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  1. #1
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    Focusing on the Root Cause

    Maybe I am making this way too simple but I feel everyone needs to focus, focus and, refocus on the root cause.

    Many, like me are guilty of focusing on the timeline and multitude of possible events _after the fact_ when we should be focused on the critical short time window when Caylee went from being in KC's charge to now 'missing'?

    It is as simple as focusing on when KC last had Caylee in her actual charge and what happened next in those early hours, verifiable and verified. KC has been allowed to float various different stories.

    We are currently being distracted to chase _after the fact_ red herrings or prove the fate of Caylee, either missing or deceased -- when that's harder than drilling into the original root cause.

    KC searching for Caylee, following other people's leads and sightings is the ultimate in distraction, she is the _only one_ who knows how Caylee went from being in her control to being gone. Focus on that, start from there not where she is possibly now.

    If, for example, KC handed Caylee to ZXZ then that info can be followed to its natural conclusion. If KC handed Caylee to ZFG then she needs to pick a story, pick one and have it scrutinized. Focus on that. If it is a lie then she is tried based on that lie.

    To determine the credibility of any theory that Caylee is only missing requires a valid story as to 'how' she became to be missing. Those precious hours are key.

    I know that this does not provide an answer BUT we are being distracted and deflected by new info, 'sightings' and 'photos' -- chasing our tails -- but skipping the key crucial step -- how did the change in status from Caylee being with KC to being missing actually happen? KC knows.

    Focus on that, press JB, the defense, KC to provide an explanation on that small time window that is verifiable and is verified -- it provides the next logical path. Nail her down (if she wants to help or call that out, if not).

    If there are continued lies or distractive 'noise' then why? Validating the root story provides perspective and puts the focus back where it needs to be, right back on KC and eliminates all the distracting noise.

    Ignore the noise and the claims of threats, fear, mafia, kidnappers and keep going back to the root _when KC no longer had Caylee_. The answer is there, who last had/saw Caylee within the A family?

    Otherwise we are working in a 'backwards way' on too many invalid leads.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Arwen's Avatar
    Arwen is offline Caylee is worth about 1,000,000 Casey Anthonys.
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    That would be great! Just get KC to tell us the truth and we'd love to hear it. Something possible, something provable not a new story she thinks might "do it" this time. It would be wonderful to do what you say... as soon as we can get one ounce of truth out of KC's mouth.

    The story we know is that on the 16th of June, GA saw them leave and that was the last time anyone other than KC saw Caylee. That's it. Past there all lies... there are discrepancies about that story too but it is at least possible.
    Truth is not only violated by falsehood; it may be equally outraged by silence.
    -- Henri Frederic Amiel

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
    -- Aldous Huxley

    All opinions expressed are that... merely my opinions, thoughts, musings as it were.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arwen View Post
    That would be great! Just get KC to tell us the truth and we'd love to hear it. Something possible, something provable not a new story she thinks might "do it" this time. It would be wonderful to do what you say... as soon as we can get one ounce of truth out of KC's mouth.
    Isn't that the crucial point though -- if Caylee is missing then focus on why KC is not telling the truth, the orignal story rather than the follow-on theories and sightings?

    Ask JB repeatedly. When Todd Black tells these PR propaganda stories go back to the fundamentals each time, put the focus back. Ask again, what happened then?

    I agree with the frustration on the lies but to me, that's where the focus needs to be -- especially if Caylee is alive. Very telling.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberborg View Post
    Maybe I am making this way too simple but I feel everyone needs to focus, focus and, refocus on the root cause.

    Many, like me are guilty of focusing on the timeline and multitude of possible events _after the fact_ when we should be focused on the critical short time window when Caylee went from being in KC's charge to now 'missing'?

    It is as simple as focusing on when KC last had Caylee in her actual charge and what happened next in those early hours, verifiable and verified. KC has been allowed to float various different stories.

    We are currently being distracted to chase _after the fact_ red herrings or prove the fate of Caylee, either missing or deceased -- when that's harder than drilling into the original root cause.

    KC searching for Caylee, following other people's leads and sightings is the ultimate in distraction, she is the _only one_ who knows how Caylee went from being in her control to being gone. Focus on that, start from there not where she is possibly now.

    If, for example, KC handed Caylee to ZXZ then that info can be followed to its natural conclusion. If KC handed Caylee to ZFG then she needs to pick a story, pick one and have it scrutinized. Focus on that. If it is a lie then she is tried based on that lie.

