just listening to her phone calls from jail, her responses to LE, reading her facebook comments...I have no doubts that she is and always was the clever manipulator.

    Timeline.
    We do not have the complete timeline from June 15 until July 15. We know the certain events but not the accurate TIME and LOCATION of ALL EVENTS. The 'Timeline' tread on WS is an excellent start. But a lot of holes there because none of us have the full documents of the phone records, credit cards receives, banks transactions, surveillance tapes and so on. I'm sure that LE/FBI collected them as much as possible or at least working on this topic to make sure that every hour and location of Casey's 'journey' from June 15 until July 15 is accounted for.

    Evidence (scientific).
    This is the most important factor of the theory's formula: 'premeditate murder/accidental death/manslaughter' versa 'kidnapping/sold/hide' theories. If evidences are strong then 'premeditate murder/accidental death/manslaughter' theories are the one to explore. If not then 'kidnapping/sold/hide' theories are applicapable. And we can speculate either way based on the 'leaks' and/or LE/FBI 'possible' statements. IMO, if LE/FBI doesn't have enough evidences in support of 'murder' - KC will be charged with 'child neglect' and other fraud charges in November to keep her in jail as long as possible. The 'murder' charge has no time limitation therefore LE/FBI could do it in year or two, when they're ready.

    Now, because this tread is about theories, here is my theory (based on what I know today, of course). June 15 is the 'turning point' in KC life. No more financial supports from parents, no 'home', no place to stay for HER. But not for Caylee. Her mother wants/cares about Caylee and Caylee only. Her mother would support and provide home for Caylee, she will adopt Caylee. The ultimatum was made on June 15. KC is on her own from now on!. She runs from home crying, calls TonE and stays at his apartment over night. (I always wondering, why wouldn't she went to Lee? Interesting to see if she called Lee on late evening of June 15?). Caylee stays with Cindy. On June 16 morning, KC came back home after Cindy went to work. She sweet talked to Daddy, told him what kind of plans she has (something like, I found such a nice apartment for me, Caylee and TonE...or I'm getting engaged with TonE). Takes Caylee and leaves the house (exactly as GA stated). Few hours later, she called GA and CA on cell, at work and at home to make sure that they at work and nobody home. She returns with Caylee home. Her plan is to PAY BACK (punish!) her mother. You don't want me then you'll not going to have Caylee!!! If you only cares about Caylee then you'll pay for it! IMO, KC killed Caylee (how? I don't know, many possibilities exist). For KC it was important to do it at Cindy's home! KC action was based on her anger, emotion and egoism. However, after she completed her plan and saw the dead Caylee - the reality hits her and she panic! The rest of it is just the cover-up by the person we know: Casey the LIAR, Casey the MANIPULATOR...and all of the above. Sorry for the long post.
    Last edited by OpenMind4U; 09-23-2008 at 04:44 PM.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by mommyto5monkeys View Post
    WOW, that could be very possible
    I rewatched all the 1st bond hearing testimony last night/early this morning. One thing I noticed that when her mother was testifying CA cried immediately and during the whole thing. When her father got up to testify, she smiled at him (didn't cry so much) and that made me wonder whether she had a closer relationship with her dad or 'something else'. I felt something was 'going on' just because of how CA viewed her parents.

    I did want to bring this out: CA (grandma) testified that that L, the first babysitter used to come to their house to watch CA. Then it was JG and his family. CA knew them all. However, she said she had never met ZG, never had a reason to met her. Personally, I find that strange. To know the first couple of babysitters, then not to met or know the last babysitter? Never having a desire to know who is babysitting your precious grandaughter? Not to know if that person is trustworthy? I just find this really strange. Not once during the whole year that ZG was supposingly babysitting her to ever go with CA to pick up CA? I don't know. Weird to me.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by toledo View Post
    "sweetheart, you're not telling them the truth. Don't waste your phone call to yell at me."

    "I don't f***ing know where she is, are you KIDDING ME??"
    You know what, I just read that in a whole new light.
    Geez, now I have to rethink everything.......

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    Now..let's just say this for sake of debate only:
    Casey left Caylee with CA and GA when she went to Tony's that evening. She stormed out...alone.
    What happened after Casey left?
    She never took Caylee to AL's apartment to spend the night anyway, did she ?
    Last edited by Karen Anne RN; 09-24-2008 at 01:04 AM. Reason: re-thought post.

  22. #72
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    It's typical that a sociopath's anti-social behavior often escalates eventually leading to some horrible crime. Seems to me that Casey's anti-social behavior was escalating before Caylee went missing. She went from using her mom's credit cards to taking the routing number from her grandmother's checks, to istealing Amy's checks and mpersonating Amy to cash them. She went from dumping Caylee with her mom as babysitter to dumping Caylee god knows where or drugging her and putting her somewhere. None of this bodes well for Caylee. jmo.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpenMind4U View Post
    IMO, the formula for every theory is pretty simple: Behavior + Timeline + Evidence (scientific).

