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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles View Post
    You know, hindsight is a wonderful thing but as you say, if you google hotel + baby listening you'll get tons of hits. It's really common in Europe. There are different ways of doing it. Some places rent the parents a baby monitor, but these are only suitable within a small range. Others send a member of staff around to walk around and listen at the door of the rooms or apartment. You often see this in hotels. They mark up a sheet on a clipboard to say they've checked - we've used this ourselves on vacation. You tell reception where you'll be (e.g. in the bar)and if they hear a baby crying, they contact you there. What the McCanns did was a step up from this since they actually went into the apartment to check the kids. The irony is, if they had used the hotels baby listening service, Madeleine may not have been discovered missing for another couple of hours and yet many people would have found their arrangements more acceptable!
    ---
    I personally do not find any method acceptable for leaving toddlers unattended for any amount of time. I don't see how any intelligent, educated, professional parents could justify in their own minds that what they did was acceptable. Good parents? BS.

  2. #17
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    I had not heard of "baby listening services" until reading here. Thanks for the education. FWIW, it's not a service I would be comfortable using, with my kids the rule is usually, "if they're too quiet, they are up to something", even when they're supposed to be sleeping, too many things can happen. JMO.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonetraveler View Post
    ---
    I personally do not find any method acceptable for leaving toddlers unattended for any amount of time. I don't see how any intelligent, educated, professional parents could justify in their own minds that what they did was acceptable. Good parents? BS.
    Well all I can say is that we all have different opinions about what makes good parents and let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

    I think the key is that the McCanns didn't think their kids would be in danger. I read a lengthy article about this written by a female lawyer whose name escapes me. It was an excellent article and it argued the ins and outs from a legal and sociological standpoint. The bottom line is that as parents, we take risk assessments all the time. We decide whether it's safe for our children to cross a road on their own, whether it's safe for them to play in the graden unsupervised, safe to come home from a friend's house after dark, etc.

    The McCanns weren't the only parents who put their kids to bed and went to the restaurant, nor will they be the last. I understand that British and Dutch parents do this habitually on vacation. At the end of the day, with hindsight, they made a bad judgement and they have to live with the consequences. However, there is really nothing to be gained from beating them up about it day in and day out for years after the event. The only thing that will achieve is to make the beater-up feel better I suppose.

    I've found peoples' reactions to this fascinating at times. I never realised that there were so many self-righteous parents! I remember one "lady" (I do use the term loosely) and I think she was either on this forum or the Mirror forum. Her kids weren't babies but she was so keen to demonstrate what a great mother she was that she claimed she got up and went into their bedrooms to check they were ok several times every night. Imagine that? Personally I found it a bit OCD and I can't imagine the lack of sleep would help her energy levels for good parenting either OTOH, she might have been exaggerating - a little
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyz_Mum View Post
    I had not heard of "baby listening services" until reading here. Thanks for the education. FWIW, it's not a service I would be comfortable using, with my kids the rule is usually, "if they're too quiet, they are up to something", even when they're supposed to be sleeping, too many things can happen. JMO.
    Well that's true, but OTOH, there's a healthy balance. Kids of 2+ aren't likely to suffer cot deaths and they are big enough to sit up if they are sick. I fussed with my first born and checked he was breathing every ten minutes but after that, I grew a bit of common sense :-)

    Lots of people have kids who go to bed after tea and then sleep all night. I don't know many people who obsessively check their toddlers during the night.
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





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  5. #20
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    I don't mean this as a self righteous thing, but after Jessica Lunsford's abduction, I did get up and check on the kids many times during the night. OCD? Most likely. (I also don't mean my other comments about leaving the kids alone in the hotel room as being self righteous and hope I don't come across that way.)

    When something like the abduction of a child takes place, at home, on vacation or on their way home from school, it just makes me (personally) try to be more aware and enhances my OCD tendencies.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyz_Mum View Post
    I don't mean this as a self righteous thing, but after Jessica Lunsford's abduction, I did get up and check on the kids many times during the night. OCD? Most likely. (I also don't mean my other comments about leaving the kids alone in the hotel room as being self righteous and hope I don't come across that way.)

    When something like the abduction of a child takes place, at home, on vacation or on their way home from school, it just makes me (personally) try to be more aware and enhances my OCD tendencies.
    I think there's a difference between what you are describing which is your natural maternal OCD which kicks in when something happens and someone claiming that this is their normal "excellent parenting" routine (and that anyone who does less is a bad parent!) :-)

    I'm a really heavy sleeper and it does worry me that I'd sleep right through some disastrous event. It's natural sleep so what can I do? I've got an internal alarm system rigged up so that my mother who stays with us and sleeps downstairs can call me during the night if need be. It's basically just a wireless doorbell and my daughter rigged it so that it plays "It's a small world". The other tunes weren't much better... But I have this fear that my mother will take ill during the night and whilst she's suffering horribly, I'll be having sweet dreams about DisneyWorld....

