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  1. #1
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    Testimonies 10/16/08

    I want to post what testimony I heard and what notes I took. Also, I am adding in my posts what I witnessed inside and outside the courthouse.
    “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain~

  2. #2
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    Miscellaneous

    Misc Information about court hearing on Oct 16, 2008


    -Courtroom was close to full, approx 60-70 people head count.
    -Our row was the only one that had room to seat the public. Of course the front row, but that was for plaintiffs.
    -Microphone not working well at all, so some testimony was not heard well.
    -Laptops allowed inside, but no transmittal allowed.
    -Judge stopped once and called off the stand to announce someone had done a transmittal, would be held in contempt of court.
    -One person in the courtroom was told not to make another gesture, I think it was a head movement, she had been nodding.
    -One security inside watching members of the courtroom, 2 doors to halls with windows, had wake county sheriff watching, sometimes entering behind media. I think they were reminding media they were watching.
    -Plaintiff and defendant had 3 attorneys. Blum was not present, only Kurtz.
    -BC father was present. They had others with them, but since we don't know who is who because they have not had media focused on them and we do know NC family and friends via media it is hard to know who was who.
    -Judge Sasser very into the case, never stopped taking notes.
    -Stubbs asked the judge to review video with BC lied about last name of Jennifer. At the time Sasser said it would be hard to believe BC couldn't remember her last name when it was more than a casual acquaintance. Stubbs told because of time constraints Jennifer could not be here since she only got contacted on the 11th? Sasser ruled JCB affidavit would not be allowed after reviewing BC deposition.
    -JA and HP were not subpoenaed to court.
    -It appeared JA dad was with her as well as husband with her. Not positive, but appeared to be.
    -Outside courtroom, tv camera media was swarming and stayed entire time.
    -SG and I hid behind nooks and crannies to not get caught on the camera.
    -SG & I had an 'OH CHIT' moment, what do we do now? After lunch when SG and I had to catch an elevator, we jumped on one going down to P floor, only then to ride up to 8th knowing it would be quickest for us to get an elevator. Well, to our surprise Wade Smith and NC family decided to cram on the elevator after us. Then we had to make a game plan to head in the direction of the DA's office or the bathroom (again) and not the courtroom. Cram is the only word because in Wake County courthouse it is the way you can ride up. In other words, MEDIA, caught you at the elevators, and coming & going out of the courtroom.
    -While eating SG & I saw Blum pass outside where we were…he never was in the courtroom.
    “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain~

  3. #3
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    Mr. Rentz

    Mr. Rentz, 1st witness.

    **BC would not look up at while Mr or Mrs. Rentz were on the stand. He would look at the other witnesses.
    Only spoke to NC by cell because thoughts of BC monitoring phone calls
    NC called tearful and angry when BC cut her off accounts and CC.
    Supported statement BC had intentions of moving also to Toronto
    Aware HP lent $ to NC.
    NC was very tearful at the Charlotte airport when it came time to leave back to Canada after the HH trip.
    5:53 Monday July 7th, NC called and left voice message to her parents. It was played in court. All of NC friends began crying at the sound of her voice. She expressed the condition of the home when she got back to being a mess as her friends had stated.
    BC never contacted Katie for her birthday in any manner….email, phone, present, etc.
    BC murdered Nancy I feel….motivation and access
    Motive=money

    Cross exam
    Mr Rentz agreed.....
    Matter of opinion to what clean is
    No violence towards NC
    Witnessed arguments that is normal in marriage
    Never heard BC threaten suicide
    $30K charged by NC in 2007
    Understood BC take home per month was $5400
    Coopers provided $
    NC borrowed several times for home issues, fence, bath leaks, ceiling repairs, etc
    Mr. Rentz admitted he was tightening the purse strings on NC.
    Sandlin….If you were going to tighten the purse strings, don't you think its fair to say BC needed to do it also?
    Rentz…Yes, reasonable to say.

    When Rentz was asked about the birthday party and how NO ONE notified BC about it…the look and twisting of his mouth you knew what he was thinking….BUT I was so wrong in his response
    He said, GOOD MORNING AMERICA KNEW! The courtroom burst out in laughter.
    “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain~

  4. #4
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    Krista Lister

    2nd witness, Krister Lister

    Emotional in the beginning, but got better when the testimony went moved to the girls and away from NC.
    NC would finish my sentences; she was my soul mate, my everything.
    We spoke 3-5x a week.
    NC had contacts she had made for a job in Canada.
    She was scared for NC, she knew she was trapped.
    Krista called her dad while he was on vacation, begging him to come home from the trip to go get Nancy-she needed him.
    While in HH, Nancy told her the marriage was over.
    Motive was reason for murder, I believe he murdered Nancy.
    BC never cleans home or never saw him do laundry. Has visited 5x since beginning of 2007, including March 08 for 5 days.

    Krista told Bella always asks...
    1-why mommy had to leave her?
    2-does mommy still love me?
    3-why do I have to speak to daddy, mommy's not there?
    4-can mommy see me?


