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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpstreet View Post
    Thanks again SG. Sounds like, since the 90 day mark is just around the corner (week after next I think...), then it's reasonable to think the ME report in NC case might be either published... or released then sealed... in the very near term. Agree?
    I have no idea. However, you can call the ME's office and request info and ask if this has been completed yet. And, you can even go to that office when the report is complete/released and request to look at the report, with an explanation and once their permission has been granted.


  2. #32
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    O/T - if anyone is following the missing woman Kelly Morris - some search warrants have been released and it looks as if hubby and daddy might be in cahoots somewhat. I posted a link in her thread.
    FYI - If I make a typo I call it a Brain Fart. Till you go thru brain surgery you really can't appreciate that saying.
    As always my posts are just my opinion...


  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post
    However, you can call the ME's office and request info and ask if this has been completed yet. And, you can even go to that office when the report is complete/released and request to look at the report, with an explanation and once their permission has been granted.
    Looks like the autopsy in the Wynn case has been release now (posted on WRAL here).

    Not that the turnaround time on the Wynn case means anything to the NC case necessarily (all autopsy and related paperwork aren't necessarily the "same"), but the Wynn crime occurred over 110 days ago, and about 5 weeks prior to NC.

    [ So will wait at least another month or 2 before ringing the ME's phone on the NC results... ]


  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpstreet View Post
    Looks like the autopsy in the Wynn case has been release now (posted on WRAL here).

    Not that the turnaround time on the Wynn case means anything to the NC case necessarily (all autopsy and related paperwork aren't necessarily the "same"), but the Wynn crime occurred over 110 days ago, and about 5 weeks prior to NC.

    [ So will wait at least another month or 2 before ringing the ME's phone on the NC results... ]
    June 8th - 3.5 months. Looks to me the ME's office has been extremely busy there in Chapel Hill. Seems to be quite a run on murder over the summer. Just about 7 weeks up since Nancy was murdered, may be a while before we hear anything. But as you can see from the link you posted, not much will be learned other than COD. Not sure that really means much actually, we already know she was murdered.

    ETA - if I hear I will say.


  5. #35
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    I think some folks believe, even though the CPD said it wasn't 'random,' that she may have been hit by a car, or shot, or stabbed or something that would leave a lot of blood evidence or show something more random, despite what the authorities have said thus far. And there may be some who still believe it's a heart attack or stroke or something due to natural causes, again despite what was announced, and they will not believe anything they're told until they see the written autopsy report for themselves.

    If we learn COD was strangulation or BFT (blunt force trauma) or some combo, as you said earlier, does that really assuage any doubts? BTW for those who don't know this, both BFT and strangulation can be 'bloodless' crimes. (cf. JonBenet Ramsey who had an 8.5" BFT/skull fracture in which the bleeding from the injury was internal and not apparent until autopsy, in addition to the visible strangulation/garrote.)


  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post
    I think some folks believe, even though the CPD said it wasn't 'random,' that she may have been hit by a car, or shot, or stabbed or something that would leave a lot of blood evidence or show something more random, despite what the authorities have said thus far
    Are these COD's necessarily incompatible with the statement that it 'wasn't random'? [Ref Theory B]. If not, and the ME's report lists these as COD, then it's certainly 'of interest' information, and, while it wouldn't prove anything, might serve paint some doubts on the 'conventional theory' (BC did it in the house).

    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal
    If we learn COD was strangulation or BFT (blunt force trauma) or some combo, as you said earlier, does that really assuage any doubts? BTW for those who don't know this, both BFT and strangulation can be 'bloodless'
    It also wouldn't prove anything either way - you're right. Just curious though - is a bloodless BFT more common, or less common than a bloody one?

    Regardless, it still seems to me that COD would be an 'of value' datapoint to have given the vast amount of things we don't know about the case. It could very well be significant... or insignificant... but until we find out what it is, we won't know.

    Are you thinking that regardless of what COD is, there's zero chance it will change any of your current opinions of the case? [ Fair if so... just asking... ]


  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post
    I think some folks believe, even though the CPD said it wasn't 'random,' that she may have been hit by a car, or shot, or stabbed or something that would leave a lot of blood evidence or show something more random, despite what the authorities have said thus far. And there may be some who still believe it's a heart attack or stroke or something due to natural causes, again despite what was announced, and they will not believe anything they're told until they see the written autopsy report for themselves.

    If we learn COD was strangulation or BFT (blunt force trauma) or some combo, as you said earlier, does that really assuage any doubts? BTW for those who don't know this, both BFT and strangulation can be 'bloodless' crimes. (cf. JonBenet Ramsey who had an 8.5" BFT/skull fracture in which the bleeding from the injury was internal and not apparent until autopsy, in addition to the visible strangulation/garrote.)
    Brad boy sure did a lot of cleaning, enough to think this crime was either bloody or some bodily fluid was present upon completion of the murder. After all, he admits in his amended affidavit that he had cleaned the house the week before so Nancy wouldn't come home to a mess (right). The removal of the rug indicates to me there was some forensic reason to do so.