    Seriously, though, I do on a rare occasion waken during the night with a bad dream and then I always get up and check on my daughter.
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





    Alert Viewer in Scotland

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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
    Was it confirmed she was at the creche at 5.30 tho? Because if your relying on Charlotte Pennington ive seen two different versions of her story.
    The time 5.30 is listed in the PJ's final report

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon View Post
    The time 5.30 is listed in the PJ's final report
    Rash, I've posted this twice for you now in the last couple of days.

    Tea was served at 5.30pm in the creche. The nanny says all three children were there and were collected at 6pm. She says there was a large group in that night - plenty of independent witnesses I should say.

    These creches require parents to book them in and out. We've always had to sign for our daughter on collection.

    Two different versions of Charlotte Pennington's story doesn't mean she changed her story. Plus she wasn't the only nanny there.
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





    Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Member of Websleuths since April 2000

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonetraveler View Post
    ---
    Just dropped in to check on this thread and was curious about your statement regarding "baby listening" that the McCanns arranged for their children. I was not aware that they had a method of "baby listening". What was the system? I must have missed something. I thought that they only tooks turns once in a while to go and check on the children. I was not aware that they had a method of actually "hearing" the children. Baby Monitor? What?
    You are correct - that was there method of "baby listening"
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
    say that because I know how I would react. I'm a lot
    like my sister as far as how we would react.


    John Morgan: I can tell.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles View Post
    You know, hindsight is a wonderful thing but as you say, if you google hotel + baby listening you'll get tons of hits. It's really common in Europe. There are different ways of doing it. Some places rent the parents a baby monitor, but these are only suitable within a small range. Others send a member of staff around to walk around and listen at the door of the rooms or apartment. You often see this in hotels. They mark up a sheet on a clipboard to say they've checked - we've used this ourselves on vacation. You tell reception where you'll be (e.g. in the bar)and if they hear a baby crying, they contact you there. What the McCanns did was a step up from this since they actually went into the apartment to check the kids. The irony is, if they had used the hotels baby listening service, Madeleine may not have been discovered missing for another couple of hours and yet many people would have found their arrangements more acceptable!
    Of course if the McCanns had used the resorts minding service..there would been no chance she could have gone missing at ALL.
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
    say that because I know how I would react. I'm a lot
    like my sister as far as how we would react.


    John Morgan: I can tell.


  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles View Post
    Well all I can say is that we all have different opinions about what makes good parents and let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

    I think the key is that the McCanns didn't think their kids would be in danger. I read a lengthy article about this written by a female lawyer whose name escapes me. It was an excellent article and it argued the ins and outs from a legal and sociological standpoint. The bottom line is that as parents, we take risk assessments all the time. We decide whether it's safe for our children to cross a road on their own, whether it's safe for them to play in the graden unsupervised, safe to come home from a friend's house after dark, etc.

    The McCanns weren't the only parents who put their kids to bed and went to the restaurant, nor will they be the last. I understand that British and Dutch parents do this habitually on vacation. At the end of the day, with hindsight, they made a bad judgement and they have to live with the consequences. However, there is really nothing to be gained from beating them up about it day in and day out for years after the event. The only thing that will achieve is to make the beater-up feel better I suppose.

    I've found peoples' reactions to this fascinating at times. I never realised that there were so many self-righteous parents! I remember one "lady" (I do use the term loosely) and I think she was either on this forum or the Mirror forum. Her kids weren't babies but she was so keen to demonstrate what a great mother she was that she claimed she got up and went into their bedrooms to check they were ok several times every night. Imagine that? Personally I found it a bit OCD and I can't imagine the lack of sleep would help her energy levels for good parenting either OTOH, she might have been exaggerating - a little
    Well..on the other hand..she has her children with her right now. I know which i think is the better parent. MOO
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
    say that because I know how I would react. I'm a lot
    like my sister as far as how we would react.


    John Morgan: I can tell.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles View Post
    Rash, I've posted this twice for you now in the last couple of days.

    Tea was served at 5.30pm in the creche. The nanny says all three children were there and were collected at 6pm. She says there was a large group in that night - plenty of independent witnesses I should say.

    These creches require parents to book them in and out. We've always had to sign for our daughter on collection.