    To determine the credibility of any theory that Caylee is only missing requires a valid story as to 'how' she became to be missing. Those precious hours are key.

    I know that this does not provide an answer BUT we are being distracted and deflected by new info, 'sightings' and 'photos' -- chasing our tails -- but skipping the key crucial step -- how did the change in status from Caylee being with KC to being missing actually happen? KC knows.

    Focus on that, press JB, the defense, KC to provide an explanation on that small time window that is verifiable and is verified -- it provides the next logical path. Nail her down (if she wants to help or call that out, if not).

    If there are continued lies or distractive 'noise' then why? Validating the root story provides perspective and puts the focus back where it needs to be, right back on KC and eliminates all the distracting noise.

    Ignore the noise and the claims of threats, fear, mafia, kidnappers and keep going back to the root _when KC no longer had Caylee_. The answer is there, who last had/saw Caylee within the A family?

    Otherwise we are working in a 'backwards way' on too many invalid leads.

    Thoughts?
    Aye yi yi. The inherent problem here is that the person who was last with Caylee is an alleged sociopath/psychopath/pathological liar. In my opinion, I cannot trust ANYTHING Casey says. As it has been stated and belaboured here, "How do you know Casey is lying? Answer: Her lips are moving."

    The next logical step would be to look at the other caregivers to help find the child. Uhhhhhh...okay. Next! In my opinion, I cannot trust ANYTHING they say either. [This is just my opinion!] I have found too many inconsistencies in their stories both under oath and off the record to beat my head against the wall or chase phantoms under their direction.

    So then where does one look? Other than the groundsearch work here in Orlando, I focus on what can be verified (cell phone logs, texts, times, computer forensics, etc.). I think that tracking the pings and then following up with ground searching is what is going to find Caylee. After she is recovered hopefully there will be *something* left to determine cause of death.

    What is your solution?

    Casey has an attorney. She don't have to say 'nuffin'. She's told LE what she is willing to tell them (which would have been better if she HAD said nothing!). The A's have attorneys. They don't have to say 'nuffin' either. At the rate they re-spin Casey's tales I would rather not hear from them either! You can't force any of them at this point to give you the goods.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberborg View Post
    Maybe I am making this way too simple but I feel everyone needs to focus, focus and, refocus on the root cause.

    Many, like me are guilty of focusing on the timeline and multitude of possible events _after the fact_ when we should be focused on the critical short time window when Caylee went from being in KC's charge to now 'missing'?

    It is as simple as focusing on when KC last had Caylee in her actual charge and what happened next in those early hours, verifiable and verified. KC has been allowed to float various different stories.

    We are currently being distracted to chase _after the fact_ red herrings or prove the fate of Caylee, either missing or deceased -- when that's harder than drilling into the original root cause.

    KC searching for Caylee, following other people's leads and sightings is the ultimate in distraction, she is the _only one_ who knows how Caylee went from being in her control to being gone. Focus on that, start from there not where she is possibly now.

    If, for example, KC handed Caylee to ZXZ then that info can be followed to its natural conclusion. If KC handed Caylee to ZFG then she needs to pick a story, pick one and have it scrutinized. Focus on that. If it is a lie then she is tried based on that lie.

    To determine the credibility of any theory that Caylee is only missing requires a valid story as to 'how' she became to be missing. Those precious hours are key.

    I know that this does not provide an answer BUT we are being distracted and deflected by new info, 'sightings' and 'photos' -- chasing our tails -- but skipping the key crucial step -- how did the change in status from Caylee being with KC to being missing actually happen? KC knows.

    Focus on that, press JB, the defense, KC to provide an explanation on that small time window that is verifiable and is verified -- it provides the next logical path. Nail her down (if she wants to help or call that out, if not).

    If there are continued lies or distractive 'noise' then why? Validating the root story provides perspective and puts the focus back where it needs to be, right back on KC and eliminates all the distracting noise.

    Ignore the noise and the claims of threats, fear, mafia, kidnappers and keep going back to the root _when KC no longer had Caylee_. The answer is there, who last had/saw Caylee within the A family?

    Otherwise we are working in a 'backwards way' on too many invalid leads.