    Behavior.
    KC's behavior didn't change. Nothing different between 'old' KC and the 'new' KC. A) KC was always the LIAR. She lied regarding her pregnancy, her work, her 'college'...and of course the 'nanny'. And she lied to everyone: her friends, her parents, LE...the reason why her friends couldn't see these lies because they're not care much about her work/college/'nanny' stuff...they meet to have a good time, to party, to drink...plus they're young. Why bother to pay attention to such a 'boring' details? However, her parents knew about (remember what Cindy told Amy in the car?); B) KC was always the SEX/PARTY girl. She's only 22 but look how many male partners she had, in how many 'serious' relationship she been involved. And how many one-night-stand she has (we only know about the fired police officer and possibly the real Caylee's father)? Her pattern to line-up the next boyfriend at the same time she has the current one is the 'stable' pattern for long-time; C) KC was always the THIEF. IMO, she was stealing money from her parents for long time. She even used her 'close' friends to 'milk-out' the money. She use JG to get $400 for 'rent', remember? You'll say it's not the theft. Yes, it is! The use of false pretend to gain the financial gain is the theft! And when her parents caught her with the credit card and grandparents thefts - they probably cut her off completely. So, she continue stealing money the 'hard'-way, without the scariness to be caught. Amy's checkbook was the convenience and she used it, no guilt, no regrets.
    D) KC was always the clever MANIPULATOR. I'm not going to waste the time on this one. Just listening to her phone calls from jail, her responses to LE, reading her facebook comments...I have no doubts that she is and always was the clever manipulator.

    Timeline.
    We do not have the complete timeline from June 15 until July 15. We know the certain events but not the accurate TIME and LOCATION of ALL EVENTS. The 'Timeline' tread on WS is an excellent start. But a lot of holes there because none of us have the full documents of the phone records, credit cards receives, banks transactions, surveillance tapes and so on. I'm sure that LE/FBI collected them as much as possible or at least working on this topic to make sure that every hour and location of Casey's 'journey' from June 15 until July 15 is accounted for.

    Evidence (scientific).
    This is the most important factor of the theory's formula: 'premeditate murder/accidental death/manslaughter' versa 'kidnapping/sold/hide' theories. If evidences are strong then 'premeditate murder/accidental death/manslaughter' theories are the one to explore. If not then 'kidnapping/sold/hide' theories are applicapable. And we can speculate either way based on the 'leaks' and/or LE/FBI 'possible' statements. IMO, if LE/FBI doesn't have enough evidences in support of 'murder' - KC will be charged with 'child neglect' and other fraud charges in November to keep her in jail as long as possible. The 'murder' charge has no time limitation therefore LE/FBI could do it in year or two, when they're ready.

    Now, because this tread is about theories, here is my theory (based on what I know today, of course). June 15 is the 'turning point' in KC life. No more financial supports from parents, no 'home', no place to stay for HER. But not for Caylee. Her mother wants/cares about Caylee and Caylee only. Her mother would support and provide home for Caylee, she will adopt Caylee. The ultimatum was made on June 15. KC is on her own from now on!. She runs from home crying, calls TonE and stays at his apartment over night. (I always wondering, why wouldn't she went to Lee? Interesting to see if she called Lee on late evening of June 15?). Caylee stays with Cindy. On June 16 morning, KC came back home after Cindy went to work. She sweet talked to Daddy, told him what kind of plans she has (something like, I found such a nice apartment for me, Caylee and TonE...or I'm getting engaged with TonE). Takes Caylee and leaves the house (exactly as GA stated). Few hours later, she called GA and CA on cell, at work and at home to make sure that they at work and nobody home. She returns with Caylee home. Her plan is to PAY BACK (punish!) her mother. You don't want me then you'll not going to have Caylee!!! If you only cares about Caylee then you'll pay for it! IMO, KC killed Caylee (how? I don't know, many possibilities exist). For KC it was important to do it at Cindy's home! KC action was based on her anger, emotion and egoism. However, after she completed her plan and saw the dead Caylee - the reality hits her and she panic! The rest of it is just the cover-up by the person we know: Casey the LIAR, Casey the MANIPULATOR...and all of the above. Sorry for the long post.

    I'd like to add to your very good post that it was also said that Casey also stole checks from Lee and from her friend Ryan.

  24. #74
    If Casey killed Caylee, I don't think she was the only person involved. That's all I'm saying.

  25. #75
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    'If Casey killed Caylee, I don't think she was the only person involved'.

    I'm assuming you're talking about helping her to dispose/hide the body, right? It's possible. But...please look at all her friends: who would be so dedicated to her to get involved and keep quiet about for so long? KC's friends are just so call the 'party' friends. The only one dedicated friend she has - is JG. But he wouldn't do anything like that, IMO! So, who else? If some shady person outside of her 'old'/'new' groups of friend then this person wouldn't do such a thing for free. KC must pay for such a favor. And not small amount of money, IMO. So, again, the trace of the credit card cash withdrawal is very important. At the time of her arrest, she has almost $200 cash on her (see interview w/Lee). It's a lot of cash in the pocket for 22 year old girl. I can guarantee you that not many of her friends would have so much cash in their pocket. Majority of them are students. Therefore, if she did used someone to help her to dispose the body - it should be the 'low-life pay for' shady person...just MO...

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