    Two different versions of Charlotte Pennington's story doesn't mean she changed her story. Plus she wasn't the only nanny there.

    Erm in one story she said she saw Madeleine at lunch. The other she said she saw her at tea time.

    WoW..these people can give as many differing stories as they want..and still..they "havent changed there story".

    With all respect Charlotte Pennington liked to drink and was dismissed for it. Who knows if she remembers what she really saw.
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
    say that because I know how I would react. I'm a lot
    like my sister as far as how we would react.


    John Morgan: I can tell.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
    Erm in one story she said she saw Madeleine at lunch. The other she said she saw her at tea time.
    You have sources for this?

    More likely in one story it said she saw Madeleine at lunch and in another it said she saw Madeleine at tea? You don't think one of the Portuguese tabloids reporting it maybe got the translation wrong? You don't make allowances for discrepancies like this when there's different languages involved?

    WoW..these people can give as many differing stories as they want..and still..they "havent changed there story".
    Don't you know that "these people" often just give ONE interview which is then picked up by several newspapers? Jane Tanner's interview with Panorama was reported in several tabloids but she didn't speak to any of them.

    Newspapers often get things wrong. Many years ago, I was in a car accident. The local newspaper reported it and said that I had been a passenger in the car and that I had been injured. In fact, I was driving the car and I was unhurt. I didn't speak to any journalists and was very surprised to see the article.

    With all respect Charlotte Pennington liked to drink and was dismissed for it. Who knows if she remembers what she really saw.
    Are you saying she is an alchoholic or that she was "drunk on the job" - or so "out of it" that she didn't know the difference between lunch and tea?

    I promise you that if and when you realise that the tabloids don't always print the truth, this case will become much easier to understand.
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





    Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Member of Websleuths since April 2000

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles View Post
    You have sources for this?

    More likely in one story it said she saw Madeleine at lunch and in another it said she saw Madeleine at tea? You don't think one of the Portuguese tabloids reporting it maybe got the translation wrong? You don't make allowances for discrepancies like this when there's different languages involved?



    Don't you know that "these people" often just give ONE interview which is then picked up by several newspapers? Jane Tanner's interview with Panorama was reported in several tabloids but she didn't speak to any of them.

    Newspapers often get things wrong. Many years ago, I was in a car accident. The local newspaper reported it and said that I had been a passenger in the car and that I had been injured. In fact, I was driving the car and I was unhurt. I didn't speak to any journalists and was very surprised to see the article.



    Are you saying she is an alchoholic or that she was "drunk on the job" - or so "out of it" that she didn't know the difference between lunch and tea?

    I promise you that if and when you realise that the tabloids don't always print the truth, this case will become much easier to understand.
    For the record it wasnt the Portugese press. She gave one interview one of the tabloids where she dreamed of being a fairy. I guess it takes all sorts and in that interview she stated that she last saw Madeleine at teatine. Some time later she was interviewed on the Dispatches programme where she said she last saw her at Lunch. Now this was two interviews to BRITISH media..and so no translation problems at all.

    As for the drunk thing..she was dismissed from Mark Warners because of drink problems.

    To clarify what i have just put..i have enclosed a link..

    http://www.mccannfiles.com/id70.html

    People can make up there own mind on Charlotte Pennington and how truthful they think she is
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
    say that because I know how I would react. I'm a lot
    like my sister as far as how we would react.


    John Morgan: I can tell.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
    For the record it wasnt the Portugese press. She gave one interview one of the tabloids where she dreamed of being a fairy. I guess it takes all sorts and in that interview she stated that she last saw Madeleine at teatine. Some time later she was interviewed on the Dispatches programme where she said she last saw her at Lunch. Now this was two interviews to BRITISH media..and so no translation problems at all.

    As for the drunk thing..she was dismissed from Mark Warners because of drink problems.

    To clarify what i have just put..i have enclosed a link..

    http://www.mccannfiles.com/id70.html

    People can make up there own mind on Charlotte Pennington and how truthful they think she is
    What she is quoted as saying is that she lasting saw them McCanns as a family at lunchtime.

    This McCannfiles website appears to be anti-McCann, not unbiased. Unfortunately, the Dispatches programme is not available on YouTube. I did have it saved on my skybox but it was deleted when we had a repair done to it earflier this year.

    Fortunately, the Creche check-in records are part of the police files. In my experience, parents have to sign their children out and the time is recorded. So I imagine there will be a record of Madeleine's drop off and collection times to corroborate the nanny testimonies.

    105 to 118—Sign-in/check-in Warner/crèche lists
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





    Alert Viewer in Scotland

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