    I don't see how COD will relieve any suspicion or create anymore. It might however generate a more emotional response. I don't see how COD has anything to do with random versus non-random unless we are talking serial killer, which in Nancy's case, we are not.


  8. #38
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    Jump, with your interest in and lots of questions about the medical examiner's office, how autopsies are done, how quickly they get done, how they determine COD/manner of death and why they show certain things but not other things, etc, etc, I encourage you to find your local coroner/medical examiner and have a discussion with him/her. We're all just armchair amateurs/observers here and can only make certain assumptions based on our (limited) knowledge.

    You show a real passion/interest in the pathology stuff...I think you should definitely talk to a M.E. where you can ask all these questions and more and actually get answers rather than one of our opinions.


  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisincharlie View Post
    I don't see how COD will relieve any suspicion or create anymore.
    Hmmm...I guess for me, if COD ends up being strangulation (with likely little change of associated forensics), it certainly would not reduce my odds of Theory A. OTOH, if gunshot, or multiple gunshots, it probably would somewhat. [ Wouldn't eliminate it of course, but just based on what I know... it would reduce it's likelihood somewhat, in my view ]

    So, you're saying, regardless of COD, you can't imagine a scenario, where it would change view at all of the likely root cause? [ Fine if so... just asking ]


  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisincharlie View Post
    Brad boy sure did a lot of cleaning, enough to think this crime was either bloody or some bodily fluid was present upon completion of the murder. After all, he admits in his amended affidavit that he had cleaned the house the week before so Nancy wouldn't come home to a mess (right). The removal of the rug indicates to me there was some forensic reason to do so.
    Very true and good point! Of course there are others who don't find it odd at all that he spent 4+ hrs cleaning that morning and are unable (or unwilling) to correlate it with the possibility of a crime scene cleanup. I've always wondered why the house had to be scrubbed clean five days after Brad said he cleaned it and then Nancy came home to a 'mess' and cleaned it. Do your houses become pigstys in five days, necessitating scrubbing of floors, etc? Other than some dust, mine does not. Cluttered, sometimes yes. Dirty all over in 5 days? No.


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post
    We're all just armchair amateurs/observers here and can only make certain assumptions based on our (limited) knowledge.

    You show a real passion/interest in the pathology stuff...I think you should definitely talk to a M.E. where you can ask all these questions and more and actually get answers rather than one of our opinions.
    Thanks SG, and good suggestions. Don't sell yourself (or others on the board) too short though! I think there's definitely a good knowledge base here, and I continue to appreciate all the insights and sharing.

    But yeah, you're right, one has to take posts on WS for what they are... posts/opinions/etc on a web forum... no more, and no less, and I definitely do.

    Good tip about trying to look into "looking over the shoulder" of the local ME sometime... that would no doubt be a trip.


  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post
    Of course there are others who don't find it odd at all that he spent 4+ hrs cleaning that morning and are unable (or unwilling) to correlate it with the possibility of a crime scene cleanup.
    On the surface, I find it very odd, and suspicious for sure. I just wonder if he may have able to do a good enough job to leave only forensics that would have "been there anyway" (since she lived there), leaving LE with basically nothing but a "suspicious, but not necessarily guilt-proving" cleaning binge.


  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpstreet View Post
    Hmmm...I guess for me, if COD ends up being strangulation (with likely little change of associated forensics), it certainly would not reduce my odds of Theory A. OTOH, if gunshot, or multiple gunshots, it probably would somewhat. [ Wouldn't eliminate it of course, but just based on what I know... it would reduce it's likelihood somewhat, in my view ]

    So, you're saying, regardless of COD, you can't imagine a scenario, where it would change view at all of the likely root cause? [ Fine if so... just asking ]
    If you are asking if COD, regardless of what it is would make me suspect someone other than Brad - no, COD would not reduce my suspicion of Brad.


  14. #44
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    For me if COD was gunshot wound or vehicular homicide then yes, that would give me pause. BFT or strangulation or asphyxiation or some combo of the above? No it doesn't change things, IMHO.


  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpstreet View Post
    On the surface, I find it very odd, and suspicious for sure. I just wonder if he may have able to do a good enough job to leave only forensics that would have "been there anyway" (since she lived there), leaving LE with basically nothing but a "suspicious, but not necessarily guilt-proving" cleaning binge.
    I think the likelyhood of hair, if it turns out to be Nancy's, on the left front spoiler and in the right front wheel well of the 325 would be very hard to discount as anything other than being suspicious. Inside the boot of the car I could buy as possibly being meaningless. If luminol showed a blood stain the size of a nickel I could probably buy that as well, however I would not buy luminol revealing a spatter pattern or a large area of blood, even if it was Nancy's. The presence of evidence or lack of evidence must be put in perspective, not just bought as is. Relativity reigns.


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