    Thoughts?
    Exactly. KC has NEVER told anyone where to start. Unless and until she does, then Team Anthony can make no legitimate claims of anything or accusations against anyone but KC. People can't look for an alive Caylee like Cindy and George want unless they know where to start. People can't assume that KC did nothing wrong when she's never told the police or any one else who's made it known exactly where she left Caylee, why and with whom with specific facts which make sense and can be verified. Makes perfect sense that in the absense of that info., people assume she's coming forward with that information because she herself is responsible for the deminse of Caylee.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by yolorado View Post
    Exactly. KC has NEVER told anyone where to start. Unless and until she does, then Team Anthony can make no legitimate claims of anything or accusations against anyone but KC. People can't look for an alive Caylee like Cindy and George want unless they know where to start. People can't assume that KC did nothing wrong when she's never told the police or any one else who's made it known exactly where she left Caylee and with whom with specific facts which make sense and can be verified. Makes perfect sense that in the absense of that info., people assume she's coming forward with that information because she herself is responsible for the deminse of Caylee.
    Exactly!

    Everytime the defense, JB, KC, CA, and so on float another distraction or lead that misses the starting point we reset them back to basics.

    O.k., so how did that originally occur? How did this start? Else we dismiss it and hold their feet to the fire. You cannot start another fairy tale or be treated credibly unless you fill in the blanks. It is on you not us.

  7. #7
    Arwen's Avatar
    Arwen is offline Caylee is worth about 1,000,000 Casey Anthonys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberborg View Post
    Isn't that the crucial point though -- if Caylee is missing then focus on why KC is not telling the truth, the orignal story rather than the follow-on theories and sightings?

    Ask JB repeatedly. When Todd Black tells these PR propaganda stories go back to the fundamentals each time, put the focus back. Ask again, what happened then?

    I agree with the frustration on the lies but to me, that's where the focus needs to be -- especially if Caylee is alive. Very telling.
    The main reasons people lie are:

    1. To appease another person

    We see this example throughout the case, KC appeased everyone for at least one month about the location of Caylee by lying.

    2. To attempt to make our life better

    Life isn't very good in jail...

    3. To hurt another person emotionally

    I wouldn't be surprised if this came into factor between KC and CA and maybe even JG and his family.

    4. To manipulate a circumstance, or person

    To manipulate JG, his family, LE, CA, GA, pretty much everyone KC has ever known or talked to is pretty much shown throughout this case.

    5. To hide a truth

    BINGO! We have a winner! To HIDE a truth. Forensics show that a dead body (namely someone matching the same mDNA as Casey since we haven't heard of anyone else that COULD be since no one else descended from KC, CA or CA's mother has died or gone missing recently we know it is, in fact, Caylee) was in KC's trunk. To hide the truth that Caylee is dead. If it were accidental there would be no reason to lie or hide the truth once detectives give you that "out." The only reason to lie is that you are GUILTY.
    Truth is not only violated by falsehood; it may be equally outraged by silence.
    -- Henri Frederic Amiel

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
    -- Aldous Huxley

    All opinions expressed are that... merely my opinions, thoughts, musings as it were.

  8. #8
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    It really is very simple. Caylee was last verifiably seen on June 15 with CA at the nursing home. A neighbor heard a huge argument in the evening of June 15 at the Anthony home. CA said she heard Caylee and KC in the bedroom on the morning of June 16, GA said he saw Caylee and KC leave in the afternoon of June 16 at 12:50. Caylee was never seen again by GA, CA, LA, any friends of KC, any neighbors of the A's, any credible person. KC said that she handed Caylee over to ZG (a babysitter of approx. 2 years, who nobody involved with KC or Caylee ever met or spoke to, there are no photos, contact numbers, etc. for this person). I think that we can safely assume, this person does not and never did exist. That brings us back to the last person to have Caylee in her possession and that was KC. What did she do with her? I can only conclude that she killed her and disposed of her body (maybe with help). There is no other explanation that makes any sense. Hence, we don't need to listen to anything further that KC says, the A's say, JB says. We can just ignore them and give ourselves a break. We can put our full faith in LE and the SA to give us the factual technical and forensic information and a jury to charge her accordingly.

  9. #9
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    Cyberborg, I won't be able to say this as well as you but do you mean something like this?
    we could take each story that KC told from the beginning ...when she told it and to whom it was told and follow that to it's most logical conclusion with the info available..
    then examine the NEXT story, etc, etc......and how and why it was changed each time.......
    or something like that
    I agree how easy it is to go following rabbit trails and get off the main road.........and go in circles just like I think "someone" would like us to.........
    the "simple truth" might be just that!......simple, obvious???

    (I really don't know how to help do this ........most of the time here I feel like a kindergartner trying to play ball with a bunch of PHD's......but I REALLY appreciate everyone who makes all this possible and shares so much with all of us....)
    just some thoughts I had , maybe my brain just cannot handle this overload of information .......yikes!....I probably should delete this.......