    I have no children and prepared for long term.
    Jim has flexible hours and can work from home.
    Bella is in ballet and gymnastics.
    Dog is with friends in Niagara Falls, 8yrs old, St Bernard & Border Collie mix.
    I would like to change to phone from webcam because girls are having difficulties with webcam.
    When BC speaks to them he asks questions like…where are the dogs? Have you been outside? Etc

    Cross….

    Girls have NOT seen BC at all this week while in town. It was not in the court order.
    NC affair occurred in her 1st year of marriage.
    Brett Wilson is old boyfriend-NC was talking to him and had plans on meeting him upon arrival to Canada.
    BC was never inappropriate to girls.
    NC had $700 for trip.
    Sandlin…When do you think he should get the girls back?
    Krista….IMO he should never get the girls back…he'll be in JAIL!
    “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain~

  5. #5
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    Dr. Hilkey

    Dr. Hilkey testimony....

    Both psychologist's were low speaking and tended to turn to the judge everytime they answered a question so she would understand all the facts they were stating. It was hard to hear many of the explainations they gave.

    These 3 tests were done plus a few more. These were the ones I could hear since the attorneys would ask specific questions related to these.

    Millon™ Clinical Multiaxial Inventory
    Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory
    Personality Measures

    Hilkey said BC was....
    -a complex man in a complex situation
    -IQ was superior, 99% for IQ only 1% rated higher
    -anxious
    -harbors anger internal, can be expressed, directed to family members
    -can complete tasks
    -detached presence
    -direct to point
    -tunnel visioned
    -can use poor judgement
    -not suicidal
    -arrogant
    -narcissistic (Hilkey stated BC thinks he is superior to others)

    BC does have reason to be angry
    The affidavit by JWB confirmed narcissistic behavior-supported assessment


    Cross exam-extremely defensive on scale
    -you can expect BC to become more defensive with all this testing, depositions, court situation.
    -paranoia, BC feels plotted against
    -tests at different times will have different #'s
    -BC type of family is to be considered. Dad has PHD in Organic Chemisty, has a high achieving family, they have high expectations.
    -personal styles by family they come from they conform to
    -the score differences between the 2 Drs was anxiety he explained.
    -he accepted the fact his was done for the plaintiff's to cause BC to be more anxious
    “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain~

  6. #6
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    Dr Ghould

    Ghould's testimony...defendent witness

    Questions given by Sandlin to Dr Ghould
    1-Does BC display mental abnormalities? None
    2-Any risks to parent children? Not at risk
    3-Flight risk? No risk for child abduction
    4-Atypical emotion? No. Due to death of wife this is typical response.

    BC emotional experiences-withdraw, not overly expressive with emotion
    His behavior is consistant behavior now as prior to NC death

    In explaining scores he explains state vs traite.
    State=short term, currently
    Traite=long term

    BC state=showing fustration
    BC state high, traite low
    Dr Ghould explains he has never seen this before. It is total opposite. It always has traite as long term and the higher number, but BC is flipped.

    On BC rebuttal affidavit Dr Ghould asked for specific items to back what BC put on his affidavit. BC produced all of it. Cell bills, water bill dates, cc bills, etc.

    Is there any reason BC shouldn't get his children? Nothing on the testing I did shows he shouldn't.

    Wade Smith cross Ghould..

    Only SH would speak to you? Yes, he felt compelled to speak even after he found out about the affair of his wife and BC. He is still angry about it.
    SH did say BC will never be the father he is.
    SH stated BC was shocked about NC death.
    SH says BC shows no emotion.
    SH called BC + NC are in a marital contract.

    Did you interview NC family? Didn't feel like NC family interview would be helpful with exam-they are too biased.

    This was very simple testimony, much not heard, and for some reason Wade Smith didn't push too many questions.
    “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain~

  7. #7
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    Jessica

    JA 4th witness
    Just a few things to add since we have seen JA affidavit and it was all she was allowed to testify to.
    The 911 tape we all heard in public is edited.
    BC went to look for Carey at her job.
    I believe BC murdered Nancy. Why do you think that? Motive.

    Sandlin jumped up objecting to this. I am agasp your Honor you are allowing how much hearsay is allowed in this courtroom. This is all speculation!

    Sasser allowed it to be said and not stricken since it was in the affidavit and wanted to see where it was headed.

    Cross exam

    JA calendar was presented by Sandlin...
    JA had NC name to paint the 7th, 8th.
    Nothing on calendar to paint on the 12th.
    On the 13th JA was to help NC organize her home.

    Sandlin drilled her about how she had the plans for the 13th on the calendar, but not the 12th. JA said she had arranged the painting on the 11th to paint the 12th and failed to put it on the calendar.

    JA saw tension between NC & BC, but no arguing.
    On Wedn. the 9th...NC informed JA she would listen to BC and not rock the boat.
    “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain~

  8. #8
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    Mrs Rentz

    Mrs Rentz 7th witness

    Mrs Rentz was my toughest to hear. She is a quiet spoken women who is clearly showing the pain she is feeling no matter where she is, in the courtroom or outside of it. Every moment I was around her, elevator, restroom or hall she had her head hung. She would try to smile, but it was tough for her.

    Stubbs -Tell us aboout NC and what we need to know about her.
    DR-I LOVE HER DESPORATELY and begins to cry. I'm sorry DR she says because she is crying.
    Stubbs-thats alright we understand.
    DR-we shared the love for cooking. She was most like me

    This is all I got from that portion because her voice is so soft she is trying to compose herself also.

    Stubbs-tell us about the last day you were with NC
    DR-we had spent the night in Charlotte on Sat (Sheraton?), got up and went to brunch. We did some shopping. Then we all gathered to go to the airport. NC went with us. She had followe us from HH to Charlotte to see us off.
    At the airport Nancy began to cry hard when we had to leave. She was repeating I want to go with you, I want to come, but I can't because of the passports. It was tough leaving her like that. It was like pleading, begging us not to go.

    By this time Mrs. Rentz was trying to collect herself, but it was most hard for her as well as us listening to it.

    I have no notes on Sandlin cross. I don't know if I was trying to compose myself of Sandlin had nothing to say. This part is a blur for me.
    “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain~

  9. #9
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    Mt3K - thanks for your notes and sharing the info.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisincharlie View Post
    Mt3K - thanks for your notes and sharing the info.
    Hear hear!

    I am absolutely loving it - Thank you!


  11. #11
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    Yes, it is wonderful to have this here to refer to!! Many thanks!

  12. #12
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    I have 3 questions for you MT3K or SG.

    I know you both believe he is 100% guilty. Ignoring your feelings and what we have heard prior to the hearing, was there any evidence presented at the hearing that:

    1. Would make a person have a reasonable belief that he killed her? So someone sitting in the courtroom that had never heard of this case, would they leave with a rational and reasonable believe that BC murdered NC.

    2. Would show that his daughters would be in danger in his care, or that he was an unfit parent.

    And lastly, given just what you heard in the courtroom on Thursday (again, try ignoring your bias going into Thursday that you believe him to be 100% guilty), should BC be given custody of his 2 kids.


    I'm honestly looking for your opinions because I wasn't there. This isn't about whether your are right or wrong...I just want your opinion of these questions based solely on the testimony given Thursday.

  13. #13
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    Once I realized how lengthy my posts were I decided this was best for reference. I am trying to get a mod to remove my posts on 'custody hearing' since it won't let me remove them.

    Hopefully SG will add what she remembers that I might have missed.

    You're all welcome, I am happy I was able to attend as well as have SG join me.
    “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain~

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncsu95 View Post
    I have 3 questions for you MT3K or SG.

    I know you both believe he is 100% guilty. Ignoring your feelings and what we have heard prior to the hearing, was there any evidence presented at the hearing that:

    1. Would make a person have a reasonable belief that he killed her? So someone sitting in the courtroom that had never heard of this case, would they leave with a rational and reasonable believe that BC murdered NC.

    2. Would show that his daughters would be in danger in his care, or that he was an unfit parent.

    And lastly, given just what you heard in the courtroom on Thursday (again, try ignoring your bias going into Thursday that you believe him to be 100% guilty), should BC be given custody of his 2 kids.


    I'm honestly looking for your opinions because I wasn't there. This isn't about whether your are right or wrong...I just want your opinion of these questions based solely on the testimony given Thursday.
    I promise to get back to you on this...
    I want to finish with the few witnesses I have notes on. They are short so it won't be long and I will be happy to discuss my feelings on this.
    “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain~

  15. #15
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    Jim Lister

    Jim Lister…3rd witness
    Has no children, but prepared for long term obligation of parenting.
    Would like to ask the court to consider phone conversation instead of webcam.
    The girls have a tough time sitting still for 15 minutes.
    The girl's behavior was different before and after the webcam visit. Very hard to settle them down before and then afterwards.
    At times it goes over 15 minutes because of the time it takes for the girls to settle down to visit with BC via webcam.
    Video submitted to court is only some of the webcam visits, not all.
    Can work at home, work is flexible and can adjust accordingly as needed
    JL explained that NC and girls would be moving in with them upon arrival to Canada.
    They were preparing for this to occur.
    They had a room in the basement that NC could use as her bedroom or take the master bdr upstairs to be close to the girls. It was going to be her decision upon arrival. He was fine with what choice she made.


    Cross exam


    JL acknowledges he attended the visits between BC and his girl's, as well as the webcam visits.
    Sandlin…what occurs during the webcam visits between BC and the girl's?
    JL…they play tic, tac, toe
    BC reads them stories
    They color pictures
    Sandlin..have you given or sent any of this to BC from his girl's
    JL…No
    Sandlin…why not?
    JL…I just haven't
    Sandlin…so your telling me you don't think he should have them or want them, what is it?
    JL…I really don't know why. I just haven't done it.
    Sandlin..do the girl's love their dad in your opinion
    JL..yes

    JL then answers about where he and BC had the girl's on their visitation time, which has been posted.

    Somewhere at the end Sandlin asked about the girl's receiving anything from BC. I think, but not positive his answer was the girls have received 2 packages from him. The reason I am unsure is because I didn't hear her ask what was in the packages or dates received. I thought she would have elaborated on this…but didn't. Help me out SG...is this where you told me you didn't understand it either?
    “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain~

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