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexington View Post
    It really is very simple. Caylee was last verifiably seen on June 15 with CA at the nursing home. A neighbor heard a huge argument in the evening of June 15 at the Anthony home. CA said she heard Caylee and KC in the bedroom on the morning of June 16, GA said he saw Caylee and KC leave in the afternoon of June 16 at 12:50. Caylee was never seen again by GA, CA, LA, any friends of KC, any neighbors of the A's, any credible person. KC said that she handed Caylee over to ZG (a babysitter of approx. 2 years, who nobody involved with KC or Caylee ever met or spoke to, there are no photos, contact numbers, etc. for this person). I think that we can safely assume, this person does not and never did exist. That brings us back to the last person to have Caylee in her possession and that was KC. What did she do with her? I can only conclude that she killed her and disposed of her body (maybe with help). There is no other explanation that makes any sense. Hence, we don't need to listen to anything further that KC says, the A's say, JB says. We can just ignore them and give ourselves a break. We can put our full faith in LE and the SA to give us the factual technical and forensic information and a jury to charge her accordingly.
    Completely agree.

    My point was simply we keep KC responsible. Keep the focus on KC.

    It keeps on shifting because folks want to 'believe', give the benefit of the doubt, want to treat a new theory as possibly credible until analyzed BUT the common flaw in them all is -- how did that start then? Same source.

    These new stories and sightings are a defense distraction to create reasonable doubt in a future jury pool and, if we keep everyone including the future jury focused on KC -- how did Caylee depart from your charge -- we focus on the problem and not a distraction. No confusion.


  11. #11
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    I don't know. If we go back to the beginning, we have the workers at the nursing home who saw Caylee on 6/15 in the afternoon. Everyone who saw Caylee after that were family members so for me that's where I start. What happened after that I am not so certain, but I do know that no one outside the family saw her after that afternoon on the 15th of June.
    Children don't stop dancing

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharetheLight View Post
    I don't know. If we go back to the beginning, we have the workers at the nursing home who saw Caylee on 6/15 in the afternoon. Everyone who saw Caylee after that were family members so for me that's where I start. What happened after that I am not so certain, but I do know that no one outside the family saw her after that afternoon on the 15th of June.
    Ok.
    On the 15th June the neighbor heard a verbal fight.
    1)Any reason for the neighbor to lie?
    if most likely the answer is "no" then go to #2
    On the morning of the 16th George's story is that everything is just as usual
    2)Does George have a reason to lie?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by okiedokietoo View Post
    Ok.
    On the 15th June the neighbor heard a verbal fight.
    1)Any reason for the neighbor to lie?
    if most likely the answer is "no" then go to #2
    On the morning of the 16th George's story is that everything is just as usual
    2)Does George have a reason to lie?
    #1 - is no
    #2 - is yes
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by okiedokietoo View Post
    Ok.
    On the 15th June the neighbor heard a verbal fight.
    1)Any reason for the neighbor to lie?
    if most likely the answer is "no" then go to #2
    On the morning of the 16th George's story is that everything is just as usual
    2)Does George have a reason to lie?
    The only thing that niggles at the back of my head regarding GA and his story about the morning of the 16th, seeing Caylee and Casey dressed and leaving for "work" is this.....when Casey was finally busted by Cindy on July 15th, she said "I haven't see my daughter in 31 days" Pretty specific, not "a month" not "since last month", but specifically 31 days.
    If you count back from July 15th 31 days, you arrive at June 15th, not 16th.
    The big fight was the evening of the 15th, I'm really really thinking that night was the night Caylee died. And I also think GA is full of.....(be nice)...hot air. IMHO.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by okiedokietoo View Post
    Ok.
    On the 15th June the neighbor heard a verbal fight.
    1)Any reason for the neighbor to lie?
    if most likely the answer is "no" then go to #2
    On the morning of the 16th George's story is that everything is just as usual
    2)Does George have a reason to lie?
    Quote Originally Posted by krimekat View Post
    #1 - is no
    #2 - is yes
    Yes, and this is part of the problem. George has lost a lot of credibility, so is it even safe to assume he was telling the truth about seeing Caylee leave with Casey on the 16th? For all we know, she could have taken off with Caylee the evening of the 15th.
    It just pi$$es me off, we are talking about a 2-year-old child here, not a licensed teenager, and these 'people' can't even pin down a reliable time of when she went missing.
    Lanie

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